Bufcomments Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Yeah... If you think colluding with three buddy's is good sportsmanship. Better than working with 3 people you have never meet before. All I'm saying it worked out for the Heat. Will be more impressed if they win again next yr. Back to back titles and 3 finals in a row and we can start the dynasty talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) Better than working with 3 people you have never meet before. All I'm saying it worked out for the Heat. Will be more impressed if they win again next yr. Back to back titles and 3 finals in a row and we can start the dynasty talk. So it is okay to throw ethics out the window... As long as it works for you. And yes... I think it is an ethical question about how a team should be built. He is undermining the system in so many ways. Fair competition is comprimised. Wow... We really have lost our way if people can justify it. Edited June 24, 2012 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 So it is okay to throw ethics out the window... As long as it works for you. And yes... I think it is an ethical question about how a team should be built. He is undermining the system in so many ways. Fair competition is comprimised. Wow... We really have lost our way if people can justify it. I think he's a bit of a #%^# for what he did, and clueless if he didn't get what was wrong with how he did it. It's a tough balance to kill him for finding a way to win easier within the rules though. It's a game - you play to win. I enjoy it more when a guy does it the "right way" and the good guys win, but I can't totally heap hate on him for making the win quick choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I think he's a bit of a #%^# for what he did, and clueless if he didn't get what was wrong with how he did it. It's a tough balance to kill him for finding a way to win easier within the rules though. It's a game - you play to win. I enjoy it more when a guy does it the "right way" and the good guys win, but I can't totally heap hate on him for making the win quick choice. I feel kind of the same way. I'm glad that they lost last year and Lebron had to wade through a year of being the butt of countless 4th quarter melt-down jokes before finally being "crowned". I assume it taught him some humility and made him a less contemptible figure. He doesn't seem like a bad guy, but he did come off as a bit of a jerk-off putting on his infomercial and declaring he'd win 7 rings. Hopefully he learned a lesson from the backlash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I think he's a bit of a #%^# for what he did, and clueless if he didn't get what was wrong with how he did it. It's a tough balance to kill him for finding a way to win easier within the rules though. It's a game - you play to win. I enjoy it more when a guy does it the "right way" and the good guys win, but I can't totally heap hate on him for making the win quick choice. Win quick? Cleveland was making the finals... How long did it take MIA to FINALLY win with this combo? And if the Thunder didn't have their heads up their asses and the Bulls injured out in round 1... They would have hardly won at all! Oh, and mix in the NBA "sympathy script." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 So it is okay to throw ethics out the window... As long as it works for you. And yes... I think it is an ethical question about how a team should be built. He is undermining the system in so many ways. Fair competition is comprimised. Wow... We really have lost our way if people can justify it. You really think this is the first team players have done this? This has gone on long before lebron and will continue long after. Your Miami and lebron hate is clear but it's clouding your arguments. Do you really say they finally won a championship?! In year 2?!?! That's finally to you?!?! Let alone the fact they made the finals last year. It's cool you hate lebron... Hate and fandom are what drives sports but I ask you to just look at him now, last year humbled him mightily. So yes he might've been a douche for the decision but he learned from his mistake. Is it really fair to bash someone 2 years later? At what time can you move on from that? He's never been in trouble with the cops, he's not an absentee dad with tons of baby mamas, and he's not a dirty player. I'm a lakers fan as I've stated before and all bc of magic Johnson. His passing and joy were what drew me to them. Lebron does a lot of the same things but I still didn't like him. Thought he wasn't clutch, thought he was a douche for the decision, hated the idea of him joining up for the big3. All of it. This years playoffs though changed everything. He was amazing from game 6 against the clerics on and carried them after they were losing against the pacers. That wasn't the change though. His quotes were; " you've got to want it as bad as your next breath" showed a level of care I hadnt seen from him. "I joined up with these guys because I realized I had to to beat the celtics" showed a humbleness not only in reflection but in making the choice to begin with. Add it all to the fact that he was a humble and gracious winner I've done a 180 on the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 You really think this is the first team players have done this? This has gone on long before lebron and will continue long after. Your Miami and lebron hate is clear but it's clouding your arguments. Do you really say they finally won a championship?! In year 2?!?! That's finally to you?!?! Let alone the fact they made the finals last year. It's cool you hate lebron... Hate and fandom are what drives sports but I ask you to just look at him now, last year humbled him mightily. So yes he might've been a douche for the decision but he learned from his mistake. Is it really fair to bash someone 2 years later? At what time can you move on from that? He's never been in trouble with the cops, he's not an absentee dad with tons of baby mamas, and he's not a dirty player. I'm a lakers fan as I've stated before and all bc of magic Johnson. His passing and joy were what drew me to them. Lebron does a lot of the same things but I still didn't like him. Thought he wasn't clutch, thought he was a douche for the decision, hated the idea of him joining up for the big3. All of it. This years playoffs though changed everything. He was amazing from game 6 against the clerics on and carried them after they were losing against the pacers. That wasn't the change though. His quotes were; " you've got to want it as bad as your next breath" showed a level of care I hadnt seen from him. "I joined up with these guys because I realized I had to to beat the celtics" showed a humbleness not only in reflection but in making the choice to begin with. Add it all to the fact that he was a humble and gracious winner I've done a 180 on the guy. I always liked Lebron, and always thought, for his age, he was pretty mature. I liked initially, though, because he was an elite talent, playing for a miserable franchise in Cleveland. The fact that he was from the Cleveland/Ohio area made his success all the more appealing to me. As long as he wasn't playing my team, I had no problem rooting for him. For a young kid, growing up in public, I rarely saw him embarrass himself, or his city. "The Decision" was a huge PR blunder, granted...and I think he realizes that now. I root against him, because his in Miami...as a Bills fan, my hatred for the Miami Dolphins is so ingrained, it has made me always root against all Florida teams, any sport, any level. I would guarantee, if Lebron had gone about leaving the Cavs, in exactly the same fashion, and had gone to, say, the Lakers, perception of him would be much different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Win quick? Cleveland was making the finals... How long did it take MIA to FINALLY win with this combo? And if the Thunder didn't have their heads up their asses and the Bulls injured out in round 1... They would have hardly won at all! Oh, and mix in the NBA "sympathy script." So what your saying is going to Miami wasn't the quick way? Really? I always liked Lebron, and always thought, for his age, he was pretty mature. I liked initially, though, because he was an elite talent, playing for a miserable franchise in Cleveland. The fact that he was from the Cleveland/Ohio area made his success all the more appealing to me. As long as he wasn't playing my team, I had no problem rooting for him. For a young kid, growing up in public, I rarely saw him embarrass himself, or his city. "The Decision" was a huge PR blunder, granted...and I think he realizes that now. I root against him, because his in Miami...as a Bills fan, my hatred for the Miami Dolphins is so ingrained, it has made me always root against all Florida teams, any sport, any level. I would guarantee, if Lebron had gone about leaving the Cavs, in exactly the same fashion, and had gone to, say, the Lakers, perception of him would be much different. The lakers might be the one team that got him a pass - here's why... The hatred isn't just about screwing Cleveland. It's about throwing away every fans dream of growing up and saving the home team. The one thing that might've saved him is the shear volume of people that are into the icon of the lakers. Going to Miami felt cheap, going to a storied franchise atleast a fan could sell himself a storyline about the 8 year old in the driveway taking the last shot and pretending to be magic, or Kareem or.... You get it. he destroyed that connection to the child-like fan in us. Even if it's not our own team Or sport I think we can all relate to that dream. He killed a rare shot to watch it, with a 60 minute special. Edited June 25, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 So what your saying is going to Miami wasn't the quick way? Really? The way he was making it out to be... He should have won the first year there... Not for it to take a fluke and a lock-out year. I will reserve givinig him praise until he can do it during a real season and playoffs that the best teams do not fall by the wayside to injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 The lakers might be the one team that got him a pass - here's why... The hatred isn't just about screwing Cleveland. It's about throwing away every fans dream of growing up and saving the home team. The one thing that might've saved him is the shear volume of people that are into the icon of the lakers. Going to Miami felt cheap, going to a storied franchise atleast a fan could sell himself a storyline about the 8 year old in the driveway taking the last shot and pretending to be magic, or Kareem or.... You get it. he destroyed that connection to the child-like fan in us. Even if it's not our own team Or sport I think we can all relate to that dream. He killed a rare shot to watch it, with a 60 minute special. You said what I was getting at, in a much better way. Great post. Now, there is a strange situation developing in Boston. Rumor seems to be that the C's are pretty confident that KG will come back, and play one more year for them...they would like to bring Ray Allen back as well. Here is where I hate sports in the modern era: Allen is likely not playing a lot more years. The Heat, and he, are rumored to have mutual interest. As a Celtics fan, I would hate to see him go to Miami...anywhere but Miami...even the Lakers would be easier to accept. Allen was so eloquent, after the last game of the ECF, on why it was such an honor to be a Celtic. But, it is also no secret, he was not happy coming off the bench late last season...although, from the team pov, it made perfect sense. He was not playing 100% healthy, and Aver Bradley was playing great in his place. Allen has got to know, returning to the Celtics will feel nice, but going to Miami would increase his chances of another championship tremendously. Not sure what team could/would offer him more money...but he lives in Miami off-season, with a sick kid. For me, this is where the question of being a player of the fan, rather than the uniform they wear comes into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 A lot of mock drafts have Andrew Nicholson going to the Celtics. If that happens, I will finally be all in on the Celtics. Something that I never could do even during the Bird years, because of my lingering hate of them from the Braves rivalry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) A lot of mock drafts have Andrew Nicholson going to the Celtics. If that happens, I will finally be all in on the Celtics. Something that I never could do even during the Bird years, because of my lingering hate of them from the Braves rivalry. That would be cool, a Bonnie guy playing for the Celtics! I remember my dad flipping out, about 10 years ago, about JR Bremer not getting drafted...was thrilled when the Celtics signed him. IIRC (those were bad years for the Celtics) he had pretty solid couple of seasons in Boston, then bounced around the league a few years ago...I think he went to Europe...could still be there for all I know. Thing I hate about the NBA draft, as opposed to the NFL, many teams don't keep their 1st round pick..so the Celtics could likely draft Ncholson, and turn around and trade him for a vet the next day. Haven't seen a ton of him, just during the tournament...but he has some great offensive skills. Good size. Edited June 28, 2012 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) The hatred isn't just about screwing Cleveland. It's about throwing away every fans dream of growing up and saving the home team. The one thing that might've saved him is the shear volume of people that are into the icon of the lakers. Going to Miami felt cheap, going to a storied franchise atleast a fan could sell himself a storyline about the 8 year old in the driveway taking the last shot and pretending to be magic, or Kareem or.... You get it. he destroyed that connection to the child-like fan in us. Even if it's not our own team Or sport I think we can all relate to that dream. He killed a rare shot to watch it, with a 60 minute special. your dream not his. He had no responsibility to you. . Cleveland was a dead end team in a dead end town. They couldn't recruit anyone good enough to fill out a championship roster. With lebron they were in the finals, without one of the worst teams in the league. He was dying a slow death there. ALMOST NO MAJOR STAR IN ANY TEAM SPORT PLAYS FOR THEIR HOME TEAM. By your reasoning then you must worship Carmelo Anthony for coming back to NY to play for the Knicks. Go Knicks in 2013, woo hoo !! Edited June 28, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 That would be cool, a Bonnie guy playing for the Celtics! I remember my dad flipping out, about 10 years ago, about JR Bremer not getting drafted...was thrilled when the Celtics signed him. IIRC (those were bad years for the Celtics) he had pretty solid couple of seasons in Boston, then bounced around the league a few years ago...I think he went to Europe...could still be there for all I know. Thing I hate about the NBA draft, as opposed to the NFL, many teams don't keep their 1st round pick..so the Celtics could likely draft Ncholson, and turn around and trade him for a vet the next day. Haven't seen a ton of him, just during the tournament...but he has some great offensive skills. Good size. Yeah, JR actually made the All Rookie team. Had a really good 2nd half of that rookie season and started for the Celts. I think he only played another year for them, played for his hometown Cavs a little and probably still is in Europe, like you said. I think Nicholson has so much upside. He's nowhere near his potential. Not only does he have the size your talking about, he's got the biggest hands in the draft and I believe the biggest wingspan. I keep thinking he can be in the mold of Kevin McHale, because his low posts moves are so great (and now they won't be with three guys on him). And, he's got great touch from both the inside and outside......He's been tweating that he's working on a skyhook and I have no idea why nobody has really done that since Kareem. That is unstoppable..........I think teams would be stupid to pick Fab Melo in front of him. Melo is going to be a headache and doesn't have Andrew's skills on offense. Andrew is super smart and a great person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Was it "The Decision" that pissed everyone off or was it his choice? If he did "The Decision" and chose to stay in Cleveland no one would've been angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Was it "The Decision" that pissed everyone off or was it his choice? If he did "The Decision" and chose to stay in Cleveland no one would've been angry. Uh...not to be rude, but "duh!" Lebron put the Cavs on the NBA map, they did everything they could, to get him to stay, and he made a prime-time special out of snubbing them. At that point, Miami never had him...so the feelings against him "snubbing" Miami would be minimal. Yeah, JR actually made the All Rookie team. Had a really good 2nd half of that rookie season and started for the Celts. I think he only played another year for them, played for his hometown Cavs a little and probably still is in Europe, like you said. I think Nicholson has so much upside. He's nowhere near his potential. Not only does he have the size your talking about, he's got the biggest hands in the draft and I believe the biggest wingspan. I keep thinking he can be in the mold of Kevin McHale, because his low posts moves are so great (and now they won't be with three guys on him). And, he's got great touch from both the inside and outside......He's been tweating that he's working on a skyhook and I have no idea why nobody has really done that since Kareem. That is unstoppable..........I think teams would be stupid to pick Fab Melo in front of him. Melo is going to be a headache and doesn't have Andrew's skills on offense. Andrew is super smart and a great person. Okay, paranoia setting in. Celtics rumored to be trying hard to trade up to get Doc Rivers's son, out of Duke. C's don't have enough to offer for a pick that high. Then, today, I see that Doc is set to do color during the Olympics. Now, remember, Doc almost retired 2 seasons ago, to spend time watching his son. Then, out of the blue he re-ups with the Celtics. My theory, he wanted to stick it out, hoping, somehow to get his son. If that doesn't work out (and it likely won't) he will urge Ainge to bring Garnett and Allen back, and coach them one more season, before resigning. Then, he will do color for ABC or TNT for a season, and wind up coaching whatever team his son is on, for the 2014-15 season. Mark my words! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Cleveland fans are gonna LOVE Dion Waiters! He's a hell of a player! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 The Decision was the issue. There was totally no chance he was gonna stay in Cleveland. Even if he did, yes it could have been tolerated... BUT to do that to your HOMETOWN is deplorable. The dude has not an ounce of class. Like sh*tting on a flag os what he did. Does Dion have class? Is he honorable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 The Decision was the issue. There was totally no chance he was gonna stay in Cleveland. Even if he did, yes it could have been tolerated... BUT to do that to your HOMETOWN is deplorable. The dude has not an ounce of class. Like sh*tting on a flag os what he did. Does Dion have class? Is he honorable? Like he had a choice? He did what Stern told him to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 your dream not his. He had no responsibility to you. . Cleveland was a dead end team in a dead end town. They couldn't recruit anyone good enough to fill out a championship roster. With lebron they were in the finals, without one of the worst teams in the league. He was dying a slow death there. ALMOST NO MAJOR STAR IN ANY TEAM SPORT PLAYS FOR THEIR HOME TEAM. By your reasoning then you must worship Carmelo Anthony for coming back to NY to play for the Knicks. Go Knicks in 2013, woo hoo !! Clearly I hate him for not fulfilling his debts to me. You are spot in with your insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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