ieatcrayonz Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 What part of purposely injuring players makes any sense if the point is to win? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 What part of purposely injuring players makes any sense if the point is to win? What else could it be besides motivation? And again... This is about a bounty system... so there is financial gain. And lets be honest, the refs don't catch everything at the bottom of a pile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 (edited) Agreed. I didn't think the cut off the head part was bad at all. That was a metaphor. A couple things late about the acl and concussions though were just plain bad. i agree with that. but if you listen to giants players after the san fran game, they knew to go after the PR high as he was dealing with concussion history. whether that came from a coach, or just their own film study..... they wanted to hit him in the head and hope he dropped the ball. it worked. im not all that surprised by this speech and i dont think most should be if they have listened to players and coaches the last few years. i find it far more shocking what some are dumb enough to say publicly, i can only imagine what most do behind closed doors. Edited April 5, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eme123 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Seriously? Yeah Seriously. If you hit Alex Smith in the head/chin you are going to get a penalty and a costly one. If the most important thing is to win the game why would you want to do things like this over and over? Its nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Yeah Seriously. If you hit Alex Smith in the head/chin you are going to get a penalty and a costly one. If the most important thing is to win the game why would you want to do things like this over and over? Its nonsense Lets see, 15 yard penalty, with the possibility of the starting QB....... wait for it.......NOT BEING ABLE TO RETURN TO THE GAME. Doesn't sound to terrible of a penalty to me for what you are achieving.... And to top it off, you get $10,000 check in your locker after the game. But hey, I'm sure he wasn't really suggesting players do this... purely motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Yeah Seriously. If you hit Alex Smith in the head/chin you are going to get a penalty and a costly one. If the most important thing is to win the game why would you want to do things like this over and over? Its nonsense If they managed to knock Smith and/or Gore and/or Davis out of the game they wouldn't have increased their chances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 (edited) Lets see, 15 yard penalty, with the possibility of the starting QB....... wait for it.......NOT BEING ABLE TO RETURN TO THE GAME. Doesn't sound to terrible of a penalty to me for what you are achieving.... And to top it off, you get $10,000 check in your locker after the game. But hey, I'm sure he wasn't really suggesting players do this... purely motivation. right but a 30k fine, not actually knocking him out, and getting a penalty is... you know, bad. and bobby mccray was getting dogged on the sidelines for his hits in 2009, and wasnt brought back the following year. your theory fits the soundbite better, but i do have some hesitation to jump that far, as the dirty hits just werent that big. they had shots at smith and didnt do what you claim they would based on this speech. again, not excusing the speech, but trying to keep a level head instead of just flying off the deep end on these (very ugly) comments that gregg made. its easy to condemn, im just trying to give some of the counter point as I dont expect anyone else to. cross the line of ok? certainly. as bad as it sounds? i dont think so. not as bad. rare? im still doubting it. Edited April 5, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eme123 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Lets see, 15 yard penalty, with the possibility of the starting QB....... wait for it.......NOT BEING ABLE TO RETURN TO THE GAME. Doesn't sound to terrible of a penalty to me for what you are achieving.... And to top it off, you get $10,000 check in your locker after the game. But hey, I'm sure he wasn't really suggesting players do this... purely motivation. Minus 10 times that in fines from the league & Suspension from the NFC Cahmpionship game. Not to mention you most likely don't knock the QB out of the game and rack up penalties all day while trying. Its NON SENSE If they managed to knock Smith and/or Gore and/or Davis out of the game they wouldn't have increased their chances? IF is the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 The issue isnt that Greggo was looking for a competitive edge. If you are facing Colin Kapernick instead of Alex Smith that is a definite advantage. That issue cannot be denied. I doubt this only happens with Greg Williams too, hell my high school coach would have us all clap for a big hit in film study, go back and replay it, buy the kid an ice cream or something stupid like that. The issue here is that with all these lawsuits about player safety in an increasingly violent sport, Goddell had to do something and something harsh to show that the league is trying to put a stop to this. I'm not shocked that it happened at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 i agree with that. but if you listen to giants players after the san fran game, they knew to go after the PR high as he was dealing with concussion history. whether that came from a coach, or just their own film study..... they wanted to hit him in the head and hope he dropped the ball. it worked. im not all that surprised by this speech and i dont think most should be if they have listened to players and coaches the last few years. i find it far more shocking what some are dumb enough to say publicly, i can only imagine what most do behind closed doors. The real shocking thing about that tape is they allowed the documentary filmmaker in there to film it. I suppose it's likely that he had been there enough that he blended into the furniture and they didn't even notice him after awhile. Also, I didnt really read that much into this particular speech, and only listened to it once, but it didn't appear to be a fire them up motivational speech right before they burst out of the locker room where any crazy thing could have been said just to get the juices flowing, IIRC, Williams said "tomorrow" which would imply this was a strategy much more than go out there and hit the man next to you as hard as you can and kill the mofo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 right but a 30k fine, not actually knocking him out, and getting a penalty is... you know, bad. and bobby mccray was getting dogged on the sidelines for his hits in 2009, and wasnt brought back the following year. your theory fits the soundbite better, but i do have some hesitation to jump that far, as the dirty hits just werent that big. they had shots at smith and didnt do what you claim they would based on this speech. again, not excusing the speech, but trying to keep a level head instead of just flying off the deep end on these (very ugly) comments that gregg made. its easy to condemn, im just trying to give some of the counter point as I dont expect anyone else to. cross the line of ok? certainly. as bad as it sounds? i dont think so. not as bad. rare? im still doubting it. As a side point, some hits go unpenalized or fined. And I agree with you it doesn't mean that his players went out there and did that. I honestly believe these kind of speeches happen a lot in the NFL. But to specifically remind your players to hit on the outside of the knee cause it will tear the ACL, seems a bit far. So for me, when a poster says this was strictly for motivation, I don't buy that. Especially since its known that a bounty system was in place, so it would make sense to remind your players how to injure or where to injure other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 The issue isnt that Greggo was looking for a competitive edge. If you are facing Colin Kapernick instead of Alex Smith that is a definite advantage. That issue cannot be denied. I doubt this only happens with Greg Williams too, hell my high school coach would have us all clap for a big hit in film study, go back and replay it, buy the kid an ice cream or something stupid like that. The issue here is that with all these lawsuits about player safety in an increasingly violent sport, Goddell had to do something and something harsh to show that the league is trying to put a stop to this. I'm not shocked that it happened at all yup - and i think gregg is from that old school theory of coaching, and stupidly stubborn on how things are supposed to work. we have all seen first hand that he held on to terrible ideas, because they were his and they were supposed to work and thats how things are supposed to be. hell, thats why they lost the 9ers game - his playcalling was textbook gregg williams - the qb coach was with carolina the two years prior, and for the week before diagramed exactly what gregg would call on the last drive. they installed plays just for it. any saints fan saw it coming. being a caveman that wants to beat things up on the field fits that same stubborn idea. the nfl warned him and he wasnt going to stop because its supposed to work that way. The real shocking thing about that tape is they allowed the documentary filmmaker in there to film it. I suppose it's likely that he had been there enough that he blended into the furniture and they didn't even notice him after awhile. Also, I didnt really read that much into this particular speech, and only listened to it once, but it didn't appear to be a fire them up motivational speech right before they burst out of the locker room where any crazy thing could have been said just to get the juices flowing, IIRC, Williams said "tomorrow" which would imply this was a strategy much more than go out there and hit the man next to you as hard as you can and kill the mofo! honestly, with gregg, id guess it was a lot of arrogance. i think he assumed it didnt really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Agreed. I didn't think the cut off the head part was bad at all. That was a metaphor. A couple things late about the acl and concussions though were just plain bad. I was thinking along the same lines, but it stops being a metaphor the second he makes it specific to Gore. Killing the team's head was a metaphor, but once you say to kill Gore's head, the message is very clear. The editing makes it a bit unclear as to the timing, but if you go with that whole kill the head metaphor and then tell your team to hit Smith in the chin, again, say goodbye to it just being a metaphor. The whole thing is incredibly disturbing to listen to, especially with what we now know about all of the concussion issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 (edited) As a side point, some hits go unpenalized or fined. And I agree with you it doesn't mean that his players went out there and did that. I honestly believe these kind of speeches happen a lot in the NFL. But to specifically remind your players to hit on the outside of the knee cause it will tear the ACL, seems a bit far. So for me, when a poster says this was strictly for motivation, I don't buy that. Especially since its known that a bounty system was in place, so it would make sense to remind your players how to injure or where to injure other players. agreed. and i cant say what the players take away from it at all. the devils advocate explanation that im sure could be part of his defense of that is if you hit him in a way that worries him, it gets in his head. the idea of becoming human strikes me as he starts protecting himself instead of playing with reckless disregard and at his full potential, not that hes on a cart and out for a year. i dont think williams cared at all if crabtree ended up on a cart, but im just talking to the "becomes human after it." hes openly talked about it with receivers going up for the ball like johnson, you make them short by going low and flipping them when they jump, not by trying to out jump them. they land on their heads and they think twice before going up that high again. or of course they dont get up, and odds are the backup cant make those plays is the extension of that. Edited April 5, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Thurman Thomas tweeted this a little while ago, which I thought was both funny and awesome: Thurman Thomas @thurmanthomas I remember Greg Lloyd telling #12 b4 the game he was going to knock the **** out of him, and Jim saying, bring it MoFo.... Classic Jimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toshiero Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Worthless POS. NSFW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stl Bills Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 And I thought I drop too many F-bombs. This is not good for OL' Greggo.....I bet the Rams part ways with him in the next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Wow tough talk when your not the one that has to do the hitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Haven't listened, but I'm guessing 90% (or more) is stuff heard in every football locker room. Unfortunately for Greggggg, it's that arrogance we all know and love that led to the unacceptable 10%. He's done in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastly Dareus Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I can't believe some of the things said in that recording. Wow I hope it stops with Gregg Williams, or the integrity of the game may be in jeopardy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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