McShays Latest Mock

[PDaDdy]

Well I don't necessarily disagree with your points I do want to point out that mcshay IS scouts inc.

 

Really? I tried looking that up. Do you have any information on that? If McShay IS Scouts Inc then it is not the source of independently evaluated talent that I thought it was.

[1billsfan]

I don't want a "hybrid" OLB/DE player. I like Upshaw, but I'm very concern about either position he'd play in this defense.

 

OLB - is he going to have to cover Gronk with his lack of height and short arm length? Yeah, good luck with that.

 

DE - opposing QBs will have absolutely no fear of a batted ball at the LOS.

 

Sorry, I just don't see him being the great pass rusher that they are looking for.

Edited February 9, 2012 by 1billsfan

[section122]

Really? I tried looking that up. Do you have any information on that? If McShay IS Scouts Inc then it is not the source of independently evaluated talent that I thought it was.

yep. Not to say the info is bad or not credible but his mock is directly drawn from his rankings.

http://www.espnmediazone3.com/us/2010/03/10/mcshay_todd/

quoted from the article

 

McShay is the director of college football scouting for ESPN Scouts Inc., where he has been evaluating prospects for the NFL Draft since 1998

 

Prior to joining ESPN, McShay worked full-time for “The War Room,” (1999-2006), a start-up scouting publication created by former NFL scout Gary Horton. It soon became a crosscheck for 16 NFL scouting departments and a go-to-source of information for CBS and The Sporting News. ESPN purchased the business in 2006 and changed the name to Scouts Inc.

[Ramius]

Really? I tried looking that up. Do you have any information on that? If McShay IS Scouts Inc then it is not the source of independently evaluated talent that I thought it was.

 

I tried looking it up as well, and all i could find was a couple of the scouts, inc "directors." They all had experience, but the article dealt with ranking high school players for recruiting. They all are ESPN employees.

[GG]

"Reach" and "draft value" are 2 of the most idiotic terms thrown about when it comes to draft analisys.

 

True. True.

 

Draft equity is the golden rule.

[jjmac]

I think we're going to make a serious go at Mario Williams.

 

And if we land him? All these mocks will have to go back to the drawing board, because we'll be taking the best WR available.

 

Will we be able to afford a FA contract that size?

Edited February 9, 2012 by jjmac

[atlbillsfan1975]

I'd be happy with the Upshaw pick.

 

I don't care if the Bills go out and get Mario Williams. I'd still take Upshaw.

 

I'd be delightfully stunned to see that happen, but you can never have enough pass rushing talent. Hoard it like it's gold.

exactly, just ask the Giants!!!!

[Best Player Available]

I like that Upshaw has been an extremely productive player on a team that plays high level competition for more than one season. I do have a little concern withhis size and if he canplay DE in a 4-3, but I rate productivity over measurables in my evaluations. He has been productive. Has anyone heard what Dareus has said about him, if anything. They played together last year and his input would be valuable.

I also like that his home town - EUFAULA, AL -- almost reads like BUFFALO, NY Not sure the weather will be similar.

Dareus after the season ended said he would really want him to be a Bill. I believe he has made that known to the Bills for what it's worth. Don't remember the article could have been the Buffalo news.

[Astrobot]

 

 

So what say you guys?

 

I say the Bills would do well to add Upshaw. As I said last week on DraftTek when the computer picked Upshaw as BPA, "Well-rounded" seemed to be a derogatory label in high school, but it's what the Bills need at OLB/DE. Upshaw's Senior Bowl practices and game play highlighted his value, not only as a pass-rusher but also for setting the edge against the run. Sure, both Coples and Upshaw had 3 tackles, 2 for a loss, and 1 sack each in the Senior Bowl, but given the choice for the playoff-starved Bills, I'd opt for Upshaw's competitive blaze over Coples' flash and sizzle, particularly after Coples' underwhelming year. Upshaw is the sure thing if you're looking for 3-down aggression and 10 sacks per year. During Senior Bowl week, we saw Upshaw secure the edge well against this year's best, and all year we've seen the variety of pass rush moves (arm-over, arm-under, fake outside-go inside, swim, club, and good hand-fighting technique) that ice Upshaw's position in the Top 10. One Scout at the Senior Bowl said it best: "You play sic ’em defense, he’ll sic ’em.”

 

I don't want a "hybrid" OLB/DE player. I like Upshaw, but I'm very concern about either position he'd play in this defense.

 

OLB - is he going to have to cover Gronk with his lack of height and short arm length? Yeah, good luck with that.

 

DE - opposing QBs will have absolutely no fear of a batted ball at the LOS.

 

Sorry, I just don't see him being the great pass rusher that they are looking for.

In Round 2 (after taking Upshaw in the first to secure the edge and play next to his Tide teammate Dareus), I'm hoping for a sideline to sideline OLB with speed and clout. My three are:

 

Vinny Curry---if he's still there, and we're projecting he will be, but this is pre-combine

Ronnell Lewis---hits like a ton of bricks. Oklahoma DE would be a OLB43

Travis Lewis

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I want Coples but no part of Ingram

 

like Upshaw but think he falls in this draft

What?! you're nuts, Ingram over Coples all day. I'll take a guy who is just as productive and doesn't need a coach up his butt to motivate him.

 

That being said I would love for Coples to fall to us. I don't buy the "he played not to get hurt" and "inconsistent motor" BS. The guy is a beast! You can't teach that but you can motivate it. Let's not talk ourselves out of the next Orakpo like some of us did prior to the ?2009? draft. Of course nobody expected Maybin instead but just sayin.

 

Did you watch him play? Every time I saw him I was hoping he would be great and all I saw was half assed effort. No Thanks.

[JohnC]

I say the Bills would do well to add Upshaw. As I said last week on DraftTek when the computer picked Upshaw as BPA, "Well-rounded" seemed to be a derogatory label in high school, but it's what the Bills need at OLB/DE. Upshaw's Senior Bowl practices and game play highlighted his value, not only as a pass-rusher but also for setting the edge against the run. Sure, both Coples and Upshaw had 3 tackles, 2 for a loss, and 1 sack each in the Senior Bowl, but given the choice for the playoff-starved Bills, I'd opt for Upshaw's competitive blaze over Coples' flash and sizzle, particularly after Coples' underwhelming year. Upshaw is the sure thing if you're looking for 3-down aggression and 10 sacks per year. During Senior Bowl week, we saw Upshaw secure the edge well against this year's best, and all year we've seen the variety of pass rush moves (arm-over, arm-under, fake outside-go inside, swim, club, and good hand-fighting technique) that ice Upshaw's position in the Top 10. One Scout at the Senior Bowl said it best: "You play sic ’em defense, he’ll sic ’em.”

 

You make an excellent point in comparing Upshaw with Couples. There is not doubt that Couples can be a more dynamic player than Upshaw. But when it comes to being consistently competitive on all plays Upshaw is definitely going to be more dependable. I don't want to use a high draft pick on a player that I then have to worry about their consistent effort, especially when I know there is a plalyer available who you don't have to worry about over effort and preparation.

 

A long time ago during the Polian/Levy era the Bills were debating whether to draft the highly rated but more mercurial player, DT Jerome Brown, or to take LB Shane Conlan. When Polian brought up the issue to Levy and asked for his opinion Levy told him you need not ask which player is a better player but which player will make your team better. The Bills ended up drafting Conlan and the Eagles drafted Brown. Jerome Brown ended up getting killed in a tragic auto accident in which he was speeding. Shane Conlan ended up as an instrumental defensive player during the Bills' most successful era.

 

Let's not over think this pick. Take the more mature player who can be dependable right from the start.

Edited February 9, 2012 by JohnC

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Despite his detracters Coples appears to be EXACTLY what we need. I'm not a huge fan of moving up or even discussing it due to a realistic lack of trade partners. If we could however throw in one of our 2 or 3 extra picks this year to move up just ahead of the Dolphins and Panthers to say where the Jaguars sit at 7 I would not be pissed one bit.

I would, 3 picks to move up 3 spots? for who? Coples :lol: you guys are on crack today there is no one I'd give up 3 picks for except Luck.

 

I don't want a "hybrid" OLB/DE player. I like Upshaw, but I'm very concern about either position he'd play in this defense.

 

OLB - is he going to have to cover Gronk with his lack of height and short arm length? Yeah, good luck with that.

 

DE - opposing QBs will have absolutely no fear of a batted ball at the LOS.

 

Sorry, I just don't see him being the great pass rusher that they are looking for.

+1

[st pete gogolak]

You make an excellent point in comparing Upshaw with Couples. There is not doubt that Couples can be a more dynamic player than Upshaw. But when it comes to being consistently competitive on all plays Upshaw is definitely going to be more dependable. I don't want to use a high draft pick on a player that I then have to worry about their consistent effort, especially when I know there is a plalyer available who you don't have to worry about over effort and preparation.

 

A long time ago during the Polian/Levy era the Bills were debating whether to draft the highly rated but more mercurial player, DT Jerome Brown, or to take LB Shane Conlan. When Polian brought up the issue to Levy and asked for his opinion Levy told him you need not ask which player is a better player but which player will make your team better. The Bills ended up drafting Conlan and the Eagles drafted Brown. Jerome Brown ended up getting killed in a tragic auto accident in which he was speeding. Shane Conlan ended up as an instrumental defensive player during the Bills' most successful era.

 

Let's not over think this pick. Take the more mature player who can be dependable right from the start.

 

No offense to either Conlan or Brown but if we pick Brown (and actually hire at the same time a DC worth a damn who can see we have the most dominant 4-3 DE in the history of the game and instantaneously switch us to a 4-3 defense) we win one or two Super Bowls. I can't even begin to imagine the havoc Bruce Smith and Jerome Brown create playing next to each other in an aggressive 4-3 (with Talley and Biscuit at OLB). I defy you to tell me that team would not have won at least one Super Bowl.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

No offense to either Conlan or Brown but if we pick Brown (and actually hire at the same time a DC worth a damn who can see we have the most dominant 4-3 DE in the history of the game and instantaneously switch us to a 4-3 defense) we win one or two Super Bowls. I can't even begin to imagine the havoc Bruce Smith and Jerome Brown create playing next to each other in an aggressive 4-3 (with Talley and Biscuit at OLB). I defy you to tell me that team would not have won at least one Super Bowl.

Yeah 43, there was no way in hell we were playing a 43 back then, there was no hybrib or anything like that and most teams were 34 back then.

 

That said I doubt he would have that much difference in winning SBs.

[Koufax]

I think we're going to make a serious go at Mario Williams.

 

And if we land him? All these mocks will have to go back to the drawing board, because we'll be taking the best WR available.

 

If we sign Mario Williams and if the top WR is not as good a projected football player as the top DE/OLB, you pick the WR? Need more than one DE. I'm happy to take a positional need when two players are a tossup in terms of evaluation, but very tired of the idea of taking a need that is an inferior player. Three reasons for BPA:

 

1) few rookies have enough of a year 1 impact to really fill a year 1 hole even when that hole is clear. The ones who do are usually a pretty good candidate for BPA anyway

2) Forgetting year 1 need, if you pick the less talented player, that pick will add less to your football team over the first five years, and over that period your team will have less total talent

3) Perceived need is often incorrect or not as crucially needed as people feel it is.

[#34fan]

Cool! That means we have a shot at Dave Decastro! EXCELLENT RUN-BLOCKER. Let's get it done, FO! OFFENSE IS THE NEW DEFENSE!!!!!!

 

1)Dave DeCastro, OG Stanford

 

2)Whitney Mercilus, DE Illinois

 

3)Rishard Matthews, WR Nevada

 

4)Nate Potter, OT Boise State

 

5)Nick Provo, TE Syracuse

 

6)Don't Care.

 

7)Could give a crap.

[OldTimer1960]

The Bills need to target a guy who can get to the QB. Upshaw fits that bill. Solid smart move if they could land him.

 

 

Admittedly, I am not an NFL scout, but I have followed the draft for 20+ years. When I look at Upshaw, I don't see

a dynamite pass rusher. I see a try-hard guy whose main asset is tenacity and strength. He will be a fairly effective

bull-rusher, but he isn't going to remind anyone of Bruce Smith.

 

I would guess that he will be a 6-7 sack/year DE in the NFL who also plays the run pretty well. If he is to play

OLB in the 4-3, I see him as too unathletic and slow.

 

Would I be very unhappy with Upshaw at the 10th spot? No, not necessarily. I am just saying that he isn't going

to single-handedly improve the Bills' pass rush by an order of magnitude. BTW, I think Coples will be a better

pass rusher, but I don't think he will be a 12 sack/year guy, either.

 

Regarding Ingram, he looks like the quicker, faster athlete when compared to Upshaw and I think he'll be a bit

better pass rusher. However, I am not sure that he will be as good against the run as Upshaw will be. I don't

think he is a 4-3 OLB, either.

 

I don't know enough about Mercilus to comment, but I haven't seen him touted as a remote consideration as

high as the 10th pick.

[Jon in Pasadena]

Yeah 43, there was no way in hell we were playing a 43 back then, there was no hybrib or anything like that and most teams were 34 back then.

 

That said I doubt he would have that much difference in winning SBs.

Nope.

 

Assuming by "back then" you mean the superbowl years (early 1990's) there were a only a few teams using the 3-4 defense. In fact, other than Bills and Steelers, I'm hard-pressed to think of one. Maybe Niners or Broncs? I know the Giants used it back in '86 with LT, but they'd already switched to 4-3 by '91.

[FrankReichComeback]

Isn't it pretty silly to do a mock draft about three months BEFORE the actual draft? So much changes as far as team personnel, coaches, not to mention players whose stock rises or drops during combines and workouts. I remember looking at Kiper/McShay's early draft picks last year and some of them dropped big time. Never understood why people got excited for them in February

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Well I don't necessarily disagree with your points I do want to point out that mcshay IS scouts inc.

 

yep. Not to say the info is bad or not credible but his mock is directly drawn from his rankings.

http://www.espnmedia...10/mcshay_todd/

quoted from the article

 

McShay is the director of college football scouting for ESPN Scouts Inc., where he has been evaluating prospects for the NFL Draft since 1998

 

Prior to joining ESPN, McShay worked full-time for "The War Room," (1999-2006), a start-up scouting publication created by former NFL scout Gary Horton. It soon became a crosscheck for 16 NFL scouting departments and a go-to-source of information for CBS and The Sporting News. ESPN purchased the business in 2006 and changed the name to Scouts Inc.

McShay isn't the only person involved in Scouts Inc.

 

I once saw a list of their scouts and there is a handful of them including Gary Horton, David Thorpe, Dean Dalton, Doug Kretz, Keith Kidd and others.

 

A long time ago during the Polian/Levy era the Bills were debating whether to draft the highly rated but more mercurial player, DT Jerome Brown, or to take LB Shane Conlan. When Polian brought up the issue to Levy and asked for his opinion Levy told him you need not ask which player is a better player but which player will make your team better. The Bills ended up drafting Conlan and the Eagles drafted Brown. Jerome Brown ended up getting killed in a tragic auto accident in which he was speeding. Shane Conlan ended up as an instrumental defensive player during the Bills' most successful era.

 

Let's not over think this pick. Take the more mature player who can be dependable right from the start.

I understand and agree with your point but I don't agree with your example.

 

Had Jerome Brown played a full career, it's very likely that he would have made a much bigger splash than did Shane Conlan.

 

Even as it is now, there are probably a lot of informed NFL people who think Brown had a more significant career than Conlan.