Fan in San Diego Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I'll share the story just to bore you people...although, I think many of you enjoy the farm stories from your fancy high rises and Mercedes-Benz (saying that in a ridiculing and mocking voice from my rocking chair whittling wood). Work started for them at 7:00 (brother and I up at 6ish to lay out the work). I began boring holes with an auger on a T180 then walking posts to eat hole. Brother and 4 Mexicans follow tamping in posts to make them secure. If you do not pack the dirt around them the posts will be easily pushed out and will break much earlier versus a good post can last 40 years. The posts are 3 1/2' in the ground 5" above, 5-6" around. Anyway, takes about half the day getting all the posts run, then put up 4 lines of barb wire - the posts must also be as straight in line as possible to allow the strongest structure - linear tension. So, this in the middle of August, we take 45 minutes for lunch giving them pizza. We finish the fence, maybe 1/4 mile in length, by 4:30. Nothing too crazy (I am putting up about the same length by myself in a pretty heavily wooded area alone right now). We then move on to work on patching some fences while we have the help and since a cow has been getting out. We get that done it's nearly 6 and go to get that cow back in. We keep them out there in the woods, briars, creek, muck, swamp, etc, helping them round up this cow for at least two hours. I have been drug 100 yards with my hand caught in a lariat around a 900 lbs steer, I have ran marathons, I have been to one of the hardest wrestling camps in the country, and I have spent an hour with Beerball...I can handle a lot. The running in the woods, through briars, a creek, all that mentioned previously was hell. Getting smacked by sticks, having a cow that has been wound up, and Mexicans that barely speak English was extremely hard. Those guys were in their car headed home by 8:30 that night. My brother and I cleaned up tools and such until 10ish. It is not unheard of for the two of us to work until 4 am when he is at the farm. That's a long day for sure. The guys I had on my ranch worked full time for me and lived on the ranch and only worked 8 hours a day but man they work hard for those 8 hours. How many feet apart did you put the posts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I'll share the story just to bore you people...although, I think many of you enjoy the farm stories from your fancy high rises and Mercedes-Benz (saying that in a ridiculing and mocking voice from my rocking chair whittling wood). Work started for them at 7:00 (brother and I up at 6ish to lay out the work). I began boring holes with an auger on a T180 then walking posts to eat hole. Brother and 4 Mexicans follow tamping in posts to make them secure. If you do not pack the dirt around them the posts will be easily pushed out and will break much earlier versus a good post can last 40 years. The posts are 3 1/2' in the ground 5" above, 5-6" around. Anyway, takes about half the day getting all the posts run, then put up 4 lines of barb wire - the posts must also be as straight in line as possible to allow the strongest structure - linear tension. So, this in the middle of August, we take 45 minutes for lunch giving them pizza. We finish the fence, maybe 1/4 mile in length, by 4:30. Nothing too crazy (I am putting up about the same length by myself in a pretty heavily wooded area alone right now). We then move on to work on patching some fences while we have the help and since a cow has been getting out. We get that done it's nearly 6 and go to get that cow back in. We keep them out there in the woods, briars, creek, muck, swamp, etc, helping them round up this cow for at least two hours. I have been drug 100 yards with my hand caught in a lariat around a 900 lbs steer, I have ran marathons, I have been to one of the hardest wrestling camps in the country, and I have spent an hour with Beerball...I can handle a lot. The running in the woods, through briars, a creek, all that mentioned previously was hell. Getting smacked by sticks, having a cow that has been wound up, and Mexicans that barely speak English was extremely hard. Those guys were in their car headed home by 8:30 that night. My brother and I cleaned up tools and such until 10ish. It is not unheard of for the two of us to work until 4 am when he is at the farm. Fences? FENCES? What about free-range grass feed? I heard that tastes better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 Fences? FENCES? What about free-range grass feed? I heard that tastes better! Funny if you remember how much my cows were getting out last year That's a long day for sure. The guys I had on my ranch worked full time for me and lived on the ranch and only worked 8 hours a day but man they work hard for those 8 hours. How many feet apart did you put the posts? 14' on average, some places 12' others 16'. I use a mixture of barb and high tensile. My land isn't flat enough to go the 50' stretches without a post. Plus, it looks tacky and is weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 jboyst, I am not aware of anything similar in the works for NC, but VA just changed its law to include lost profits in the calculation of "just compensation" in eminent domain cases: http://www.williamsmullen.com/news/major-changes-virginia-eminent-domain-law-horizon (see description of proposed change at item # 4) http://www.thelandlawyers.com/blog/eminent-domain/ (documenting VA voter passage by 3-1 margin with support from VA Farm Bureau) Sorry it's not better news - - at least it shows that the public of a neighboring state favors allowing recovery of lost profits in your kind of dispute - - but that's scant comfort for you. Is the farm lobby stronger in VA than in NC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 jboyst, I am not aware of anything similar in the works for NC, but VA just changed its law to include lost profits in the calculation of "just compensation" in eminent domain cases: http://www.williamsm...ain-law-horizon (see description of proposed change at item # 4) http://www.thelandla...eminent-domain/ (documenting VA voter passage by 3-1 margin with support from VA Farm Bureau) Sorry it's not better news - - at least it shows that the public of a neighboring state favors allowing recovery of lost profits in your kind of dispute - - but that's scant comfort for you. Is the farm lobby stronger in VA than in NC? I had asked around today, and looked around on the interwebs. The just compensation is so discretionary that it is scary. If you use a bureaucratic definition then it is a few dimes, if you use a logical definition it is a dollar, but if you look in to what it entails you could end up with five bucks. Putting the lost profits in to the equation, wow. That is scary and reminds me of a joke I have told before. A farmer goes to the car lot to buy himself a new truck. He spends his time looking around and taking his time and a salesmen approaches. The salesmen shows him a lot of great trucks but takes him to an amazing truck. This truck is just like the other models when you look at it, so the farmer asks what the price is for the truck. The salesmen says $84,414. The farmer is baffled, the other trucks he just saw were $50ish. The salesmen sees the look upon the man and states "this truck has the latest 24 valve 8.2 litre diesel engine that had to be regulated, you know because the EPA said it had to be 'clean." The farmer just kept looking around the truck, stopping on the tires. "Those there are all terrain, you won't get stuck anywhere, this is 4 wheel drive." The farmer looks inside, "all leather, those seats are heated, there are cup holders here, automatic transmission, power everything." The farmer turns to him and asks is that what makes it so expensive? The salesmen says "no, that is what makes it comfortable, it's a great truck, better then any of the others he's seen today. The base models are more affordable, but they do not have what you want." The farmer just looks puzzled, and scratches his head. The salesmen turns to him and says "Mister, I just do not think you appreciate what a great truck this is, I would be a fool to let you drive it off this lot for anything less then $72,000." The farmer gets in his old Chevy and drives off. Well, wouldn't ya know a few months later the farmer is on his farm and the same very salesmen stops by and asks about buying a new herd bull. The farmer says the bulls are $2,500, and they go look at all of them...finally, the salesmen finds a bull he likes. A rather fine looking bull called "Wyoming Wind." They go back to the barn and the farmer goes to get the certificate as the salesmen said, "so $2,500, a check will do?" "Well, let me look this over...that's the bull you want, right?" "Yes sir, it is." The farmer then grunts as he glances over the breeding certificate and finally says "that one there will come up to $45,126." The salesmen just looks confused, so the farmer goes on, "that one there is 4 wheel drive, it won't get stuck no matter where it goes. It can climb the steepest hills, jump, and even get across streams and creeks. It has dual horns, that makes it real safe now-a-days. It's an all leather model, so that's going to add at least $5,000. There is an automatic power flyswatter, manure spreader and it even has 3 extra chambers to store food and snacks. The way I figure it is I can't let that bull go for anything less then $45,000." So, I guess, it all depends on how you value your cattle. I've seen plenty of cattle sell for over $200,000. Yet, none of those would bring more then $1,500 at any cattle auction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Why would a truck salesman want a bull? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 A bull supplies bullish** and what car salesmen couldn't use extra bullish**? Why would a truck salesman want a bull? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 21, 2012 Author Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) Why would a truck salesman want a bull? jeesh. Everyone is a wiseguy... Edited December 21, 2012 by jboyst62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 jeesh. Everyone is a wiseguy... What makes you think everyone is italian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 What is up with the Bridge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 Held off on an update, as of today the paperwork is officially started to condemn the property. The process will take 6-8 weeks, once approved by the County Clerk of Courts it instantly belongs to the state who will have machinery out here within 12 hours to begin the project. It is entering condemnation because that NCDOT was unwilling to commit to requests I had made, such as the contract including perimeters on what will be acceptable for a new driveway, the availability of me to access my land for farming purposes (haying, mowing, general upkeep, etc), and other issues that are very important. When brought forth and asked about these issues the only reply I got was literally "we're not going to help you," and "they are unwilling to address those issues." They have, however, asked that I sign a paper allowing the utility companies to begin early work moving lines - there are two water lines (24" and 18" main lines), two passes of overhead power and cable lines, and an 8" main gas line that need to be removed. I have withheld allowing them the right to do so as they have not answered the questions I have and shown interest in my needs - specifically fertilizer. I am getting ready to drop a couple thousand on fertilizer, and if I can't get hay off that land I do not want to put fertilizer on it. None the less, I have met some great people that work for the NCDOT who are just doing their jobs, so I hold no ill will. They have been as civil and cordial as they can be, and I would like to believe all of them know what a unique and pressing case this is for the farm. Construction begins in March. Anyone read the book "Roakwork" by Richard Bachman? What makes you think everyone is italian? You're a pistol, you're really funny. You're really funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I have withheld allowing them the right to do so as they have not answered the questions I have and shown interest in my needs - specifically fertilizer. I am getting ready to drop a couple thousand on fertilizer, and if I can't get hay off that land I do not want to put fertilizer on it. You should go ahead and spread the fertilizer, right where they will be working. So every shovel full stirs it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Nice two lane blacktop in that article. Perfect for riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 Nice two lane blacktop in that article. Perfect for riding. They take up the road, 2 and 3 wide occasionally. Not a safe route, though - going downhill, snaking blind turns, and 55 mph motorists on a road that has nothing but a dozen driveways over the course of a mile... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted March 8, 2013 Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 And it is condemned. I was at work while the papers were served. They have already marked the utility lines and will begin taking them up and moving them this weekend. Of course, it happens on a Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Best time for them to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted May 1, 2013 Author Share Posted May 1, 2013 http://www.the-dispatch.com/article/20130430/News/304309975/1005?Title=NCDOT-awards-contracts-for-three-bridges-in-Davidson-County For those wondering - the contracts are awarded, the $100mm total for the project is real costs - by the time they change the tracks and do all the bridges planned. Anyway, my new bridge is going to be $4.7mm, so I thank you federal tax payers. On this side of the front - still not finalized as we wait for the mediation to begin some time this summer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 JB, It's always bothered me that NC will pay you for taking part of your land, but won't include an estimate of your lost profits in the payment. Although that seems to clearly be all that NC law allows in a condemnation proceeding, it doesn't seem fair. So now and then I've been trying to think of ways that you might be able to get around that limitation. If you already have a mediation tentatively scheduled, it sounds like you're probably represented by a NC lawyer. If so, you should follow his or her advice, but here's something you might want to run by your lawyer. What you can recover in any court case depends on what type of claim you are making. As you know by now, in NC you can't recover lost profits in a condemnation proceeding - - there is a legal formula for what you can make the state pay you for the land it takes, and in NC that formula doesn't include anything for lost profits. But maybe your lawyer can figure out a way to bring an entirely different type of legal claim that would allow you to recover lost profits anyway. An example might make this easier to follow. Let's say, hypothetically, that the NCDOT is building the new bridge, and some welder carelessly starts a fire on the land the county took for the bridge, and it spreads to the adjoining land you still own and burns down your nearby barn. In that situtation, I think you might be able to bring a negligence suit against the NCDOT for the value of the destroyed barn. That's true even though the value of the barn on land you still own can't be recovered in the condemnation action. In short, it wasn't the mere taking of the land needed for the new bridge that caused the damage to the barn, it was something else (i.e., the welder's carelessness). Likewise, in your real situation, you need to find a way to claim that it isn't the mere taking of your land for the new bridge that will make you lose profits, but something else. The hard part is figuring out what that "something else" could be. Maybe thinking about a different hypothetical situation can help us figure it out. What if the NCDOT had decided to simply repair the existing bridge in a way that did NOT require NCDOT to take any of your existing land. In that situation, there would be no condemnation action, there would just be repair activity on land that the state already owned. Here's the key question - - in such a situation, if the particular way the repair work was done cut off your access to some portion of your land, is there any type of legal claim you could make to recover the profits you lost because of the impaired access? I don't know the answer, but if the answer is yes, then that type of legal claim, whatever it's called, is the "something else" you need. Stated differently, if you could hypothetically recover profits lost because bridge repair crews temporarily cut off your cattle's access to part of your land, why should the state get a better deal in your real situation just because they also needed to permanently take some of your land? This approach may or may not work (because I don't know the answer to what I called the "key question" above), and I don't have any NC case law to support it. But if your lost profits are big enough, you might want to print this post out and ask your lawyer to read it. There's at least some chance that it might help him or her see a way to get you a bigger payment from the state. Either way, good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Good for you, I hope that everything works out. Seems like a tunnel would be the best approach for you and your cattle. Hopefully this isn't an issue with any of the herd. The cows are going to be fine in the tunnel. jBoyst is the one who will have issues..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted July 5, 2013 Author Share Posted July 5, 2013 Mead and a few others have asked what has been going on with this. About a month ago the utility lines, gas and power moved to underground boring. At this point the state has erected some work signs, put up some barrels in prep. They also have had temporary barb wire fences erected along parts of the property that will limit my ability, if not cease my ability, to enter part of my land. Silt fences have been put up to keep wash down, as well rocks being put down to help with erosion control. Next will be removing some trees and debris in the way. On the legal front nothing much has changed. It will likely be another month or so before the meat starts to come off the bone and mediation begins. I will ask that no American bolts or steel is used for the bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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