NCDOT Bridge on the jboyst62 farm (updated with pictures)

[Fan in San Diego]

Feel free to PM me, anyone, who wants to know more about farming, where to find beef; I am going to find that thread mead made about me paying for people if they buy grassfed beef somewhere.

 

Thanks for the info. I will PM you later on when I get closer to making the leap on buying a farm and cows. I would contact a lawyer to argue your business loss. I am involved now in a lawsuit where lost revenue is part of the claim. You have to have a lawyer to argue this in court, meaning you have to sue whoever over this point and you will get paid eventually.

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

totally random change of subject but do you offer any of your stuff for sale? Im pretty sure I remember a thread or two you may have made that offered some of youre produce but I cant remember if it was a one time thing or not. I'm a huge steak fan and I recently was given a smoker for my birthday so I'm even more interested in different kinds of meat and the cooking possibilities. If you do sell stuff online or would be willing to make a sale shoot me a pm id sure love to give the business to someone who actually farms themselves and also happens to be a Bills fan. I mean its gotta be better than the stuff I can get from Kroger right!

[boyst]

totally random change of subject but do you offer any of your stuff for sale? Im pretty sure I remember a thread or two you may have made that offered some of youre produce but I cant remember if it was a one time thing or not. I'm a huge steak fan and I recently was given a smoker for my birthday so I'm even more interested in different kinds of meat and the cooking possibilities. If you do sell stuff online or would be willing to make a sale shoot me a pm id sure love to give the business to someone who actually farms themselves and also happens to be a Bills fan. I mean its gotta be better than the stuff I can get from Kroger right!

If you, or anyone else, can find some local grassfed beef in your area that has ground beef/burger for sale, I will pay for you to purchase it if you send/show me the receipt and your address. It will be no more then $10 for the ground beef, but it will be enough to get you hooked. The steaks are so varyiable that I would not refer anyone to a producer without having tasted their steaks first.

 

Perhaps someone with better forum searching ability can pull it up; someone started a thread about it - I am pretty sure it was Mead, bumping or linking it here might help. I couldn't find it.

[Just Jack]

Perhaps someone with better forum searching ability can pull it up; someone started a thread about it - I am pretty sure it was Mead, bumping or linking it here might help. I couldn't find it.

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/143454-jboy-will-pay-you-for-your-meat

[boyst]

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/143454-jboy-will-pay-you-for-your-meat

I kept searching for it, "meat," and all I kept getting was your avatar. I had tried searching meat, honestly but It would come back as not enough to search.

[Just Jack]

I kept searching for it, "meat," and all I kept getting was your avatar. I had tried searching meat, honestly but It would come back as not enough to search.

You do realize I have the power to ban you?

 

All I did was go to Meads profile and clicked on "Find My Content". Then in the drop box on the right side of the page I selected, "View All Topics Mead107 Has Started", then clicked on Update. It was the 8th one down the list.

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

Because North Carolina does not recognize the term "loss of business" and "injury to business" I was told that I will will be unable to receive money from NCDOT or the state government for losing this. However, NC DOT does recognize "damages." Damages are how the state damages the business of a business; that is, a study will have to be done to determine if I am eligible for recovering money lost to "damages." Yeah, exactly...what?! Basically, it is all legal nomenclature for bend over.

 

I would welcome any one who feels that they can provide advice to the subject.

 

I try to avoid sticking my nose in other people's business, but you specifically asked, and I was curious about how the eminent domain process works in North Carolina. I don't claim any particular experience or education in my posts, so you'll have to draw your own conclusions about whether I have a clue what I'm talking about. Let's just say that I have a high regard for how hard family farmers typically work to make a living, and you are a fellow Bills fan, so FWIW, here goes.

 

First, I'm unclear whether you are concerned only about the economic impact of the 3 year construction project,

or the economic impact after the construction is completed, too.

 

It sounds like you've put a lot of effort into trying to get a good outcome at the VAD's public hearing. That strikes me as smart, but if I understand correctly, the VAD only has the power to make recommendations to the NCDOT, and cannot force them to do anything. In any event, the VAD has issued its report, and the ball is now in NCDOT's court to determine the feasibility of the 3 alternatives that the VAD asked NCDOT to evaluate.

 

If you find the "tunnel style cattle crossing" a satisfactory outcome, I hope the NCDOT chooses it, but it certainly sounds like the most expensive option for NCDOT, so I'm not optimistic that NCDOT will build one.

 

If NCDOT doesn't change course and take action acceptable to you, you need to understand your legal options. I did a little google searching, and found a pretty detailed description in fairly plain everyday language about how the eminent domain process works in North Carolina:

 

http://www.smithdebnamlaw.com/articles/holy-cow-they-can-take-my-land

 

Shifting gears to another issue, I'm not sure that you have a clear understanding of how the "just compensation" that you are legally entitled to receive will be calculated. The portion of your post reproduced above seems inconsistent with the following statement in the published VAD report:

 

After multiple questions from the Board and responses from NC DOT representatives, there appeared to be no legal provision to compensate the Boyst farm for a loss of income during the construction period.

 

I agree with you that there's a lot of legal mumbo jumbo involved, but to get the best possible outcome for your family you need to understand the "just compensation" issue. So I did a little more google searching to see if I could find anything that might be helpful in explaining what the components of "just compensation" can include North Carolina.

 

Here's a North Carolina Supreme Court case from 2006 that explains how "just compensation" should be calculated when NCDOT takes part of someone's land:

 

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/nc-supreme-court/1069021.html

 

When DOT condemns only part of a tract of land, just compensation consists of the difference between the fair market value of the entire tract immediately before the taking (“before value”) and the fair market value of the land remaining immediately after the taking (“after value”).   Id. § 136-112(1).

 

 Although Chapter 136 offers no guidance on the calculation of fair market value, this Court has recognized:

 

[T]he well established rule is that in determining fair market value the essential inquiry is, “what is the property worth in the market, viewed not merely with reference to the uses to which it is at the time applied, but with reference to the uses to which it is plainly adapted-that is to say, what is it worth from its availability for all valuable uses?”

 

Note that if NCDOT merely offers you only the fair market value of 1.7 acres of agricultural land in your area, that MIGHT be a lowball offer - - it depends on several factors. I don't think you ever said how many total acres your farm has, but if you follow the 3 acre per cow metric you mentioned and have 50 head of cattle, that sounds like about 150 acres pre-taking. "Just compensation" requires that NCDOT pay you not just for the 1.7 acres that they actually take outright, but also for any reduction in the market value of the remaining 148.3 acres that results from the planned construction.

 

Hypothetically, let's say that if no tunnel-style cattle crossing is built, the construction makes access more difficult (or eliminates it) to a 40 acre pasture. If that reduces the market value of that 40 acre tract, then NCDOT has to pay you not just the full value of the 1.7 acres they take outright, but also for the reduction in market value of the 40 acre pasture that the construction permanently affects. OTOH, it sounds like your land is already split by an existing bridge, so it's not clear to me if access to land on the far side of the new bridge will be any more difficult (after the 3 year construction project is finished) than it is now.

 

An important factor in arriving at "just compensation" is figuring out what the "highest and best use" of your land is. Even if you have no plans to use any part of your current land for anything but cattle farming, you MIGHT have an argument that some or all of your land is currently worth more than typical farm land if it is suitable, pre-NCDOT construction, for other future uses. For example, if you are in the path of future residential development, and the NCDOT construction makes some of your land less desireable for future residential development, that is something NCDOT should pay for. I don't know what land near your farm might be used for in the future, but because you mentioned that the construction project will impact a nearby fire station, it makes me wonder if you are in the path of suburban development rather than way out in the boonies.

 

Alternatively, does the nearby railroad make your acreage suitable for a future factory or warehouse project? Any aspects of your land that might make it suitable for future development (pre-NCDOT construction) as something other than a farm can work to your advantage in getting a higher "just compensation" award from NCDOT, IF the NCDOT construction negatively affects such suitability. I think there are some situations in which a partial taking actually increases the value of the remaining land - - so picking the brains of a knowledgeable local real estate agent or appraiser about how the planned construction will impact the value of your remaining land (up or down) might be useful.

 

Here's an extreme example of how the pre-construction suitability of farmland for other uses can be used to get higher compensation when the government takes a portion of it (example is for Iowa farmland especially well-suited for non-agricultural uses, but principles are similar):

 

http://www.condemnation-law.com/blog/articles-on-case-evaluations/2562/eminent-domain-case-evaluation-low-ball-offer-made-to-a-property-owner-in-north-central-iowa/

 

Even if you don't want to file a lawsuit to get more compensation than what NCDOT will eventually offer, you will be in a much better position to negotiate a better deal from NCDOT if you know exactly what you can threaten to do in the courts if necessary. But if you ARE willing to deal with the hassle of filing suit to try to get more compensation from NCDOT, you might be able to retain a lawyer to handle your case on a contingency fee basis. I know nothing else about them, so I can't recommend that you retain or avoid them, but there are lawyers who will calculate their contingency fee on the amount of any increase they can get you (i.e., the lawyer takes no part of the NCDOT's initial compensation deposit):

 

http://www.sigmonclark.com/PracticeAreas/Eminent-Domain-Land-Condemnation.asp

 

http://www.kurtzandblum.com/CM/Custom/TOCLandCondemnation.asp

 

Finally, a few other on-line sources of info about the eminent domain process in North Carolina:

 

http://deondarzasimmons.com/eminent-domain-condemnors-deposit-and-your-answer/

 

http://www.tfmattorneys.com/durham-eminent-domain-attorneys

 

http://www.manningfulton.com/professionals/john-b-mcmillan

 

Hope this helps - - Good luck!

 

NCDOT ----- boooo

 

BN Acres -- moooo

[boyst]

I try to avoid sticking my nose in other people's business, but you specifically asked, and I was curious about how the eminent domain process works in North Carolina. I don't claim any particular experience or education in my posts, so you'll have to draw your own conclusions about whether I have a clue what I'm talking about. Let's just say that I have a high regard for how hard family farmers typically work to make a living, and you are a fellow Bills fan, so FWIW, here goes.

 

First, I'm unclear whether you are concerned only about the economic impact of the 3 year construction project,

or the economic impact after the construction is completed, too.

 

It sounds like you've put a lot of effort into trying to get a good outcome at the VAD's public hearing. That strikes me as smart, but if I understand correctly, the VAD only has the power to make recommendations to the NCDOT, and cannot force them to do anything. In any event, the VAD has issued its report, and the ball is now in NCDOT's court to determine the feasibility of the 3 alternatives that the VAD asked NCDOT to evaluate.

 

If you find the "tunnel style cattle crossing" a satisfactory outcome, I hope the NCDOT chooses it, but it certainly sounds like the most expensive option for NCDOT, so I'm not optimistic that NCDOT will build one.

 

If NCDOT doesn't change course and take action acceptable to you, you need to understand your legal options. I did a little google searching, and found a pretty detailed description in fairly plain everyday language about how the eminent domain process works in North Carolina:

 

http://www.smithdebnamlaw.com/articles/holy-cow-they-can-take-my-land

 

Shifting gears to another issue, I'm not sure that you have a clear understanding of how the "just compensation" that you are legally entitled to receive will be calculated. The portion of your post reproduced above seems inconsistent with the following statement in the published VAD report:

 

 

 

I agree with you that there's a lot of legal mumbo jumbo involved, but to get the best possible outcome for your family you need to understand the "just compensation" issue. So I did a little more google searching to see if I could find anything that might be helpful in explaining what the components of "just compensation" can include North Carolina.

 

Here's a North Carolina Supreme Court case from 2006 that explains how "just compensation" should be calculated when NCDOT takes part of someone's land:

 

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/nc-supreme-court/1069021.html

 

 

 

Note that if NCDOT merely offers you only the fair market value of 1.7 acres of agricultural land in your area, that MIGHT be a lowball offer - - it depends on several factors. I don't think you ever said how many total acres your farm has, but if you follow the 3 acre per cow metric you mentioned and have 50 head of cattle, that sounds like about 150 acres pre-taking. "Just compensation" requires that NCDOT pay you not just for the 1.7 acres that they actually take outright, but also for any reduction in the market value of the remaining 148.3 acres that results from the planned construction.

 

Hypothetically, let's say that if no tunnel-style cattle crossing is built, the construction makes access more difficult (or eliminates it) to a 40 acre pasture. If that reduces the market value of that 40 acre tract, then NCDOT has to pay you not just the full value of the 1.7 acres they take outright, but also for the reduction in market value of the 40 acre pasture that the construction permanently affects. OTOH, it sounds like your land is already split by an existing bridge, so it's not clear to me if access to land on the far side of the new bridge will be any more difficult (after the 3 year construction project is finished) than it is now.

 

An important factor in arriving at "just compensation" is figuring out what the "highest and best use" of your land is. Even if you have no plans to use any part of your current land for anything but cattle farming, you MIGHT have an argument that some or all of your land is currently worth more than typical farm land if it is suitable, pre-NCDOT construction, for other future uses. For example, if you are in the path of future residential development, and the NCDOT construction makes some of your land less desireable for future residential development, that is something NCDOT should pay for. I don't know what land near your farm might be used for in the future, but because you mentioned that the construction project will impact a nearby fire station, it makes me wonder if you are in the path of suburban development rather than way out in the boonies.

 

Alternatively, does the nearby railroad make your acreage suitable for a future factory or warehouse project? Any aspects of your land that might make it suitable for future development (pre-NCDOT construction) as something other than a farm can work to your advantage in getting a higher "just compensation" award from NCDOT, IF the NCDOT construction negatively affects such suitability. I think there are some situations in which a partial taking actually increases the value of the remaining land - - so picking the brains of a knowledgeable local real estate agent or appraiser about how the planned construction will impact the value of your remaining land (up or down) might be useful.

 

Here's an extreme example of how the pre-construction suitability of farmland for other uses can be used to get higher compensation when the government takes a portion of it (example is for Iowa farmland especially well-suited for non-agricultural uses, but principles are similar):

 

http://www.condemnation-law.com/blog/articles-on-case-evaluations/2562/eminent-domain-case-evaluation-low-ball-offer-made-to-a-property-owner-in-north-central-iowa/

 

Even if you don't want to file a lawsuit to get more compensation than what NCDOT will eventually offer, you will be in a much better position to negotiate a better deal from NCDOT if you know exactly what you can threaten to do in the courts if necessary. But if you ARE willing to deal with the hassle of filing suit to try to get more compensation from NCDOT, you might be able to retain a lawyer to handle your case on a contingency fee basis. I know nothing else about them, so I can't recommend that you retain or avoid them, but there are lawyers who will calculate their contingency fee on the amount of any increase they can get you (i.e., the lawyer takes no part of the NCDOT's initial compensation deposit):

 

http://www.sigmonclark.com/PracticeAreas/Eminent-Domain-Land-Condemnation.asp

 

http://www.kurtzandblum.com/CM/Custom/TOCLandCondemnation.asp

 

Finally, a few other on-line sources of info about the eminent domain process in North Carolina:

 

http://deondarzasimmons.com/eminent-domain-condemnors-deposit-and-your-answer/

 

http://www.tfmattorneys.com/durham-eminent-domain-attorneys

 

http://www.manningfulton.com/professionals/john-b-mcmillan

 

Hope this helps - - Good luck!

 

NCDOT ----- boooo

 

BN Acres -- moooo

Wow. I mean wow! The effort you put forth in this is amazing! Thank you!

 

These links are great! We are still waiting on any type of response by the DOT. The VAD is a great service that we can use as leverage, although, so far there is no precedence as to a similar case in recent history. For now we can only hope for the best.

 

Otherwise, I have prepared a rough draft on a financial impact statement and begun brainstorming on writing letters to media outlets for awareness.

[boyst]

Finally got ahold of the NCDOT response to the Vol. Agricultural District.

 

They shot down the tunnel idea. That leaves two choices recommended and it's just amazing the one they chose. Instead of allowing temporary fencing around and through the construction zone they are proposing I let the cows cross the road.

 

"Based on the proposed grade of Turner Road , it appears that a temporary at-grade cattle crossing will be allowed on Turner Road between station 32+00 and station 34+00.

Warning signs for the cattle crossing and fence gates will be installed as part of this project. Once the new bridge carrying Turner Road over the North Carolina Railroad is

completed, the at-grade cattle crossing and warning signs will be removed, and the farm can again move cattle between the two pastures by crossing under Turner Road ."

 

Which is great. However, I contacted a fellow NCDOT department, the State Highway Patrol for their feelings. I was told this:

 

§ 20‑174.1. Standing, sitting or lying upon highways or streets prohibited.

 

 

(a) No person shall willfully stand, sit, or lie upon the highway or street in such a manner as to impede the regular flow of traffic.

 

 

(b) Violation of this section is a Class 2 misdemeanor. (1965, c. 137; 1969, c. 1012; 1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 761, s. 17.)

 

So, the NCDOT is proposing something that even the NCDOT knows is illegal. However, upon further discussion, I was told I would be allowed to walk my cattle across the road in a similar fashion as domestic animals are allowed to cross public roads so long as I do not impede traffic.

[boyst]

Eat my beef!

[DrDawkinstein]

Nice work, jboyst! I dont have as much to add as others, but I got my screen name from my first initial and last name too!

[The Poojer]

Your last name is Rdareustein?? :-)

 

Nice work, jboyst! I dont have as much to add as others, but I got my screen name from my first initial and last name too!

[DrDawkinstein]

Your last name is Rdareustein?? :-)

 

I think it's Italian!

[K-9]

And all this time I thought the moniker, J BOYS T, was some kind of hip gansta-rap thing. Oh well, Mr. Boyst it is then.

[boyst]

And all this time I thought the moniker, J BOYS T, was some kind of hip gansta-rap thing. Oh well, Mr. Boyst it is then.

I prefer Ice J Coolio-B oys-t-flopizzle.

[The Poojer]

Jesus...we always ask for 'pics', we finally get one and THIS is what we get???? F*** me!!!!!

[BRAWNDO]

http://imgur.com/sPWr8

 

happy? girlfriend and I split, taking time apart - too much happening in both of our lives right now. may get back together. went out with that girl over weekend - lots of fun and only 5'1"

 

 

:worthy:

[Beerball]

Eat my beef!

Nicely done!

[LeviF]

F*** me!!!!!

At least buy the guy a drink first. Criminy

[Jim in Anchorage]

At least buy the guy a drink first. Criminy

No drinks. Then we get" revealing " photos.