jjmac Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 You're describing Hightower more so than Upshaw. Upshaw is the playmaker of the Alabama LB corps. Hightower, especially against Georgia Southern, took off plays and was a step slower than an FCS option team. Obviously, pros will be bigger and faster than a college option team. Upshaw has been more consistent in each Bama game that I watched this year. As far as his pass defending, that is an unknown because he did not drop into pass coverage much. I do remember him having an INT return for a TD against Florida this year. As far as questioning his ability to get sacks and hurry the QB, you're way off base. Led the team in sacks, led the team in tackles for loss, BCS Championship Defensive MVP. That says a lot. Alabama plays a similar style "hybrid" defense that the Bills are going for. As others have said, Upshaw is versatile enough to fill the Bills OLB role effectively. If we stay in the hybrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Who? The debate was about Von Miller being a top ten pick last year, and he did pretty well this year as the #2 pick. Upshaw accomplished a great deal in college. He has proven himself against the best competition. Yes, we can go OT if one is there and come back to get a DE in the 2nd round. You can debate that. The Bills have many holes to fill, but Upshaw will be a huge asset on D for the team that gets him. My point was general...Every Draft there are perennial Pro-Bowl Players available at #10...I'm not a genie, or an NFL Scout...But I promise you there will be a few perennial Pro-Bowlers available at #10, and it's just my opinion...that's all...but I don't think Upshaw will be one of them...If The Bills Draft him at #10, I hope I'm wrong... If you want more specific names I would absolutely take Jonathan Martin, Alshon Jeffery, and Micheal Floyd (assuming he can stay off the freaking booze) ahead of Upshaw...I'm sure there will be more names by April... To me, The Bills Drafting Upshaw at #10 would be akin to when the Chiefs Drafted Tyson Jackson at #3 Overall a few years back...You'll get a decent Player...But there will be a few you pass at other Positions that will be MUCH better down the line...And again that is strictly my opinion based on what I've seen over the past couple years...There are plenty around here who are not impressed with Alshon Jeffery...I think he's going to be the next Larry Fitzgerald...we'll see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjmac Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 My point was general...Every Draft there are perennial Pro-Bowl Players available at #10...I'm not a genie, or an NFL Scout...But I promise you there will be a few perennial Pro-Bowlers available at #10, and it's just my opinion...that's all...but I don't think Upshaw will be one of them...If The Bills Draft him at #10, I hope I'm wrong... If you want more specific names I would absolutely take Jonathan Martin, Alshon Jeffery, and Micheal Floyd (assuming he can stay off the freaking booze) ahead of Upshaw...I'm sure there will be more names by April... To me, The Bills Drafting Upshaw at #10 would be akin to when the Chiefs Drafted Tyson Jackson at #3 Overall a few years back...You'll get a decent Player...But there will be a few you pass at other Positions that will be MUCH better down the line...And again that is strictly my opinion based on what I've seen over the past couple years...There are plenty around here who are not impressed with Alshon Jeffery...I think he's going to be the next Larry Fitzgerald...we'll see... A lot of that depends on who throws the ball to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 A lot of that depends on who throws the ball to him. No question... And as a Bills Fan who has always had serious reservations about Fitz it surprises even me that I would prefer The Bills take Jeffery if he's there at #10...But I think no matter who The Bills trot out at QB, Jeffery will be a HUGE addition...And I'm assuming Stevie will be back...Which I realize is not a given...But if so that would give The Bills SJ, Jeffery, Nelson, and probably Easley at 1-4...That's pretty strong...Add Freddie, CJ, and Chandler...Now you're building a Playoff caliber Offense...If there is a Defensive Player available at #10 that can have the same sort of impact Jeffery can for The Bills then I'm all for it...But I don't see that guy in this Draft...And The Bills don't Trade up or down...So...I'm hoping for Jeffery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Who said that, where and when??? No idea, but wouldn't it be par for the course to pass on a blue chip OLB that can actually play the position when they have a golden opportunity because the love of a system trumps talent again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 To the people saying that Upshaw isn't the pass rusher we're looking for: Alabama's defense faced the fewest snaps of any defense among the top pass rushing prospects by a significant amount. There were simply less plays and less pass rushing situations for Upshaw to really get after the QB. Still, he finishes 2nd in all of college football in negative plays per snap (Sacks & tackles for loss). That sounds like the disruptive player we need at LB. Sammy Brown ( 1045 - 13.5 sacks / 30TFL) - 1 sack / 77.4 - 1 TFL / 34.83 snaps - 1 neg play / 24.02 snaps Upshaw (720 snaps 10 sacks / 18TFL ) 1 sack/ 72 snaps - 1 TFL/40 snaps - 1 negative play/ 25.7 snaps Vinny Curry ( 930 - 11 sacks / 22 TFL) 1 sack / 84.54 - 1 TFL / 42.27 - 1 neg play / 28.18 snaps Mercilus (842 snaps 16 sacks / 22.5) 1 sack/ 52.6 snaps - 1 TFL/37.42 snaps - 1 negative play / 29.54 snaps Melvin Ingram (835 snaps - 10 sacks/ 15 TFL) 1 sack / 83.5 snaps - 1 TFL/ 55.67 - I neg play / 33.4 snaps Andre Branch ( 986 - 10.5 sacks / 17 TFL) 1 sack / 93.9 snaps - 1 TFL / 58 snaps - 1 neg play / 35.85 snaps Nick Perry (826 snaps - 9.5 sacks / 13 TFL) 1 sack / 86.94 snaps - 1 TFL / 63.5 - 1 neg play / 36.71 Quinton Coples ( 907 snaps - 7.5 sacks / 15 TFL) 1 sack / 120.93 - 1 TFL / 60.47 - 1 neg play / 40.31 snaps - not my work. Taken from another Bills MB. compliments of admarc. Just thought I would share this with you guys to give you an idea of how these guys stack up. I think its a little interesting the Coples is at the bottom of this list. He may have the ideal size but football is about more then ideal size. Too many question marks with that kid to spend a top 10 pick on him Thank you, very interesting stats!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I still think Reiff is gonna fall to us Notice, Mel thinks the Fish take him, meaning he would play RT - no way he replaces Jake Long. And that my friends is what he'll be in the NFL. If we're looking for a true LT, "move along please, move a long . . . " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Notice, Mel thinks the Fish take him, meaning he would play RT - no way he replaces Jake Long. And that my friends is what he'll be in the NFL. If we're looking for a true LT, "move along please, move a long . . . " Jake Long is one of the best LTs in the game, if not the best. If Reiff was drafted by the Bills he could be a quality LT for us and better than what we have now. Each team has different circumstances affecting how and where you play players. What might not be the best situation for one team might be a good situation for another. The Bills have a number of position needs. If a higher rated OT is on the board than LB/DE then I would have no problem taking an OT. What this team desperately needs to do is make their picks count. I thought they did an excellent job drafting last year, better than the prior year. Not all needs are going to be met in one draft. The way to improve is to add talent to the team regardless of positin (for the most part) and continue to work to upgrade the roster. Drafting for needs and over-reaching is a recipe for disaster. That is how you end up with a Maybin pick. Too much attention is paid to the first pick. The real value picks come into play in the second and third round selections. The first round selection should mostly focus on the talent level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Notice, Mel thinks the Fish take him, meaning he would play RT - no way he replaces Jake Long. And that my friends is what he'll be in the NFL. If we're looking for a true LT, "move along please, move a long . . . " Agreed... I wonder what The Bills would do should Martin drop top them...Which admittedly is looking less likely by the day...But Reiff to me will be out of The Bills consideration...He's a duplication of talent...Good Player, but not at a need area... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smapdi Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Im not sold on Reiff or Martin with the 10th pick. I think there are a couple pretty good LTs we cam snag in the 2nd or 3rd. The Datko kid out of Florida St is interesting. Im of the opinion that we need to go defensive front 7 with the our 10th pick. We need an impact pass rusher period. The NFL is a passing league now and if your defense can't disrupt the QB and cause him some pain, its not very useful. I still think Upshaw is a match made in heaven for this team. Big, mean OLB built like a rock that led the National Championship defense in sacks and was the MVP of National Championship game which is defense totally dominated. He also finished 2nd of all the major pass rushing prospects in impact plays (Sacks & Tackles for loss per play). Alabama's defense was so good this year, they only faced 720 snaps. Meaning Upshaw had less opportunities to get sacks. When you level the playing field with the negative plays per snap, Upshaw rises to the top. He is an extremely hard worker and the closest thing to a "Sure thing" in the draft. His floor is very high and he has the ceiling to become a Terrell Suggs type player from the OLB spot. I just don't think Upshaw should be punished in some posters eyes because his defense was so dominant that he had less opportunities to get sacks. He also provides leader ship. Like it or not, OLB is the biggest need on this defense. We need 2 new starting OLB's. I am not counting on Merriman for anything and I think Kelsay should not be an every down OLB. We need a couple dynamic pass rushers to take advantage of the double teams that a healthy Kyle Willams and Marcell Dareus will be eating up play after play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloaggie Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) In his MOCK 2.0, Kiper still has the Bills taking Upshaw This is another pick that I'm staying with for now. The pass rush still needs a lot of help, and Upshaw is currently the best 3-4 outside linebacker in the draft. Even as Buffalo looks to shift that defense to a 4-3 (see Denver's draft strategy at No. 2 last year) Upshaw can still easily fit. Don't pass talent because of small scheme questions. He should be able to apply a lot of pressure to opposing quarterbacks from the edge for whoever gets him for 2012. Remember, nobody on the Bills managed more than 5.5 sacks in 2011, and as a team, they simply haven't been able to get pressure unless they bring numbers. This is an energetic talent, an edge linebacker in the mold of a more athletic LaMarr Woodley, a guy who has been well-coached and can start early. Coples to Jax at #7, Ingram and Martin go #12 and #13 respectively. He has only RG3 and Luck going in the first round at QB. Top ten is the same except for Brockers DT LSU replacing Dre Kirkpatrick. Not surprisingly, he has the Bengals at 17 taking the drug busted Kirkpatrick. Edited February 15, 2012 by buffaloaggie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBD Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I think Upshaw is the no-brainer pick much like Dareus was last year. I think he is the closest thing to a "sure fire" prospect in this draft. 4 year starter at a powerhouse school in the SEC. National Championship MVP. He is built like a rock at 6'3", 270 LB. Just a ferocious hitter. A throwback LB IMO. The anti-thesis of Aaron Maybin. This team is so thin at OLB its scary. You can plug Upshaw in from day 1. Nix did pretty well the last time he took the defensive MVP of the National Championship game from Alabama (Dareus). He's more of a 2 year starter, and measured only 6'1" at the Senior Bowl. I don't think Upshaw has the size to play DE or the ability in space to play OLB in a 43 as an everydown player. He seems to be a perfect fit as a 34 OLB. I wouldn't hate it if he is the pick, but I'd be concerned about how they would plan to use him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloaggie Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 He's more of a 2 year starter, and measured only 6'1" at the Senior Bowl. I don't think Upshaw has the size to play DE or the ability in space to play OLB in a 43 as an everydown player. He seems to be a perfect fit as a 34 OLB. I wouldn't hate it if he is the pick, but I'd be concerned about how they would plan to use him. Elvis Dumervil at 5'11 260 has been pretty effective at DE. I don't think Upshaw will have an issue with his size having 2 1/2 inches and 13 lbs on Dumervil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I know you people won't believe it until you see it, but Courtney Upshaw will do just fine in a 4-3 defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Courtney Upshaw is NOT a top 10 pick.... here's an every play video from the LSU championship game. i myself think he projects better at inside LB.....he's not fast enough for OLB and not strong enough to play DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Courtney Upshaw is NOT a top 10 pick.... here's an every play video from the LSU championship game. i myself think he projects better at inside LB.....he's not fast enough for OLB and not strong enough to play DE. youtube.com/watch?v=N2NGJD_naF0 I say follow the Giants' blueprint. First rule is you don't pick players who don't have the proper NFL size to fit the position you're drafting for. You DON'T draft Upshaw thinking he'll follow the LONE exception to the rule as in the case of Dwight Freeney. I could see the Bills either picking a guy like Michael Floyd, the perfect tall-sized receiver to put opposite Stevie Johnson, or if they do go DE, they'll pick Whitney Mercilus who has the perfect size to play 4-3 DE. I don't see them going OLB, OL or CB in the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I know you people won't believe it until you see it, but Courtney Upshaw will do just fine in a 4-3 defense. I Agree. And I assume you mean as an OLB? Too many folks here are stuck in a mindset that says 4-3 == Tampa2 4-3 where the LB's tend to be small cover guys. That's not the "standard" 4-3, that I am assuming Wanny has in mind. It might be instructive to look back at some of his prior defenses and see what sort of athletes he was looking for at the various spots. I say follow the Giants' blueprint. First rule is you don't pick players who don't have the proper NFL size to fit the position you're drafting for. You DON'T draft Upshaw thinking he'll follow the LONE exception to the rule as in the case of Dwight Freeney. I could see the Bills either picking a guy like Michael Floyd, the perfect tall-sized receiver to put opposite Stevie Johnson, or if they do go DE, they'll pick Whitney Mercilus who has the perfect size to play 4-3 DE. I don't see them going OLB, OL or CB in the first. Upshaw is bigger than Freeney, but I am not even projecting him to 4-3 DE - I'm lining him up as a 4-3 OLB who can both blitz and play the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Courtney Upshaw is NOT a top 10 pick.... here's an every play video from the LSU championship game. i myself think he projects better at inside LB.....he's not fast enough for OLB and not strong enough to play DE. youtube.com/watch?v=N2NGJD_naF0 Yeah, anyone who wins the Defensive MVP award must not have had a good game... Not fast enough, but chases down the RB on a pitchout at the 45sec mark. I'm only 1 min into the video and he has been in on EVERY play so far. Not sure this video helps your point. Edited February 15, 2012 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syrcuse315 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Ill admit that I have defnitely not been on the Upshaw bandwagon but I have to admit that idk if there is a more surefire pick when it comes to this draft than him. So many good players end up coming out of the later rounds of the draft or at least better than many taken before them, and with 9 total picks Buffalo has the opportunity to add a lot of young talent to this team. Having 9 picks this year is perfect given our lack of depth. One thing to keep in mind is that given our DE situation and how bad it is, we can take guys in later rounds that are still upgrades from what we have. Giving some young guys many people passed on an opportunity to play and earn time on the field can end up developing them into a better player. (By no means am I saying wait until the later rounds to take a DE because I want Vinny Curry in the second regardless) We know Upshaw can get to the passer and just flat out play football so even if we are switching to a 4 man front it doesn't matter. A guy like him who can fit into so many schemes also might allow Wannstead to draw up some nice blitz packages with a guy like upshaw for offenses to worry about. Also I know this isn't a stat but I don't think anyone packs more power per hit/tackle than this guy does and he plays against the run like an immovable object for offensive lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 First of all does anybody have an accuracy hit rate on these popular mock drafts? Are these guys right HALF the time? I honestly don't know, but I do know that the national media usually has no idea of what's going on with our team, even when we're winning. Chan has indicated in the past month that we're going to likely install an EVEN number on the front line. This doesn't mean 2 folks, it means they're going to favor a 4-3, consistent with Wanny's experience. The problem is this draft doesn't seem to be very strong with 4-3 pass rushers, true defensive ends like Coples, who might not be there when we pick anyway. So we have Dareus' old teammate Upshaw who seems very solid at LB but isn't an NFL sackmaster by any means. (6'2, short arms, always played 3-4) So here we go again with the Best Player Available debate. We need better QB pressure (as do the vast majority of teams in the league) and we have the 10th overall pick. In a 4-3 that means you need a stud DE, NOT a linebacker like Upshaw. But he's probably the best FRONT 7 guy on the board after Miami picks. Kiper thinks they'll take him anyway and probably hope we get a top 5 DE that works out in the second round. I don't agree. I think Nix is going to roll the dice on the best big DE available and get his 4-3 LB in the second round. We need another draft year like last year, I hope the scouting department comes through for us here..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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