If the Injury Bug hadn't bit

[Homey D. Clown]

In looking back at the season where the team started out quite deep at a few positions, and had some talent at a few others, they seemed to actually play better as the game wore on, but slowly as the injury bug hit, the strong finishes in games also seemed to fade away.

 

It seemed to have started with Shawn Merriman, and while there are a ton of those threads already where people don't think he was doing anything, I saw him as very effective with respect to how much attention he drew. Next other key players like Roscoe Parrish, Kyle Williams, and so on and so forth out for the season. Looking at our IR list is almost like looking at our opening day starting roster, it's staggering, so my question is, How do you feel the season would be so far given just a few key players weren't lost for the season on both sides of the ball?

 

Personally I think we're probably looking at a solid 8-4 record without all the injuries to most of our key players and positions, and just this alone has a lot to do with how the team has slid.

 

I find it hilarious how all of a sudden we see buddy Nix threads starting to pop up questioning whether or not he should be fired. I don't think you can place blame on him for what has happened to the team with regards to injuries, which I'd like to keep this thread based on(Bolded question)

 

If you want to bash Buddy Nix, or Shawn Merriman, please take that stuff somewhere else, If you want to post a few random Ralph is Cheap comments, feel free.

[Bob in STL]

In looking back at the season where the team started out quite deep at a few positions, and had some talent at a few others, they seemed to actually play better as the game wore on, but slowly as the injury bug hit, the strong finishes in games also seemed to fade away.

 

It seemed to have started with Shawn Merriman, and while there are a ton of those threads already where people don't think he was doing anything, I saw him as very effective with respect to how much attention he drew. Next other key players like Roscoe Parrish, Kyle Williams, and so on and so forth out for the season. Looking at our IR list is almost like looking at our opening day starting roster, it's staggering, so my question is, How do you feel the season would be so far given just a few key players weren't lost for the season on both sides of the ball?

 

Personally I think we're probably looking at a solid 8-4 record without all the injuries to most of our key players and positions, and just this alone has a lot to do with how the team has slid.

 

I find it hilarious how all of a sudden we see buddy Nix threads starting to pop up questioning whether or not he should be fired. I don't think you can place blame on him for what has happened to the team with regards to injuries, which I'd like to keep this thread based on(Bolded question)

 

If you want to bash Buddy Nix, or Shawn Merriman, please take that stuff somewhere else, If you want to post a few random Ralph is Cheap comments, feel free.

 

Great, anaother thread on hypotheticals that can never be proven.

 

One clear fact is that Buddy Nix went into this season with no experienced, veteran depth.

 

Curious decisions were made to not bring in more OLB help, to cut Jeff Hangartner, to trade Lee Evans. and to start the season with a rookie (Hairston) as the swing OT.

 

Those decisions are on Buddy Nix.

 

We are $20M under the salary cap - that decision is on Ralph, Overdorf, and Littman.

 

Injuries are part of the game. Yes, we would be a better team if all of our starters were still in the he line up. Sorry, not gonna play "what if".

[thurst44]

Great, anaother thread on hypotheticals that can never be proven.

 

One clear fact is that Buddy Nix went into this season with no experienced, veteran depth.

 

Curious decisions were made to not bring in more OLB help, to cut Jeff Hangartner, to trade Lee Evans. and to start the season with a rookie (Hairston) as the swing OT.

 

Those decisions are on Buddy Nix.

 

We are $20M under the salary cap - that decision is on Ralph, Overdorf, and Littman.

 

Injuries are part of the game. Yes, we would be a better team if all of our starters were still in the he line up. Sorry, not gonna play "what if".

"No experienced, veteran depth"???!!! First off, they are a young, rebuilding team, so by definition, this is a preposterous attack, but they also have Andra Davis, Dwan Edwards, Kirk Morrison, Bryan Scott, Spencer Johnson, etc. You can't seriously expect a rebuilding team to weather TEN significant injuries (including all four players who made the pro bowl last year or made the mid-season all-pro lists, one of whom having an mvp-caliber year), and suggest they're not going to miss a step. That's like telling an architect he should have planned better after a nuclear bomb hits his house.

[jkrules]

No doubt the team would be better without the injuries, how much, one can only speculate.

 

The defense on this team is killing them. You can point to the injuries but in the end good teams learn to overcome injuries.

 

IMO the problems are a lack of depth, poor coaching, poor scouting and unwilling to spend the money for the depth.

 

Until the management of the team changes their approach or the Bills have a new owner, nothing will change IMO.

[Homey D. Clown]

Great, anaother thread on hypotheticals that can never be proven.

 

One clear fact is that Buddy Nix went into this season with no experienced, veteran depth.

 

Curious decisions were made to not bring in more OLB help, to cut Jeff Hangartner, to trade Lee Evans. and to start the season with a rookie (Hairston) as the swing OT.

 

Those decisions are on Buddy Nix.

 

We are $20M under the salary cap - that decision is on Ralph, Overdorf, and Littman.

 

Injuries are part of the game. Yes, we would be a better team if all of our starters were still in the he line up. Sorry, not gonna play "what if".

 

Nobody held a gun to your head to post in my thread, which I'd like to share and hear the opinions of those who ask this particular question... Why even post a comment then? Just to be rude to others?

 

Two games for sure stand out in my mind that should have gone the other way, well, make that 3, cincinnatti, new jersey giants, and new jersey jests. A healthy Kyle Williams alone may have had an impact on those games. I still think it's early to lay blame on the GM just yet, I am looking forwards to the pivotal 3rd offseason where this team tries to get some real depth at a few positions. As for Lee Evans, I loved the guy, but I think having him here this season wouldn't have had any impact, I don't know what happened to him, but he seems to have really faded. I watched a few youtube highlight clips of the guy, and it's night and day between the 04-06 lee evans, and the 07-10 player. I do wish him well though if he can revive his career, great, I just didn't think his style of play fitted what Chan Gailey wants to do here.

[dollars 2 donuts]

In looking back at the season where the team started out quite deep at a few positions, and had some talent at a few others, they seemed to actually play better as the game wore on, but slowly as the injury bug hit, the strong finishes in games also seemed to fade away.

 

It seemed to have started with Shawn Merriman, and while there are a ton of those threads already where people don't think he was doing anything, I saw him as very effective with respect to how much attention he drew. Next other key players like Roscoe Parrish, Kyle Williams, and so on and so forth out for the season. Looking at our IR list is almost like looking at our opening day starting roster, it's staggering, so my question is, How do you feel the season would be so far given just a few key players weren't lost for the season on both sides of the ball?

 

Personally I think we're probably looking at a solid 8-4 record without all the injuries to most of our key players and positions, and just this alone has a lot to do with how the team has slid.

 

I find it hilarious how all of a sudden we see buddy Nix threads starting to pop up questioning whether or not he should be fired. I don't think you can place blame on him for what has happened to the team with regards to injuries, which I'd like to keep this thread based on(Bolded question)

 

If you want to bash Buddy Nix, or Shawn Merriman, please take that stuff somewhere else, If you want to post a few random Ralph is Cheap comments, feel free.

 

 

 

hmmm...If you give me back fully healthy with all of the games lost of Marcus Easely, Kyle Williams, Aaron Williams, Eric Wood and, I can't believe I am saying this, Chris Kelsay then I am with you at 8-4.

[Homey D. Clown]

hmmm...If you give me back fully healthy with all of the games lost of Marcus Easely, Kyle Williams, Aaron Williams, Eric Wood and, I can't believe I am saying this, Chris Kelsay then I am with you at 8-4.

 

 

I know, it's funny how well and how poorly Kelsay can play, at the same time, and in some instances, on the same play! It's like when you see water on fire....

Edited December 7, 2011 by McKinleys Curse

[CodeMonkey]

"If the Injury Bug hadn't bit" ... Yes I guess it is that time of year isn't it. The yearly rationalization of how injuries (and poor officiating) kept the Bills out of the playoff hunt (realistically if not mathematically) by December.

 

I dare to dream of the year that I don't have to see a "If the Injury Bug hadn't bit" type excuse thread in December.

[The AntiFin]

How do you feel the season would be so far given just a few key players weren't lost for the season on both sides of the ball?

I think we'd be very close to where we are now. Most teams in the league have been bitten by that same injury bug, due, in my opinion, to lack of proper strength and conditioning in the offseason because of the lockout. If we're going to imagine the Bills at full strength, we have to imagine our record while considering that all teams we've faced were at full strength, too.

[Cash]

"If the Injury Bug hadn't bit" ... Yes I guess it is that time of year isn't it. The yearly rationalization of how injuries (and poor officiating) kept the Bills out of the playoff hunt (realistically if not mathematically) by December.

 

I dare to dream of the year that I don't have to see a "If the Injury Bug hadn't bit" type excuse thread in December.

+1. Every team has injuries, they're a part of the game. Once in a blue moon you'll get lucky and stay pretty healthy in a given year, but those injuries will be back next year. Ask the 2010 Packers about injuries (including our new friend Nick Barnett). Besides, if anyone can B word about injuries this year, it's not us. It's Chicago, then Indy, then Houston, then Oakland, then KC.

[T master]

"If the Injury Bug hadn't bit" ... Yes I guess it is that time of year isn't it. The yearly rationalization of how injuries (and poor officiating) kept the Bills out of the playoff hunt (realistically if not mathematically) by December.

 

I dare to dream of the year that I don't have to see a "If the Injury Bug hadn't bit" type excuse thread in December.

 

I know excuses are like butt holes every ones got one & they usually stink !! But that being said are you going to tell me that if you take the Patriots & take away -

 

Vince Wilfork , Wes Welker , Jerod Mayo , Patrick Chung , Rob Gronkowski , Logan Mankins or Matt Light , Ben Jarvis Green Ellis , Shaun Ellis , Jullian Eddleman , & Danny Woodhead that they would be the same Patriots ????

 

I DON'T THINK SO !!!! That is basically what happened to the Bills this year & i'm not trying to make excuses but i can i some way see with no depth (which i again say that both Nix & Gailey have said was a problem) that the lose of the players we have lost this season it was & has caused a problem !!!!!!

 

You can loose a couple of key players & survive with depth but when you lose 10 or more it is near impossible to pull out a winning season !!!!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Great, anaother thread on hypotheticals that can never be proven.

 

One clear fact is that Buddy Nix went into this season with no experienced, veteran depth.

 

Curious decisions were made to not bring in more OLB help, to cut Jeff Hangartner, to trade Lee Evans. and to start the season with a rookie (Hairston) as the swing OT.

 

Those decisions are on Buddy Nix.

 

We are $20M under the salary cap - that decision is on Ralph, Overdorf, and Littman.

 

Injuries are part of the game. Yes, we would be a better team if all of our starters were still in the he line up. Sorry, not gonna play "what if".

As for Hangartner, I don't agree. Urbik missed two games early and Rinehart played well and the team didn't miss a beat. Later, with injuries at OT, they moved Levitre to OT and Urbik and Rinehart were fine.

 

The mistake, IMO was when Wood was injured, they moved Levitre to center. Clearly he had a poor game there making the long snaps. Urbik has looked natural there and Levitre and Rinehart are fine at guard. The Bills are down Eric Wood and still can man the interior with Levitre, Urbik and Rinehart. They're solid 4 in the interior without the injury.

 

I doubt there's a team in the league which goes more than 4 deep on the interior. With the possible exception of one game, I don't think the team misses Hangartner.

 

As far as starting the season with a rookie at swing tackle, that is true and it sucks that Bell got injured and that Hairston was injured for several weeks at the same time.

 

It's also true that Hairston has played better than Mansfield Wrotto or Cordaro Howard were playing last season so we're actually improved at that position. By virtue of the simple fact that both Pears and Bell are free agents, the Bills are forced to address this position this next offseason but their tackle play is improved over last year.

 

I think we'd be very close to where we are now. Most teams in the league have been bitten by that same injury bug, due, in my opinion, to lack of proper strength and conditioning in the offseason because of the lockout. If we're going to imagine the Bills at full strength, we have to imagine our record while considering that all teams we've faced were at full strength, too.

The Bills have more players on IR than any other team so I disagree with your first sentence.

 

Some of those players were insignificant but others were pretty pivotal.

 

For significant periods of time, they have lost their starting left tackle (Bell), and at the same time, their top swing tackle (Hairston), their best interior D-lineman (Kyle Williams), their presumed pass rusher (Merriman), the best player on offense (Jackson), and an excellent interior O-lineman in Eric Wood.

 

Then you factor in the wide receiver corps where a huge quantity of players have gone on IR (Parrish, Easley, Jones, Huggins). None of these guys by themselves are world beaters but as a group, when you suffer this many losses and the QB has to now familiarize himself with a whole new cast… well it's gonna affect offensive performance.

 

There may be 1-2 teams which have suffered a total injury loss equal to the Bills but I definitely do not agree that "most teams have been bitten by the same injury bug." That's not accurate.

 

 

 

 

[Dopey]

"No experienced, veteran depth"???!!! First off, they are a young, rebuilding team, so by definition, this is a preposterous attack, but they also have Andra Davis, Dwan Edwards, Kirk Morrison, Bryan Scott, Spencer Johnson, etc. You can't seriously expect a rebuilding team to weather TEN significant injuries (including all four players who made the pro bowl last year or made the mid-season all-pro lists, one of whom having an mvp-caliber year), and suggest they're not going to miss a step. That's like telling an architect he should have planned better after a nuclear bomb hits his house.

[PDaDdy]

In looking back at the season where the team started out quite deep at a few positions, and had some talent at a few others, they seemed to actually play better as the game wore on, but slowly as the injury bug hit, the strong finishes in games also seemed to fade away.

 

It seemed to have started with Shawn Merriman, and while there are a ton of those threads already where people don't think he was doing anything, I saw him as very effective with respect to how much attention he drew. Next other key players like Roscoe Parrish, Kyle Williams, and so on and so forth out for the season. Looking at our IR list is almost like looking at our opening day starting roster, it's staggering, so my question is, How do you feel the season would be so far given just a few key players weren't lost for the season on both sides of the ball?

 

Personally I think we're probably looking at a solid 8-4 record without all the injuries to most of our key players and positions, and just this alone has a lot to do with how the team has slid.

 

I find it hilarious how all of a sudden we see buddy Nix threads starting to pop up questioning whether or not he should be fired. I don't think you can place blame on him for what has happened to the team with regards to injuries, which I'd like to keep this thread based on(Bolded question)

 

If you want to bash Buddy Nix, or Shawn Merriman, please take that stuff somewhere else, If you want to post a few random Ralph is Cheap comments, feel free.

 

Obviosuly without "UNEXPECTED" injuries to players we would be a much better team and the record would reflect that. The obvious "EXPECTED" injuries like Shaw "Good Gamble" Merriman, which was pretty much a 100% guarantee, should have been accounted for with contingency plans. The way Maybin is playing in NY when he was finally given playing time should have been our contingency plan.

 

How do you NOT give a first round draft pick significant playing time in 3 years to see what he has ON THE FIELD! Practice? We're talking about practice? For those that excuse it away by saying he didn't show enough in practice is a joke. Apparently the Jets "saw something in practice"! Wish we had guys watching our practices with those eyes and insight.

Edited December 7, 2011 by PDaDdy

[Mr. WEO]

In looking back at the season where the team started out quite deep at a few positions, and had some talent at a few others, they seemed to actually play better as the game wore on, but slowly as the injury bug hit, the strong finishes in games also seemed to fade away.

 

It seemed to have started with Shawn Merriman, and while there are a ton of those threads already where people don't think he was doing anything, I saw him as very effective with respect to how much attention he drew. Next other key players like Roscoe Parrish, Kyle Williams, and so on and so forth out for the season. Looking at our IR list is almost like looking at our opening day starting roster, it's staggering, so my question is, How do you feel the season would be so far given just a few key players weren't lost for the season on both sides of the ball?

 

We haven't won a game with Roscoe on the field in 2 years. What are you talking about?? Fantasize all you want about Merriman and then go back and watch the games--rarely doubled or drew more attention than his replacement. He lost more than a step.

 

hmmm...If you give me back fully healthy with all of the games lost of Marcus Easely, Kyle Williams, Aaron Williams, Eric Wood and, I can't believe I am saying this, Chris Kelsay then I am with you at 8-4.

 

How can we be "missing" Easley--he's never played a game for the Bills in the regular season in his 2 years in the (IR) NFL. Losing Aaron Williams (rookie backup) has cost us zero wins.

 

I know excuses are like butt holes every ones got one & they usually stink !! But that being said are you going to tell me that if you take the Patriots & take away -

 

Vince Wilfork , Wes Welker , Jerod Mayo , Patrick Chung , Rob Gronkowski , Logan Mankins or Matt Light , Ben Jarvis Green Ellis , Shaun Ellis , Jullian Eddleman , & Danny Woodhead that they would be the same Patriots ???? I DON'T THINK SO !!!! That is basically what happened to the Bills this year & i'm not trying to make excuses but i can i some way see with no depth (which i again say that both Nix & Gailey have said was a problem) that the lose of the players we have lost this season it was & has caused a problem !!!!!!

 

You can loose a couple of key players & survive with depth but when you lose 10 or more it is near impossible to pull out a winning season !!!!

 

This is not bascially what happened to the Bills. Our top 3 receivers are still playing (Stevie, Nelson, Chandler). Freddie went down after our November slide was underway (so did Wood).

[PDaDdy]

This is not bascially what happened to the Bills. Our top 3 receivers are still playing (Stevie, Nelson, Chandler). Freddie went down after our November slide was underway (so did Wood).

 

In preseason our top 4 WRs were Johnson, Evans, Easely and Parrish. We traded Evans away. Parrish gets hurt every year. Easely has basically yet to play for us in 2 or 3 years. Basically this means we traded away our #2(former #1) and history has shown that our #3 and #4 can't stay healthy. You can't expect so many injuries at one particular position unless their is a proven record of those injuries. I think that has been proven.

 

Trading Evans was just dumb. He has been hurt basically all year for Baltimore but he pretty much played every game for Buffalo in his time here. We would still be looking pretty damn good with Johnson and Evans together on the field. Nelson has been a nice surprise in the end zone but other than that we didn't put ourselves in a good position in the off season.

 

Scott Chandler again is another good surprise but he is a TE. I consider that a separate position and I don't lump them in with the WRs for the same reason I don't lump RBs into the WR position just because they catch passes too.

Edited December 7, 2011 by PDaDdy

[CodeMonkey]

I know excuses are like butt holes every ones got one & they usually stink !! But that being said are you going to tell me that if you take the Patriots & take away -

 

Vince Wilfork , Wes Welker , Jerod Mayo , Patrick Chung , Rob Gronkowski , Logan Mankins or Matt Light , Ben Jarvis Green Ellis , Shaun Ellis , Jullian Eddleman , & Danny Woodhead that they would be the same Patriots ????

 

I DON'T THINK SO !!!! That is basically what happened to the Bills this year & i'm not trying to make excuses but i can i some way see with no depth (which i again say that both Nix & Gailey have said was a problem) that the lose of the players we have lost this season it was & has caused a problem !!!!!!

 

You can loose a couple of key players & survive with depth but when you lose 10 or more it is near impossible to pull out a winning season !!!!

You pretty much did

[Just in Atlanta]

8-4 without all the injuries.

 

And 12-0 if we hadn't traded Maybin.

[Since 1972]

Would not every team be better if they didn't have the injuries they have??

[The AntiFin]

The Bills have more players on IR than any other team so I disagree with your first sentence.

Fair enough. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I just don't buy the injury excuse in any way, shape or form. Elite teams get through injuries (see Patriots, New England). We're not elite at this time -- but I hold out hope that we could be after a few more solid drafts (like the last one) and a number of key FA acquisitions.

 

I believe quality > quantity. Judging by your post, you go the other way. So I'll play devil's advocate: Three teams that lost one or two key players (not 14) and have crumbled:

 

• We needn't look much further than Peyton Manning. Sure, Joseph Addai has been injured much of the season, but he's always been a joke of a RB. I'm sure they've had other (more insignificant) injuries, but I find it hard to believe that the Colts wouldn't be fighting for a playoff spot right now with Peyton at the helm.
  
• The Bears were doing well until they lost Cutler and Forte. Those two lost players likely will end their playoff run. And of the two, Forte >>>> Cutler. That's TWO guys.
  
• The WAY-overrated Eagles were in contention until they lost Vick for three games. Vick was struggling a bit before the injury, but he has a rep for coming back strong. The Eagles have only four players on IR. With the exception of McCoy, Vick is the heart of the Eagles. (This was supposed to be the "dream team").
  

Some of those players were insignificant but others were pretty pivotal. For significant periods of time, they have lost their starting left tackle (Bell), and at the same time, their top swing tackle (Hairston), their best interior D-lineman (Kyle Williams), their presumed pass rusher (Merriman), the best player on offense (Jackson), and an excellent interior O-lineman in Eric Wood.

Again -- I don't disagree with some of the players you mentioned. Top three on IR: Kyle Williams, Freddie Jackson, Eric Wood. I'm not crying too much over the rest of them. The Senator has been a blow, but to my knowledge, he's not on IR. Merriman is done -- he WAS done. The OL did just fine without Bell. For the record, I really like Hairston -- that was a bigger blow, IMO. But I'm sticking with my top three as the real significant losses to this team. The rest are/were replaceable. Also, don't forget that Wood and Freddie went down toward the end of our November skid -- AKA we lost WITH them.

 

Then you factor in the wide receiver corps where a huge quantity of players have gone on IR (Parrish, Easley, Jones, Huggins). None of these guys by themselves are world beaters but as a group, when you suffer this many losses and the QB has to now familiarize himself with a whole new cast… well it's gonna affect offensive performance.

Agree that not one of those receivers excites me. Fitz barely had time to familiarize himself with Easley, and Parrish has been a fixture on Left Bench for years. Jones is newish, and Huggins -- meh. Fitz still has weapons in Stevie, Nelson and Chandler (yes, I know Chandler is out this week). I see no valid excuse here.

 

There may be 1-2 teams which have suffered a total injury loss equal to the Bills but I definitely do not agree that "most teams have been bitten by the same injury bug." That's not accurate.

You're entitled to your opinion. You value quantity; I value quality. Apples and oranges -- and highly subjective. Nobody's going to win a debate when both sides have completely different mindsets.