Why blaming Fitz is stupid

[Toolbox]

You mean the Eli who led the league in INTs in 2010 or the one who won the SB with the worst record ever because his defense got healthier? Look, Eli has improved a lot but he was on the verge of getting run out of town (and the only reason he wasn't is becuase their wasn't a better backup and his last name).

 

Look if you can find an elite guy, get him. But right now, I'm more jealous of the Giants pass rush.

 

 

We don't need the QB who led the league in INTs in 2010. We have the guy who led the league in INTs in 2011, who also has never won Super Bowls or exceeded mediocrity in any year statistically over 5 seasons.

[Turbosrrgood]

These arguments are all ridiculous. You are comparing apples to oranges. I love how guys want to blame one thing or another as the sole reason the Bills are not a good team. Fitz is no superstar, yet he is far better than the 10 years of garbage before him.

 

Eli impressed me this year, so you will not find me bad mouthing him. But he also has two of the best WR's in the league (and Manningham), 2 good RB's, a good O-line, and an amazing D-line....All things that the Bills DON'T have (Well, 2 RB's yes, just not at the same time yet). He has a good team, with good owners, a good GM, and even though I am not a fan, a decent coach.

 

IMO, Fitz proved that he can succeed if he has a solid team playing good football around him. He also proved at the end of the year that he can't carry the team, or win games on his own.

 

The Bottom line is that no one player alone is good enough to win a super bowl, not even a QB (Marino, or Brady this year, or Newton since despite his great play the panthers were one of the worst teams in the league). If the Bill's had a legitimate shot at a high potential "franchise" type QB, yeah they should go for it. In all likely hood they don't. The Bills need a solid 53 man roster, not just a QB. Even if we had the #1 or 2 overall pick and drafted a "franchise" QB, we would probably ruin them with the awful team around them. It's a 53 man roster, not 1 man.

 

Will we win a SB with Fitz? Seems unlikely. Can we start creating a competitive atmosphere and start making the playoffs while we look for that "special guy"? I think so

Edited February 24, 2012 by Turbosrrgood

[PDaDdy]

Manning threw the most 4th quarter TD passes in a season in NFL history this year. He also recorded the sixth highest passing yardage season in NFL history. In short, his season was incredible.

 

I don't think anyone argues the need for pass rushers, but the only constant in the Giants season was Eli Manning and his passing game, which excelled whether the defense did or not. The Bills passing game is not resilient like that and it does start with the QB.

 

Fitz is an average QB, but priority #1 in the NFL is getting a franchise QB. They make everyone else look better. Including defenses like the Pats and Giants.

 

Let's use the Fitz attack pattern gamma. "So you are going to count his 4th quarter TDs in garbage time?" You do recall that the Giants were 9 - 7 in the regular season and had a horrible losing streak only topped by ours because their DEFENSE wasn't healthy? The Giants defense eventually got healthy and they road it into the playoffs while our defense continued to suck.

[Maury Ballstein]

Can we do Eli a favor and not mention him in the same thread as Fitz? This is beyond ridiculous. Watch the games is all i can say to whoever decided to bring eli into this convo. Eli does not miss wide open recievers routinely. Eli has 2 rings. Eli is not a career backup.

 

Fitz is a career backup and his play down the stretch confirms this. Bills F.O. is a joke lets throw another 60 mil at this "average at best" qb

 

 

 

COME ON MAN !

[DrDawkinstein]

Im not going to wade through 3 pages of what I imagine is the same pissing match between the same sides, but...

 

The reason it's stupid to blame Fitz is simple... It's stupid to blame any ONE player or thing. The team is hurting at many levels.

 

It's when you add up the facts that:

 

1. Fitz is an "ok" QB to begin with

2. We have no pass rush

3. Our D Coordinator was an absolute joke

4. We had almost every key player on Offense get injured at some point. Not just Freddie, Bell, and Woods. But also SJ's groin, Fitz's ribs, Chandler got injured, Hairston went down, and our entire WR corp was decimated.

5. Injuries on Defense forced a lot of rookies to start, and they played well, but they were still rookies.

 

Im sure the list could go on if I thought about it more.

 

None of these are excuses by themselves. But when you look at the OVERALL happenings from 2011, all you can do is shrug and say "Yeah, that sucked".

 

Replacing any one single player was not going to change it from a 6-10 to a playoff year. Maybe we go 7-9 or 8-8 with a different QB. Probably not.

[C.Biscuit97]

youtube.com/watch?v=svwGRJA28lY

 

Says the Jimmy Clausen fan.

[Alphadawg7]

You mean the Eli who led the league in INTs in 2010 or the one who won the SB with the worst record ever because his defense got healthier? Look, Eli has improved a lot but he was on the verge of getting run out of town (and the only reason he wasn't is becuase their wasn't a better backup and his last name).

 

Look if you can find an elite guy, get him. But right now, I'm more jealous of the Giants pass rush.

 

Hahahahaha, Geezus more homerism. There isn't a single GM in football that would take Fitz over Eli. He is a 2 time SB champion and the giants only made the playoffs because of the tremendous year Eli had. He is a top 10, probably even top 5 QB and Fitz ha YET to even have one good full season in his entire career, not one.

[CodeMonkey]

Hahahahaha, Geezus more homerism. There isn't a single GM in football that would take Fitz over Eli. He is a 2 time SB champion and the giants only made the playoffs because of the tremendous year Eli had. He is a top 10, probably even top 5 QB and Fitz ha YET to even have one good full season in his entire career, not one.

You are correct of course, and this includes Buddy Nix.

With Fitz's 3/4 throwing motion and inability to throw accurately over 10 yards (and arguably less than 10 yards far too often) there is no way Fitz is more than a backup to Manning.

 

Now getting back to the original point of this thread if I may, blaming Fitz for everything IS stupid. However overlooking his obvious deficiencies is also stupid IMO.

[PDaDdy]

Im not going to wade through 3 pages of what I imagine is the same pissing match between the same sides, but...

 

The reason it's stupid to blame Fitz is simple... It's stupid to blame any ONE player or thing. The team is hurting at many levels.

 

It's when you add up the facts that:

 

1. Fitz is an "ok" QB to begin with

2. We have no pass rush

3. Our D Coordinator was an absolute joke

4. We had almost every key player on Offense get injured at some point. Not just Freddie, Bell, and Woods. But also SJ's groin, Fitz's ribs, Chandler got injured, Hairston went down, and our entire WR corp was decimated.

5. Injuries on Defense forced a lot of rookies to start, and they played well, but they were still rookies.

 

Im sure the list could go on if I thought about it more.

 

None of these are excuses by themselves. But when you look at the OVERALL happenings from 2011, all you can do is shrug and say "Yeah, that sucked".

 

Replacing any one single player was not going to change it from a 6-10 to a playoff year. Maybe we go 7-9 or 8-8 with a different QB. Probably not.

 

There ya go usin' that fancy college boy logic again. Don't you know it's all one guys fault!?!?!? We need a mythical franchise QB messiah that can evade all pressure, deliver the ball in 1/2 second, make every throw, catch his own passes without dropping them as well as rush the passer and stop the run on defense.

 

Mythical franchise QB you say? Mythical because no one can define one!!!! (**special mention for section122 that a least had the stones to throw out the numbers of a 65% completion rate and 2:1 TD to INT ratio. There are a whole FOUR QBs in the entire league that meet that criteria and Eli is not one of them!!!)

Edited February 24, 2012 by PDaDdy

[section122]

There ya go usin' that fancy college boy logic again. Don't you know it's all one guys fault!?!?!? We need a mythical franchise QB messiah that can evade all pressure, deliver the ball in 1/2 second, make every throw, catch his own passes without dropping them as well as rush the passer and stop the run on defense.

 

Mythical franchise QB you say? Mythical because no one can define one!!!! (**special mention for section122 that a least had the stones to throw out the numbers of a 65% completion rate and 2:1 TD to INT ratio. There are a whole FOUR QBs in the entire league that meet that criteria and Eli is not one of them!!!)

I appreciate the shout out but I did add a few caveats too. I think there are qbs out there that every team would like to have (the elite qbs). I think we all know who those qbs are. Brees, Rodgers, Brady, both Mannings, Rothlesburger, Stafford, and I may have missed one or two.

 

We can argue about Romo (who fit my franchise qb criteria somehow) and others but not Fitz. There is no doubt all of these qbs are better than Fitz. Which doesn't make him terrible but he is clearly not elite (I will add yet but c'mon he's 30). Those that want a "franchise" qb want someone who can put the team/game on their shoulders. Not some quantifiable number/stat. Some here are convinced that is Fitz but most of us aren't.

 

Do you remember how you felt when Jim Kelly was behind center? That points were a given and the other d wouldn't stop them no matter what? I think that is what the people searching for a "franchise" qb want back, the feeling of confidence in your qb. Again some people have that in Fitz and some don't.

Edited February 24, 2012 by section122

[T master]

 

Give Merriman another shot. I still hate that they cut Maybin. Bottomline, in a pass first league, YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH PASSRUSHERS. I want 3 or 4 picks on pass rushers. They need to study the Giants model to a T.

 

The thing that really gets me is tha Bills this year have said they are going to use Merriman pretty much as a situational pass rusher that he isn't a every down player (also to try & keep him healthy)

 

What did the Jets do with Maybin last year 7 at least got something out of him , they used him as a SITUATIONAL PASS RUSHER Sometimes i don't know what coaches are thinking & i fit in the bypolar group as well because i wanted Maybin out until i saw what he did with the Jets , like you said you can never have enough pass rushers !!

[PDaDdy]

I appreciate the shout out but I did add a few caveats too. I think there are qbs out there that every team would like to have (the elite qbs). I think we all know who those qbs are. Brees, Rodgers, Brady, both Mannings, Rothlesburger, Stafford, and I may have missed one or two.

 

We can argue about Romo (who fit my franchise qb criteria somehow) and others but not Fitz. There is no doubt all of these qbs are better than Fitz. Which doesn't make him terrible but he is clearly not elite (I will add yet but c'mon he's 30). Those that want a "franchise" qb want someone who can put the team/game on their shoulders. Not some quantifiable number/stat. Some here are convinced that is Fitz but most of us aren't.

 

Do you remember how you felt when Jim Kelly was behind center? That points were a given and the other d wouldn't stop them no matter what? I think that is what the people searching for a "franchise" qb want back, the feeling of confidence in your qb. Again some people have that in Fitz and some don't.

 

No problem. My point in asking to quantify a franchise QB instead of an endless debate on qualitative evaluations is to get people to at least ponder the idea that some guys they think are franchise aren't and some that they think aren't are. That can even change from year to year as DrD pointed out. How franchise was Eli last year when he lead the league in INTs before the emergence of JPP on defense for them. One year later, a star WR in Cruz born and all of a sudden Eli is franchise again.

 

Another point is that many QBs are capable or performing at a statistical franchise level when they have the right talent, scheme and support system around them. Fitz did so before the wheels flew off with all the injuries to our WR core that already was mediocre at best. Couple that with a defense that required the offense to score 28+ on average to win unlike the Giants defense and you see this whole thing as a team sport and team issue. Fitz can play like a mythical franchise QB when the pieces are around him. I have that faith I understand others do not. The problem is they would rather mortgage the future to gamble on a rookie QB than actually put talent on this team and let Fitz work with it.

 

Fortunately they aren't the GM and Nix and Gailey will hopefully put talent around Fitz and he can shut up the whiners when we play like we did before the injuries killed us.

[section122]

No problem. My point in asking to quantify a franchise QB instead of an endless debate on qualitative evaluations is to get people to at least ponder the idea that some guys they think are franchise aren't and some that they think aren't are. That can even change from year to year as DrD pointed out. How franchise was Eli last year when he lead the league in INTs before the emergence of JPP on defense for them. One year later, a star WR in Cruz born and all of a sudden Eli is franchise again.

 

Another point is that many QBs are capable or performing at a statistical franchise level when they have the right talent, scheme and support system around them. Fitz did so before the wheels flew off with all the injuries to our WR core that already was mediocre at best. Couple that with a defense that required the offense to score 28+ on average to win unlike the Giants defense and you see this whole thing as a team sport and team issue. Fitz can play like a mythical franchise QB when the pieces are around him. I have that faith I understand others do not. The problem is they would rather mortgage the future to gamble on a rookie QB than actually put talent on this team and let Fitz work with it.

 

Fortunately they aren't the GM and Nix and Gailey will hopefully put talent around Fitz and he can shut up the whiners when we play like we did before the injuries killed us.

I know it seems like I'm flip flopping all over the place her but what the heck I plan on being a politician in the future so this is just good practice .

I agree with you that Fitz should be given at least this year. With all of the holes on this team I would prefer a stronger core through draft and fa than mortgaging anything for anyone. I also agree that who is thought of as franchise can change from year to year. I remember at the beginning of the year when Eli said he was in Tom Brady's class and everyone EVERYONE laughed. He was still considered to be a franchise type qb with the potential to be in that realm.

The disagreement is the same one everybody had last year. It's over whether or not Fitz can lead us to the promised land. Some people got hope from the first 7 games and others despair from the last 9.

The thing I absolutely hate about Fitz? Every year when I start to jump on his bandwagon the wheels fall off. It's like as soon as I accept he may be good he starts sucking. It happened his first year starting and again this year. So to all of you Fitz haters its my fault I'm sorry

[Gugny]

When the defense was playing well and getting turnovers, Fitz was the 3rd best QB in the league behind only Brady and Rodgers. When the defense stopped playing well, Fitz' numbers declined ... sharply. It wasn't a coincidence. This isn't about comparing Fitz to Eli or any other QB, for that matter. It's about recognizing the FACT that if this defense can play consistently, Fitz is good enough to lead this team into the postseason. The Bills didn't lose many games because of Fitz' play and/or the performance of the O-line (two areas complained about WAY too much here). The Bills lost at least 7 or 8 games strictly because their defense was beyond horrible. That, of course, is only my opinion. I just don't know how it can be argued.

[CodeMonkey]

When the defense was playing well and getting turnovers, Fitz was the 3rd best QB in the league behind only Brady and Rodgers. When the defense stopped playing well, Fitz' numbers declined ... sharply. It wasn't a coincidence. This isn't about comparing Fitz to Eli or any other QB, for that matter. It's about recognizing the FACT that if this defense can play consistently, Fitz is good enough to lead this team into the postseason. The Bills didn't lose many games because of Fitz' play and/or the performance of the O-line (two areas complained about WAY too much here). The Bills lost at least 7 or 8 games strictly because their defense was beyond horrible. That, of course, is only my opinion. I just don't know how it can be argued.

I don't think anyone would argue against that the D played poorly and contributed significantly to the last half of the season. But that isn't the only reason in my opinion. Teams figured out (Jets being the first) that if you crowd the line and take away the short game, you take away the Bills only serious offensive weapons. Fitz throwing deep does not scare anyone but Bills fans.

 

The challenge for Gailey this season will be to figure out a way to combat what teams did to the Bills the last half of last season.

 

The challenge for the Stache is somewhat more daunting. Figure out a way not to suck ass.

[yungmack]

When the defense was playing well and getting turnovers, Fitz was the 3rd best QB in the league behind only Brady and Rodgers. When the defense stopped playing well, Fitz' numbers declined ... sharply. It wasn't a coincidence. This isn't about comparing Fitz to Eli or any other QB, for that matter. It's about recognizing the FACT that if this defense can play consistently, Fitz is good enough to lead this team into the postseason. The Bills didn't lose many games because of Fitz' play and/or the performance of the O-line (two areas complained about WAY too much here). The Bills lost at least 7 or 8 games strictly because their defense was beyond horrible. That, of course, is only my opinion. I just don't know how it can be argued.

Dead on accurate. Which is why it's silly to keep going on and on about upgrading the offense as the first order of business. Sure, it would be fantastic to have all future Hall of Famers and the Bills are far from having any right now on offense. But the O is "good enough" right now as it is while the D is still killing this team. The D has to be able to generate more 3-and-outs. Do that and you give the ball to the O more times in a game which will translate to more points. Fail to do that and your "good enough" offense doesn't have the time or talent to generate enough points to win on a consistent basis. The Bills simply put must focus on the defense. BTW, putting Wanstache in charge is tremendously heartening even with the D as it is. Replacing Edwards with him might be the biggest off season move the Bills make.

[Bronc24]

My point in all of this is my belief that Fitz, even with a better team, cannot get us to a Superbowl. I am not naive enough to think a QB will solve all the ills of this franchise. My point is and will always be that even with a better supporting cast, Fitz will not take us to a championship. If you took Fitz and Eli and reversed teams, no way the Giants have two more rings.

 

I am all about getting a better defense and having a kick ass pass rush, but the game has evolved to a point where you need a franchise QB to win. PDad welcomed a criteria we can look to on paper and say this guy is elite and this guy is not. Football and quarterbacking is so much more complex than that. It's not baseball, where one guy puts up stats and his value revolves around that. So many intangibles are involved. So by the criteria mentioned, Eli would not fall into the franchise / elite bracket. This is why I refused to quantify elite. There are so many more factors than numbers. If anyone truly believes Eli Manning is not an elite QB, then I don't know what else to say. The two rings, his ability to win in the fourth quarter and his intangibles say different.

 

I know we have many needs. I'd love us to be aggressive and upgrade at QB. I think it shows players in the league that we are turning a corner which may lure them here. I remember a pretty decent FA named Reggie White signing with the Packers in 93. Yeah, their offer was the most lucrative, but I wonder if having a young Brett Favre helped make that decision.

 

If we win with Fitz, I will be the first to state I am wrong, a statement I have made here at least a half dozen times. I just don't see it happening.

[PDaDdy]

I don't think anyone would argue against that the D played poorly and contributed significantly to the last half of the season. But that isn't the only reason in my opinion. Teams figured out (Jets being the first) that if you crowd the line and take away the short game, you take away the Bills only serious offensive weapons. Fitz throwing deep does not scare anyone but Bills fans.

 

The challenge for Gailey this season will be to figure out a way to combat what teams did to the Bills the last half of last season.

 

The challenge for the Stache is somewhat more daunting. Figure out a way not to suck ass.

 

After Jones and Parrish went down what deep speed did we have to respect at WR? Fitz when his ribs aren't broken can throw a deep ball better than Edwards could. Fitz is capable of making the throw we didn't have any WRs left capable of running the router and it showed.

 

Other than SJ we don't have guys on this team that can get separation and have the ability to consistently go up and catch balls over their head or outside of their torso.

[Bronc24]

I don't think anyone would argue against that the D played poorly and contributed significantly to the last half of the season. But that isn't the only reason in my opinion. Teams figured out (Jets being the first) that if you crowd the line and take away the short game, you take away the Bills only serious offensive weapons. Fitz throwing deep does not scare anyone but Bills fans.

 

The challenge for Gailey this season will be to figure out a way to combat what teams did to the Bills the last half of last season.

 

The challenge for the Stache is somewhat more daunting. Figure out a way not to suck ass.

 

 

Well said.

 

After Jones and Parrish went down what deep speed did we have to respect at WR? Fitz when his ribs aren't broken can throw a deep ball better than Edwards could. Fitz is capable of making the throw we didn't have any WRs left capable of running the router and it showed.

 

Other than SJ we don't have guys on this team that can get separation and have the ability to consistently go up and catch balls over their head or outside of their torso.

 

Stating he can throw the deep ball better than Edwards is not exactly a ringing endorsement.

[PDaDdy]

My point in all of this is my belief that Fitz, even with a better team, cannot get us to a Superbowl. I am not naive enough to think a QB will solve all the ills of this franchise. My point is and will always be that even with a better supporting cast, Fitz will not take us to a championship. If you took Fitz and Eli and reversed teams, no way the Giants have two more rings.

 

I am all about getting a better defense and having a kick ass pass rush, but the game has evolved to a point where you need a franchise QB to win. PDad welcomed a criteria we can look to on paper and say this guy is elite and this guy is not. Football and quarterbacking is so much more complex than that. It's not baseball, where one guy puts up stats and his value revolves around that. So many intangibles are involved. So by the criteria mentioned, Eli would not fall into the franchise / elite bracket. This is why I refused to quantify elite. There are so many more factors than numbers. If anyone truly believes Eli Manning is not an elite QB, then I don't know what else to say. The two rings, his ability to win in the fourth quarter and his intangibles say different.

 

I know we have many needs. I'd love us to be aggressive and upgrade at QB. I think it shows players in the league that we are turning a corner which may lure them here. I remember a pretty decent FA named Reggie White signing with the Packers in 93. Yeah, their offer was the most lucrative, but I wonder if having a young Brett Favre helped make that decision.

 

If we win with Fitz, I will be the first to state I am wrong, a statement I have made here at least a half dozen times. I just don't see it happening.

 

Put Eli on our team and he ends up with cracked rips and doesn't make the playoffs. So what's your point? Did you forget our discussion about Manning benefiting from being in the same system with the same coaching staff and scheme in place for 8 years? Did you forget his probowl WRs and his stellar defense? If Fitz was in that system for 8 years I have every confidence that the Giants would have been a perennial play off team and may have as many super bowls.

[CosmicBills]

...

 

None of these are excuses by themselves. But when you look at the OVERALL happenings from 2011, all you can do is shrug and say "Yeah, that sucked"

Looking at the big picture is always important. And if you look at the big picture of this franchise over the last 12 years suddenly 2011 seems less like an anomaly and more like business as usual.

 

This team has lacked talent and depth for over a decade at every position but for RB. Things haven't changed and the Bills will continue to be irrelevant until they do.

 

Fitz isn't the problem or the solution. Which is the point most are making. But comparing him in any meaningful way to Eli is just idiocy at it's finest.

[PDaDdy]

Stating he can throw the deep ball better than Edwards is not exactly a ringing endorsement.

 

I will say this. You are well skilled at addressing miniscule comments in a forum members post while ignoring the actual focus of the post itself. I suppose that works on some, just not me.

 

So can you disagree with the actual focus of my post?

 

"After Jones and Parrish went down what deep speed did we have to respect at WR?"

"Other than SJ we don't have guys on this team that can get separation and have the ability to consistently go up and catch balls over their head or outside of their torso."

 

But comparing him in any meaningful way to Eli is just idiocy at it's finest.

 

I for the most part agree. Eli has had 8 years of stability in scheme, talent, coaching, system and organization. He has also had probowl WRs and an elite defense keeping them in every game.

 

Fitz is the exact opposite in every way possible. It would be silly to try to compare them and use Eli's success to condemn Fitz.

[Bronc24]

Put Eli on our team and he ends up with cracked rips and doesn't make the playoffs. So what's your point? Did you forget our discussion about Manning benefiting from being in the same system with the same coaching staff and scheme in place for 8 years? Did you forget his probowl WRs and his stellar defense? If Fitz was in that system for 8 years I have every confidence that the Giants would have been a perennial play off team and may have as many super bowls.

 

 

Which is exactly why I ended the argument with you because your stance is absolutely a joke. You gotta be trolling to make that outlandish claim....

 

I will say this. You are well skilled at addressing miniscule comments in a forum members post while ignoring the actual focus of the post itself. I suppose that works on some, just not me.

 

So can you disagree with the actual focus of my post?

 

"After Jones and Parrish went down what deep speed did we have to respect at WR?"

"Other than SJ we don't have guys on this team that can get separation and have the ability to consistently go up and catch balls over their head or outside of their torso."

 

 

 

I for the most part agree. Eli has had 8 years of stability in scheme, talent, coaching, system and organization. He has also had probowl WRs and an elite defense keeping them in every game.

 

Fitz is the exact opposite in every way possible. It would be silly to try to compare them and use Eli's success to condemn Fitz.

 

The premise of your post is that Fitz can throw a decent deep ball. Your reply to teams pressing our WRs and taking away the short passes wHile not respecting our deep ball was to blame the WRs. I think the disrespect was for Fitz's lack of deep arm. Did I address your post well enough? Or was I being obtuse?

[thewildrabbit]

These arguments are all ridiculous. You are comparing apples to oranges. I love how guys want to blame one thing or another as the sole reason the Bills are not a good team. Fitz is no superstar, yet he is far better than the 10 years of garbage before him.

 

Eli impressed me this year, so you will not find me bad mouthing him. But he also has two of the best WR's in the league (and Manningham), 2 good RB's, a good O-line, and an amazing D-line....All things that the Bills DON'T have (Well, 2 RB's yes, just not at the same time yet). He has a good team, with good owners, a good GM, and even though I am not a fan, a decent coach.

 

IMO, Fitz proved that he can succeed if he has a solid team playing good football around him. He also proved at the end of the year that he can't carry the team, or win games on his own.

 

The Bottom line is that no one player alone is good enough to win a super bowl, not even a QB (Marino, or Brady this year, or Newton since despite his great play the panthers were one of the worst teams in the league). If the Bill's had a legitimate shot at a high potential "franchise" type QB, yeah they should go for it. In all likely hood they don't. The Bills need a solid 53 man roster, not just a QB. Even if we had the #1 or 2 overall pick and drafted a "franchise" QB, we would probably ruin them with the awful team around them. It's a 53 man roster, not 1 man.

 

Will we win a SB with Fitz? Seems unlikely. Can we start creating a competitive atmosphere and start making the playoffs while we look for that "special guy"? I think so

Very well said, basically spared me from this moronic argument about comparing Fitz to Eli Manning or any other QB on a good team.

 

 

Some here just love to argue and the others either love Fitz and defend him or hate the guy and bash him. Fitz is the starter, GET OVER IT!

Edited February 24, 2012 by Fear the Beard

[Bronc24]

Very well said, basically spared me from this moronic argument about comparing Fitz to Eli Manning or any other QB on a good team.

 

 

Some here just love to argue and the others either love Fitz and defend him or hate the guy and bash him. Fitz is the starter, GET OVER IT!

[/)

 

I'll suck it up when I have to. I'd love to see RGIII in a Bills uniform.

[PDaDdy]

Which is exactly why I ended the argument with you because your stance is absolutely a joke. You gotta be trolling to make that outlandish claim....

 

 

 

The premise of your post is that Fitz can throw a decent deep ball. Your reply to teams pressing our WRs and taking away the short passes wHile not respecting our deep ball was to blame the WRs. I think the disrespect was for Fitz's lack of deep arm. Did I address your post well enough? Or was I being obtuse?

 

 

Actually as usual you were obtuse. His deep ball was my first point of many. Not a premise. As usual you cherry picked the only one of many points that you thought you could argue. You ignored the statements I have made repeatedly regarding the stability, system and talent around Eli including an awesome defense that keeps him in every game which is the exact opposite of what Fitz has. Address those points if you really want to say something.

[Zulu Cthulhu]

To be fair, i wouldn't describe the Giants' D as a whole as "awesome." Across some measures, their defense was actually lacking. The pass rush certainly disrupted opposing QBs, though, especially late in the season.

 

It was Eli's play that actually kept the Giants And their defense in more games this past year, not the other way around.

[Bronc24]

Actually as usual you were obtuse. His deep ball was my first point of many. Not a premise. As usual you cherry picked the only one of many points that you thought you could argue. You ignored the statements I have made repeatedly regarding the stability, system and talent around Eli including an awesome defense that keeps him in every game which is the exact opposite of what Fitz has. Address those points if you really want to say something.

 

 

Pretty apparent everyone else has been doing that. You think the Giants D was the Ravens D of 2000. As just mentioned, they got hot at the right time but it was an Eli led offense that kept them in the playoff hunt. You'd take Fitz, I'd take Eli. Let's set up a poll and see what the board thinks?

[PDaDdy]

Pretty apparent everyone else has been doing that. You think the Giants D was the Ravens D of 2000. As just mentioned, they got hot at the right time but it was an Eli led offense that kept them in the playoff hunt. You'd take Fitz, I'd take Eli. Let's set up a poll and see what the board thinks?

 

How about we see what you think? Are you praising Eli for keeping them in the play off hunt by going 9 - 7 on the year and enduring a 1-6 stretch losing 4 straight in that run when the defense was injured? Nice job Eli!!

 

To be fair, i wouldn't describe the Giants' D as a whole as "awesome." Across some measures, their defense was actually lacking. The pass rush certainly disrupted opposing QBs, though, especially late in the season.

 

It was Eli's play that actually kept the Giants And their defense in more games this past year, not the other way around.

 

So it was Eli's play that kept them in the play off hunt going 1-6 when the defense was banged up? Again...GREAT job Eli! Wish we had a QB that could captain a 1-6 run when our defense was hurt...OH Wait...we already do!

[Bronc24]

I praise the Superbowl rings that every player on every team covets.

[Gugny]

How about we see what you think? Are you praising Eli for keeping them in the play off hunt by going 9 - 7 on the year and enduring a 1-6 stretch losing 4 straight in that run when the defense was injured? Nice job Eli!!

Actually, the difference between the Giants that had the 1-6 stretch and the Giants that dominated the postseason was the defense's improvement and their improved running game. Not that there's any point in comparing them, but Eli is about 10x the QB that Fitz is.

[PDaDdy]

Actually, the difference between the Giants that had the 1-6 stretch and the Giants that dominated the postseason was the defense's improvement and their improved running game. Not that there's any point in comparing them, but Eli is about 10x the QB that Fitz is.

 

Exactly how did you arrive at that 10x number when Eli was going 1-6 and as you say the Giants defense as well as the running game's improvement accounted for their regular and post season success?

 

I praise the Superbowl rings that every player on every team covets.

 

Another useless TROLL statement while cowardly avoiding discussing my points. Why do you bother other than to troll? If you don't have anything of value to say just read what other people that contribute have to say and try to learn something.

Edited February 24, 2012 by PDaDdy

[Bronc24]

Thanks for coming out! Remember to vote in our interactive poll before you leave!

[thebug]

Exactly how did you arrive at that 10x number when Eli was going 1-6 and as you say the Giants defense as well as the running game's improvement accounted for their regular and post season success?

 

 

 

Another useless TROLL statement while cowardly avoiding discussing my points. Why do you bother other than to troll? If you don't have anything of value to say just read what other people that contribute have to say and try to learn something.

 

 

The Giants could go 0-16 and Eli is still 10x the QB Fitz is. You are out of your mind!

[C.Biscuit97]

To be fair, i wouldn't describe the Giants' D as a whole as "awesome." Across some measures, their defense was actually lacking. The pass rush certainly disrupted opposing QBs, though, especially late in the season.

 

It was Eli's play that actually kept the Giants And their defense in more games this past year, not the other way around.

 

They gave up 13 points per game when they got healthy in the playoffs playing Rodgers and Brady. They were awesome in the postseason.

[PDaDdy]

The Giants could go 0-16 and Eli is still 10x the QB Fitz is. You are out of your mind!

 

So Eli threw for 240 TDs and 38,000+ yards in 2011? ROFLOL. How did I miss that? That is SOME season!

[Bronc24]

They gave up 13 points per game when they got healthy in the playoffs playing Rodgers and Brady. They were awesome in the postseason.

 

And the franchise QB led the game winning drive in the final 2 min.

[PDaDdy]

They gave up 13 points per game when they got healthy in the playoffs playing Rodgers and Brady. They were awesome in the postseason.

 

Oh now don't go bringing that up. It was Baby Eli's passion and fire you can read on his face that brought them success in the post season and his 240TDs and 38,000+ yards because he is 10x the QB Fitz is! It had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with 8 years of stability, pro bowl WRs and a awesome defense. IT WAS ALL ELI!!!

[C.Biscuit97]

And the franchise QB led the game winning drive in the final 2 min.

 

Again, he sucked balls in 2007 and got carried by his defense to a title. his defense shut down Brady and Rodgers to a tune of 13 points a game in the playoffs. I'm no expert but I think you have a decent shot at winning if you only give up 13 points a game.

 

My whole main point that people took off track was not to compare Fitz to Eli. Eli is the more physically gifted QB. My main point is that Eli plays on a much, much better team. The Bills need to make the team around Fitz better. If Eli was throwing to our receivers with our defense, he doesn't sniff the playoffs despite how impressive his 9-7 record in an overrated NFC East was.

 

Oh now don't go bringing that up. It was Baby Eli's passion and fire you can read on his face that brought them success in the post season and his 240TDs and 38,000+ yards because he is 10x the QB Fitz is! It had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with 8 years of stability, pro bowl WRs and a awesome defense. IT WAS ALL ELI!!!

 

Exactly. IF Fitz was playing on a team that was giving up 13 points a game and losing, that's one thing. But completely killing a guy for goign 6-10 with no high draft pick receivers and a defense that almost gave up 30 points a game is stupid and ill placed.

[Gugny]

Exactly how did you arrive at that 10x number when Eli was going 1-6 and as you say the Giants defense as well as the running game's improvement accounted for their regular and post season success?

 

 

 

Another useless TROLL statement while cowardly avoiding discussing my points. Why do you bother other than to troll? If you don't have anything of value to say just read what other people that contribute have to say and try to learn something.

You are absolutely right. I misspoke. Eli is, at a minimum, 50x better than Fitz. Look ... I like Fitz a lot and I'm more of a homer than I even want to be. But there's no argument to be had when you're putting Eli vs. Fitz toe-to-toe. Come on.