OCinBuffalo Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Huh? I must have missed all the postseason success Philly had before McNabb. He led them to 5 conference championship games and one SB. He had a career record of 98-62-1 (6-13 the last 2 years). What more do you want from a draft pick? We as Bills fans would complain if our QB only got us to 5 championship games? Again, Terry Bradshaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Again, Terry Bradshaw I maybe missing your point but McNabb was a much better QB than Bradshaw. TB only had 2 more tds than ints for his career. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTe00.htm He also threw to 2 HOF receivers and played with one of the greatest defenses ever. I know I will get killed for this, McNabb was a better QB than Jim Kelly. Kelly was on a much stronger team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmac Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Huh? I must have missed all the postseason success Philly had before McNabb. He led them to 5 conference championship games and one SB. He had a career record of 98-62-1 (6-13 the last 2 years). What more do you want from a draft pick? We as Bills fans would complain if our QB only got us to 5 championship games? The expectations for McNabb and the Eagles were always much higher than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damj Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 He belongs in the Hall of Good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 I maybe missing your point but McNabb was a much better QB than Bradshaw. TB only had 2 more tds than ints for his career. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTe00.htm He also threw to 2 HOF receivers and played with one of the greatest defenses ever. I know I will get killed for this, McNabb was a better QB than Jim Kelly. Kelly was on a much stronger team. Guys get the rope! We gotta hang this mofo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Guys get the rope! We gotta hang this mofo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) <---- You Edited April 19, 2012 by Captain Hindsight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmac Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 I maybe missing your point but McNabb was a much better QB than Bradshaw. TB only had 2 more tds than ints for his career. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTe00.htm He also threw to 2 HOF receivers and played with one of the greatest defenses ever. I know I will get killed for this, McNabb was a better QB than Jim Kelly. Kelly was on a much stronger team. Donovan's QB rating was 85.2, Kelly's 84.4. Not a huge difference. I will agree that he was a better athlete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 When I woke up this morning, I turned on the local sports talk radio station, where they are normally talking about nothing I care about...but Bucky Godboldt (former Longhorns assistant coach, and radio personality here in Austin) was talking about "partying with Jim Kelly, back in Miami"..."He was a hell of a partier, and a hell of a football player...who the hell does Donovan McNabb think he is, comparing himself to Jim Kelly?" So, I do a search, and find this article...though I see no mention of McNabb himself comparing his career to Kelly's, some of his statements are absurd. And, I will admit, I was a huge McNabb fan at one time...but he is not a Hall Of Famer...unless Vinny Testeverde and Drew Bledsoe make it...IMO. What do you think? http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8286a1a0/article/donovan-mcnabb-believes-hes-a-hall-of-famer The comparison is valid. Buffalo's fortunes turned when Kelly came on board. Same for Philly, with McNabb. Yes, other players contributed to both turnarounds, I won't argue that point, but they were the point men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 No, he is not a hall of fame QB. There are already too many guys who shouldn't be in the hall of fame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 I know I will get killed for this, McNabb was a better QB than Jim Kelly. Kelly was on a much stronger team. Dude, you have truly lost your mind. "Getting to a conference championship game" often times means you win ONE playoff game that year. Getting to the Super Bowl means you WON the conference championship. Getting to the conference championship game means...squat. McNabb was a better athlete than Jimbo, but a better QB? The Eagles had one of the best defenses in the league during the "getting to the conference championship game" years. Their scoring defense in 2001-04 and 2008 was ranked 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 2nd, and 4th. Point being, he may not have had Pro Bowl wideouts to work with, but the teams he played on those years were very solid overall. Just like Bledsoe, McNabb put up all sorts of pretty numbers when it didnt' matter, but in big games he couldn't pull his own weight and was often THE reason for the loss. With the exception of the SB vs the Giants, we lost to teams in the SB that were clearly better. The '91 Skins, '92 Cowboys, and '93 Cowboys were three of the strongest teams in the history of the NFL. On top of that, free agency didn't begin until 1993, so we didn't have the benefit of playing in a league of parity like McNabb did. I really hope you're trolling us, because I cannot believe ANYONE would consider McNabb a better QB, let alone a Bills fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 I maybe missing your point but McNabb was a much better QB than Bradshaw. TB only had 2 more tds than ints for his career. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTe00.htm He also threw to 2 HOF receivers and played with one of the greatest defenses ever. I know I will get killed for this, McNabb was a better QB than Jim Kelly. Kelly was on a much stronger team. C.Biscuit, I normally agree with you on football stuff, but you are kind of losing me here...what are you basing this opinon on? Keep in mind, I agree with you, Donovan McNabb was a very good NFL QB...and I am not just blowing smoke...the only college football jersey I have ever owned is a McNabb jeresy. I would think you would know by now, you really can't make these kinds of arguments based solely on stats, particularly when comparing players from different eras. You can say that Bradshaw played with two HOF receivers, but another person can argue that neither of those receivers belongs in the HOF, based on their stats... As cliche as it is, you are what you do, when it comes to sports...which is why, I suspect, we all love them so much. McNabb may be a better athlete than Terry Bradshaw, but not a better QB. I think you are going to lose that argument 99.9% of the time, outside of Philadelphia. As for Kelly vs McNabb, Donovan wins the stat wars...but, I would argue, Kelly was far from a slouch, and had more of the "intagibles" that Donovan McNabb seemed to lack....also, McNabb had a huge advantage, for the bulk of his career, in that his teams, had better defensese than Kelly's did...as much as that pains me to say. During Kelly's time in Buffalo, the defense was top notch in 1988, and while not awful (like we have seen so much of in the last decade) but not consistantly great either. And while we think of the K-Gun offense as being a pass happy Offense, it's success was really predicated on running the ball effectively in obvious passing situations...and, Kelly was calling those shots. I am really not trying to run McNabb down, because I do think he was one of the better QB's of his time...but he had some pretty glaring weaknesses too. Maybe it was the "Mr Nice Guy" image he always so carefully cultivated, but he didn't always seem to "have" his team...TO was a punk in Philly, but it never should have gotten as out of hand as it did. To my knowledge, Donovan has not officially retired, just nobody is ringing his phone. Honestly, his skills started declining about three seasons ago...Shanahan may have been a jackass, but I don't think blaming the coach for his inability to adapt to a new offense, makes him look very good. Shanahan didn't trade for him because he wanted to torture him, and lose a bunch of games. Donovan was awful with Washington. And he wasn't great his last couple of years in Philly. And throughout his career, he had multiple game "funks" that most of the greats didin't have. His fundamentals would break down...and he had a JP Losman-like knack for short hopping passes in big games, at the wrong time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Dude, you have truly lost your mind. "Getting to a conference championship game" often times means you win ONE playoff game that year. Getting to the Super Bowl means you WON the conference championship. Getting to the conference championship game means...squat. McNabb was a better athlete than Jimbo, but a better QB? The Eagles had one of the best defenses in the league during the "getting to the conference championship game" years. Their scoring defense in 2001-04 and 2008 was ranked 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 2nd, and 4th. Point being, he may not have had Pro Bowl wideouts to work with, but the teams he played on those years were very solid overall. Just like Bledsoe, McNabb put up all sorts of pretty numbers when it didnt' matter, but in big games he couldn't pull his own weight and was often THE reason for the loss. With the exception of the SB vs the Giants, we lost to teams in the SB that were clearly better. The '91 Skins, '92 Cowboys, and '93 Cowboys were three of the strongest teams in the history of the NFL. On top of that, free agency didn't begin until 1993, so we didn't have the benefit of playing in a league of parity like McNabb did. I really hope you're trolling us, because I cannot believe ANYONE would consider McNabb a better QB, let alone a Bills fan. Which was the better QB? Heck if I know- It has been a long time since I regularly watched Kelly and I don't feel like doing a player by player breakdown on teammates. The Bills had one of the best lineups ever, but Kelly had some serious flaws as far as reading defenses. Still doesn't diminish what he accomplished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 Donovan's QB rating was 85.2, Kelly's 84.4. Not a huge difference. I will agree that he was a better athlete. McNabb was a great athlete, great college QB, and a very good basketball player. But lets be honest...he did allow himself to get fat and happy, especially in later in his career...early on he was able to rely on his athletisism to overcome some problems with his fundamentals, but as he got older (and that is no sin, it happens to everyone), I would contend he didn't keep himself in tip-top shape, and his game suffered for it. I still remember watching that Super Bowl live...my buddies and I were all pulling for the Eagles...that last drive, he just looked gassed, and like he was moving in slow motion, as time was just ticking off the clock...and this was before TO came out and said anything about it. Now, Jimbo may have been guilty of getting a little puffy in his later years too, but his game didn't erode so badly that he hung on too far past his better days. McNabb could have been even better than he was, I think. The last few off seasons he would come out and say he was "feeling better than he has in years", "best shape of my career"....only to lumber his way through the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Which was the better QB? Heck if I know What is WRONG with you two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted April 19, 2012 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 Which was the better QB? Heck if I know- It has been a long time since I regularly watched Kelly and I don't feel like doing a player by player breakdown on teammates. The Bills had one of the best lineups ever, but Kelly had some serious flaws as far as reading defenses. Still doesn't diminish what he accomplished. I don't mean this as a knock on you Adam, but I have noticed the last couple of years, it has become sort of fashionable to kind of knock all of the Bills "greats" from those Super Bowl teams...particularly Jim Kelly and Andre Reed...for about the last three years, I have been spending off hours transferring old Bills games from that era, from VHS to DVD (I got no life)...I can tell you, from 1988-1993, at least, there were not a lot of QB's in the NFL that you could say were better than Jim Kelly... I think seeing those games now, especially with all the dreck that has followed, I don't really see the "serious flaws" in reading defenses. That guy was in control of that offense, and knew where everyone was, and where they were supposed to be. When he had problems, I don't think, most of the time,they stemmed from not being able to read defenses as much as being stubborn enough to think that he could make any throw. And he really did exude a confidence that few Bills since have had, save, perhaps, Doug Flutie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 I don't mean this as a knock on you Adam, but I have noticed the last couple of years, it has become sort of fashionable to kind of knock all of the Bills "greats" from those Super Bowl teams...particularly Jim Kelly and Andre Reed...for about the last three years, I have been spending off hours transferring old Bills games from that era, from VHS to DVD (I got no life)...I can tell you, from 1988-1993, at least, there were not a lot of QB's in the NFL that you could say were better than Jim Kelly... I think seeing those games now, especially with all the dreck that has followed, I don't really see the "serious flaws" in reading defenses. That guy was in control of that offense, and knew where everyone was, and where they were supposed to be. When he had problems, I don't think, most of the time,they stemmed from not being able to read defenses as much as being stubborn enough to think that he could make any throw. And he really did exude a confidence that few Bills since have had, save, perhaps, Doug Flutie. Jim Kelly was one of the best QBs of that era. Saying that he was flawed isn't an insult aimed at him. I don't know how people could knock those players and defend our recent guys, like Schobel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Guys get the rope! We gotta hang this mofo 50 lashes, and a beer-bottle circumcision. Whether he needs it, or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 When I woke up this morning, I turned on the local sports talk radio station, where they are normally talking about nothing I care about...but Bucky Godboldt (former Longhorns assistant coach, and radio personality here in Austin) was talking about "partying with Jim Kelly, back in Miami"..."He was a hell of a partier, and a hell of a football player...who the hell does Donovan McNabb think he is, comparing himself to Jim Kelly?" So, I do a search, and find this article...though I see no mention of McNabb himself comparing his career to Kelly's, some of his statements are absurd. And, I will admit, I was a huge McNabb fan at one time...but he is not a Hall Of Famer...unless Vinny Testeverde and Drew Bledsoe make it...IMO. What do you think? http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8286a1a0/article/donovan-mcnabb-believes-hes-a-hall-of-famer McNabb might be the most under appreciated QB in the Modern NFL era. He was a guy that did a lot with NO offensive weapons the bulk of his career. Philly put together the most miserable set of receivers for the vast majority of McNabbs stay there and yet he still put up pretty good numbers and led the Eagles to 4 straight championship games and nearly a SB win. That being said, I don't think his resume is quite what it will take to make the HOF nor do I think he should go. But he did accomplish quite a bit throwing to scrubs like Fred Ex (as in EX NFL player), Stallworth, Curtis, Baskett, Avant, R. Brown, Pinkston, Etc...Only talent he got was a brief stint with TO and then a brief stint with DeSean. He was better than people give him credit for...still, don't think that will be enough for the hall, but if he had better options in the prime of his career then who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 50 lashes, and a beer-bottle circumcision. Whether he needs it, or not. Oh, he needs it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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