If the Injury Bug hadn't bit

[ko12010]

Great, anaother thread on hypotheticals that can never be proven.

One clear fact is that Buddy Nix went into this season with no experienced, veteran depth.

 

Curious decisions were made to not bring in more OLB help, to cut Jeff Hangartner, to trade Lee Evans. and to start the season with a rookie (Hairston) as the swing OT.

 

Those decisions are on Buddy Nix.

 

We are $20M under the salary cap - that decision is on Ralph, Overdorf, and Littman.

 

Injuries are part of the game. Yes, we would be a better team if all of our starters were still in the he line up. Sorry, not gonna play "what if".

 

That's essentially what a message board is for. Almost all of the threads on this forum are this way.

[Bob in STL]

"No experienced, veteran depth"???!!! First off, they are a young, rebuilding team, so by definition, this is a preposterous attack, but they also have Andra Davis, Dwan Edwards, Kirk Morrison, Bryan Scott, Spencer Johnson, etc. You can't seriously expect a rebuilding team to weather TEN significant injuries (including all four players who made the pro bowl last year or made the mid-season all-pro lists, one of whom having an mvp-caliber year), and suggest they're not going to miss a step. That's like telling an architect he should have planned better after a nuclear bomb hits his house.

 

No experienced veteran depth on the OL, at WR, or at OLB. Not to mention QB ans TE. Yes, I expect more.

 

 

BTW -- At the start of the season Davis and Edwards were starters, not backups. That leaves three players on your list of experienced back ups.

 

Pathetic, even for a perenially rebuilding team.

 

Morrison is a vet backup, probabaly will not be around next season

 

Scott has a roll on the team, no complaints.

 

Spencer was a back up DE that is now starting at OLB .... that is a big problem.

 

I do not expect ANY team to weather all the injuroies we had. I do expect better preparation by our front office to this team at a least a fighting chance.

 

Explain not spending to cap to shore this up just a little bit?

[Homey D. Clown]

We haven't won a game with Roscoe on the field in 2 years. What are you talking about?? Fantasize all you want about Merriman and then go back and watch the games--rarely doubled or drew more attention than his replacement. He lost more than a step.

 

 

 

Ahh I knew the merriman bashers would have to take a jab at that one.... even when asked to keep responses to the question asked and what the thread was intended to discuss, you still can't handle that.... was it really that hard? Did I have to not mention any names in order to keep the thread on task? Did I really need to dumb it down that far to keep the likes of these remarks out? Geez!! There is literally a banquet of other threads for you to bash these players in, I just don't get why you found it necessary to do it here. Good grief!

[Bob in STL]

Nobody held a gun to your head to post in my thread, which I'd like to share and hear the opinions of those who ask this particular question... Why even post a comment then? Just to be rude to others?

 

Two games for sure stand out in my mind that should have gone the other way, well, make that 3, cincinnatti, new jersey giants, and new jersey jests. A healthy Kyle Williams alone may have had an impact on those games. I still think it's early to lay blame on the GM just yet, I am looking forwards to the pivotal 3rd offseason where this team tries to get some real depth at a few positions. As for Lee Evans, I loved the guy, but I think having him here this season wouldn't have had any impact, I don't know what happened to him, but he seems to have really faded. I watched a few youtube highlight clips of the guy, and it's night and day between the 04-06 lee evans, and the 07-10 player. I do wish him well though if he can revive his career, great, I just didn't think his style of play fitted what Chan Gailey wants to do here.

 

 

Good point. My bad.

 

I am irritated at Nix and the entire FO for this glacier-like approach to rebuilding.

 

Yes, We would have won more with less injuries. No doubt.

[Dorkington]

Injuries are going to happen. Our FO needs to plan for that and hire some quality depth. Our coaching staff also needs to not suck.

[Bob in STL]

As for Hangartner, I don't agree. Urbik missed two games early and Rinehart played well and the team didn't miss a beat. Later, with injuries at OT, they moved Levitre to OT and Urbik and Rinehart were fine.

 

The mistake, IMO was when Wood was injured, they moved Levitre to center. Clearly he had a poor game there making the long snaps. Urbik has looked natural there and Levitre and Rinehart are fine at guard. The Bills are down Eric Wood and still can man the interior with Levitre, Urbik and Rinehart. They're solid 4 in the interior without the injury.

 

I doubt there's a team in the league which goes more than 4 deep on the interior. With the possible exception of one game, I don't think the team misses Hangartner.

 

As far as starting the season with a rookie at swing tackle, that is true and it sucks that Bell got injured and that Hairston was injured for several weeks at the same time.

 

It's also true that Hairston has played better than Mansfield Wrotto or Cordaro Howard were playing last season so we're actually improved at that position. By virtue of the simple fact that both Pears and Bell are free agents, the Bills are forced to address this position this next offseason but their tackle play is improved over last year.

 

 

 

It is not so much Hangartner the player that irks me. It is the approach. I know Hangartner is not very good and I am not asking for four deep. Our backup OL had almost no experience across the board. Rhinehart is a decent backup but cannot play center. There was no proven center on the roster aftger Wood (and he is a first year NFL center coming off of a major injury), not one guy that consistently snapped the ball in college or in practice. There was no NFL game experience for the backup OTs. Sounds like a bad recipe to me?

 

Hairston is better than Wrotto and Howard. Good news for us. What would those games have been like if it did not work out that way? Hairston bailed Nix out.

 

So far we squeaked through the year on OL. I suspect the Bills will let Bell walk in the off season. Lets see what moves Buddy will make. I will be watching.

[Dopey]

In preseason our top 4 WRs were Johnson, Evans, Easely and Parrish. We traded Evans away. Parrish gets hurt every year. Easely has basically yet to play for us in 2 or 3 years. Basically this means we traded away our #2(former #1) and history has shown that our #3 and #4 can't stay healthy. You can't expect so many injuries at one particular position unless their is a proven record of those injuries. I think that has been proven.

 

Trading Evans was just dumb. He has been hurt basically all year for Baltimore but he pretty much played every game for Buffalo in his time here. We would still be looking pretty damn good with Johnson and Evans together on the field. Nelson has been a nice surprise in the end zone but other than that we didn't put ourselves in a good position in the off season.

 

Scott Chandler again is another good surprise but he is a TE. I consider that a separate position and I don't lump them in with the WRs for the same reason I don't lump RBs into the WR position just because they catch passes too.

Can't agree with you on the Evans trade. He hasn't done anything for Balt. this season either. I like Lee, but it's kinda sad to see how he's playing now compared to 4-5 yrs ago. He's not playing well at all.

 

We haven't won a game with Roscoe on the field in 2 years. What are you talking about?? Fantasize all you want about Merriman and then go back and watch the games--rarely doubled or drew more attention than his replacement. He lost more than a step.

 

 

 

How can we be "missing" Easley--he's never played a game for the Bills in the regular season in his 2 years in the (IR) NFL. Losing Aaron Williams (rookie backup) has cost us zero wins.

 

 

 

This is not bascially what happened to the Bills. Our top 3 receivers are still playing (Stevie, Nelson, Chandler). Freddie went down after our November slide was underway (so did Wood).

 

Only Stevie is part of the top 3 recievers at the beginning of the season. Pretty sure the top 3 were going to be Stevie,Roscoe, and Easley. We only have 1 of our top 3-4 recievers heading into the beginning of the season playing now.

[Mr. WEO]

Ahh I knew the merriman bashers would have to take a jab at that one.... even when asked to keep responses to the question asked and what the thread was intended to discuss, you still can't handle that.... was it really that hard? Did I have to not mention any names in order to keep the thread on task? Did I really need to dumb it down that far to keep the likes of these remarks out? Geez!! There is literally a banquet of other threads for you to bash these players in, I just don't get why you found it necessary to do it here. Good grief!

You are confused. ou start a thread to say that the absence of certain players prevented us from being, in your opinion, 8-4 at this point. You may be right-we will never know. But you specifically mentioned Merriman and (unbelivably) Parrish. I disagreed with your premise, and in regard to those specific players, made it clear why I disagreed with you. It was not "bashing".

 

If you don't know how to pose a question for answering, then stop posting threads with questions for the group--or have someone else do it for you.

[TC in St. Louis]

It's annoying to go through this year after year. Every time there's a guy down, it's one of our better players. Seeing Eric Wood in a heap was the one that really got me.

 

Anyway, go down the line....Wood, Bell, Freddie, Roscoe, Easley, Kyle Williams, #24, Aaron Williams, George Wilson....not to mention the countless starts missed by starters. This happens every year.

 

I know other teams have injuries, but it seems we have the worst. Our receiving squad is a 7th round pick, a bunch of street guys, and Ruvell, who couldn't catch a beachball handed to him by a Dolphins cheerleader.

 

I've been telling guys at work that our team is "broken" and we just don't have enough left to make the playoffs. We still try, and we'll knock a few people around before all is said and done. I can't wait for a healthy team next year. I say that every year.

 

Oh yeah. Screw Maybin.

[cantankerous]

If "if" was a fifth all of us would be drunk.

[K-9]

Obviosuly without "UNEXPECTED" injuries to players we would be a much better team and the record would reflect that. The obvious "EXPECTED" injuries like Shaw "Good Gamble" Merriman, which was pretty much a 100% guarantee, should have been accounted for with contingency plans. The way Maybin is playing in NY when he was finally given playing time should have been our contingency plan.

 

How do you NOT give a first round draft pick significant playing time in 3 years to see what he has ON THE FIELD! Practice? We're talking about practice? For those that excuse it away by saying he didn't show enough in practice is a joke. Apparently the Jets "saw something in practice"! Wish we had guys watching our practices with those eyes and insight.

 

Yep. The Jets saw so much in practice they cut him before the season started and only brought him back three games into the season because Bryan Thomas got hurt.

 

You don't give a first round draft pick significant playing time in three years when what little playing time he got proved that he was not a very good player.

 

More to your point is that Maybin, given that he is only a situational player, would NOT have been the contingency plan for Merriman because he is a huge liability against the run while Merriman was the best OLB we had in that regard. I agree that there was no other OLB on the roster to take his place and the FO didn't have an answer.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Mr. WEO]

 

 

 

Only Stevie is part of the top 3 recievers at the beginning of the season. Pretty sure the top 3 were going to be Stevie,Roscoe, and Easley. We only have 1 of our top 3-4 recievers heading into the beginning of the season playing now.

Week 1 starters were Johnson, Jones, Nelson and Parrish. Easley was unlikely to be in the top 2. Roscoe played 2 games totalled a single reception before he was inevitably injured again. Yet the passing game did just fine with Johnson, Jones, Nelson and Chandler.

 

Therefore, you can't really say that they were hurt by missing Easley (who was "easley" injured also) and Parrish.

 

It's intereting that in the first half of the season, the combo of Fitz/Stevie/Nelson/Jones/Chandler were the toast of this board--Pro Bowlers and all of that, yet now-that same group (minus Jones, the least talented of them) is called "a 7th rounder and a bunch of street guys".

Edited December 7, 2011 by Mr. WEO

[San Jose Bills Fan]

My responses in red.

Fair enough. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I just don't buy the injury excuse in any way, shape or form. Elite teams get through injuries (see Patriots, New England). We're not elite at this time -- but I hold out hope that we could be after a few more solid drafts (like the last one) and a number of key FA acquisitions.

 

The point actually is that an elite team can withstand injuries better than a young, rebuilding team. To dismiss injuries entirely is ridiculous. Players and coaches downplay them so as to not provide themselves crutches and excuses. We're not players and coaches. We're allowed to consider their effect.

 

I believe quality > quantity. Judging by your post, you go the other way. So I'll play devil's advocate: Three teams that lost one or two key players (not 14) and have crumbled:

 

I mentioned that 14 players are on IR but if you read the post, you see that quantity was my second point (after quality). I first touched on the injuries to Bell, Hairston, Kyle Williams, Merriman, Fred Jackson, Eric Wood).

"Some of those players were insignificant but others were pretty pivotal. For significant periods of time, they have lost their starting left tackle… "

I discuss quantity (in the form of the wide receiver injuries) in the second to last paragraph of my post.

• We needn't look much further than Peyton Manning. Sure, Joseph Addai has been injured much of the season, but he's always been a joke of a RB. I'm sure they've had other (more insignificant) injuries, but I find it hard to believe that the Colts wouldn't be fighting for a playoff spot right now with Peyton at the helm.
• The Bears were doing well until they lost Cutler and Forte. Those two lost players likely will end their playoff run. And of the two, Forte >>>> Cutler. That's TWO guys.
• The WAY-overrated Eagles were in contention until they lost Vick for three games. Vick was struggling a bit before the injury, but he has a rep for coming back strong. The Eagles have only four players on IR. With the exception of McCoy, Vick is the heart of the Eagles. (This was supposed to be the "dream team")

You just mentioned 3 examples… in each one, the team lost their starting quarterback. Those situations are not comparable to the Bills situation. It's irrelevant. How many games would the Bills have won with Tyler Thigpen at quarterback? To compare the effect of injuries on a team, you'd have to pick a team which has lost key players but not their starting quarterback. San Diego comes to mind.

Again -- I don't disagree with some of the players you mentioned. Top three on IR: Kyle Williams, Freddie Jackson, Eric Wood. I'm not crying too much over the rest of them. The Senator has been a blow, but to my knowledge, he's not on IR. Merriman is done -- he WAS done. The OL did just fine without Bell. For the record, I really like Hairston -- that was a bigger blow, IMO. But I'm sticking with my top three as the real significant losses to this team. The rest are/were replaceable. Also, don't forget that Wood and Freddie went down toward the end of our November skid -- AKA we lost WITH them.

 

Yes, I didn't use injury as an excuse to the degree that I could have. Thanks for bringing up George Wilson. Although not on IR, Wilson has missed more games than Eric Wood or Fred Jackson. Rodney Harrison said in about week 5 that George Wilson was a Defensive Player of the Year candidate. Also, you can debate whether Bell or Hairston was the bigger loss but really the point is that for 3 weeks, we had neither of them.

 

Agree that not one of those receivers excites me. Fitz barely had time to familiarize himself with Easley, and Parrish has been a fixture on Left Bench for years. Jones is newish, and Huggins -- meh. Fitz still has weapons in Stevie, Nelson and Chandler (yes, I know Chandler is out this week). I see no valid excuse here.

 

To the discussion of our wide receiver injuries, it's not a matter of them "exciting you." This is a league in which the ball is thrown nearly 60% of the time. More than half the time, an NFL offense is in a 3 or 4 wide receiver formation. When you lose 4 wideouts to injury including 3 who were being counted on to be in the top 5 of your depth chart (this is not including the trading away of Lee Evans), you're in denial about what that does to an offense. You cannot plug new guys in who have very little chemistry/familiarity with the QB and expect that to not affect the passing offense… not in a league where a miscommunication can often end up as an interception. So yes, we disagree quite a bit on this one.

 

We're starting our 3rd string quarterback as a wide receiver… The WR corps has been gutted. This has hurt the offense.

Finally to those who point out that we lost two games without Fred Jackson and Eric Wood, correct me if I'm wrong but weren't both of those games very close and winnable? Didn't each of those games come down to the last drive?

 

It could just as easily be argued that the Bills would have won the last two had Jackson and Wood participated fully in both of them. The "we lost them after we started the November slide" is completely disingenuous.

 

The best point I've seen made in this thread is from Bob in St Louis (I think), who basically makes the point that the thinness of our roster, due to the cheapness of ownership has made these injuries more damaging than they could have been.

 

To say that injuries have not hurt this team?

 

Wow.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan

[The AntiFin]

The point actually is that an elite team can withstand injuries better than a young, rebuilding team. To dismiss injuries entirely is ridiculous.

Why the need to make stuff up? Who dismissed all of the injuries "entirely?" You might want to correct that to "YOUR POINT." I don't agree with "your point." You're just making excuses, and that's embarrassing. Man up and admit we're a mediocre team at best right now. The injuries haven't helped, but I still stand by my original statement that our record would be just about the same now as before the key injuries. We played out of our minds the first six games. And well beyond our capabilities. We caught a glimpse of what this team is capable of and after a solid draft or two -- and a few key FAs (I only wrote this in my last response), we'll be contenders.

 

We're allowed to consider their effect.

You're allowed to consider whatever the heck you want. As am I. I listed my "big three" on IR. The rest are not in their league. Sorry.

 

I mentioned that 14 players are on IR but if you read the post, you see that quantity was my second point (after quality). I first touched on the injuries to Bell, Hairston, Kyle Williams, Merriman, Fred Jackson, Eric Wood). "Some of those players were insignificant but others were pretty pivotal. For significant periods of time, they have lost their starting left tackle… "

Did you even read what I wrote? I replied with my thoughts on all of those players. The ones *I* believe were big losses, and the ones *I* believed were not. Are you so narcissistic that you believe you're the only one entitled to an opinion?

 

I discuss quantity (in the form of the wide receiver injuries) in the second to last paragraph of my post.

And I discussed my disgust in the wide receivers on IR. No big loss. But I'm sure you'll disagree -- after all, Easley was an all-pro and Parrish was a studly, sturdy QB who hasn't been injured the better part of three seasons.

 

You just mentioned 3 examples… in each one, the team lost their starting quarterback. Those situations are not comparable to the Bills situation. It's irrelevant. To compare the effect of injuries on a team, you'd have to pick a team which has lost key players but not their starting quarterback. San Diego comes to mind.

LMAO. This is too funny. It's "irrelevant" to YOU. Not to me. Do you own this board? Just curious. Do an archive search. I went on record time after time after the first of six consecutive losses by Rivers and his beloved Chargers, saying that Rivers is a putz, and his best days are behind him. He lost key players? Really? VJax, Matthews, Tolbert, Gates are all scrubs, right? How about a team that lost its starting QB and has done well? Miami... Denver, anyone?

 

Yes, I didn't use injury as an excuse to the degree that I could have. Thanks for bringing up George Wilson. Although not on IR, Wilson has missed more games than Eric Wood or Fred Jackson. Rodney Harrison said in about week 5 that George Wilson was a Defensive Player of the Year candidate. Also, you can debate whether Bell or Hairston was the bigger loss but really the point is that for 3 weeks, we had neither of them.

I was waiting for a paragraph that wasn't an attack. Welcome back. Our OL has played out of its mind compared to the way anyone dreamed it would when the season started. What comes up comes down. They had a great run. They're YOUNG. They'll be back. Why are people so impatient? We're getting most of these guys back next year, you know.

 

To the discussion of our wide receiver injuries, it's not a matter of them "exciting you." This is a league in which the ball is thrown nearly 60% of the time. More than half the time, an NFL offense is in a 3 or 4 wide receiver formation. When you lose 4 wideouts to injury including 3 who were being counted on to be in the top 5 of your depth chart (this is not including the trading away of Lee Evans), you're in denial about what that does to an offense.

Disagree. You -- GASP -- sign players to take their place. You don't keep Ruvell Martins on your team. (And please, no B.S. about his special teams play... we can't afford a "luxury spot" on our roster).

 

You cannot plug new guys in who have very little chemistry/familiarity with the QB and expect that to not affect the passing offense… not in a league where a miscommunication can often end up as an interception. So yes, we disagree quite a bit on this one. We're starting our 3rd string quarterback as a wide receiver… The WR corps has been gutted. This has hurt the offense.

Stevie isn't new. Nelson isn't new. Martin (LOL) isn't new. Chandler isn't new. Are you saying Fitz has experience with Easley and Parrish? What has Huggins accomplished with Fitz? The only loss of consequence to our WR corps was Jones. Spiller has lined up as a WR before (yeah, he's our running back, I know. But some RBs catch, too!) Brad Smith has 149 yards and a TD in his past two games. How is that horrific? The guy's getting paid like $3 mil a year. Glad to see he's finally being put to good use.

 

Finally to those who point out that we lost two games without Fred Jackson and Eric Wood, correct me if I'm wrong but weren't both of those games very close and winnable? Didn't each of those games come down to the last drive?

Same with the Jets game -- without those two. We could, quite literally, do this all day.

 

It could just as easily be argued that the Bills would have won the last two had Jackson and Wood participated fully in both of them. To say that injuries have not hurt this team? Wow.

To your first point: Argued, but not proven. Sorry. To your second: Nice try on misquoting. Reread my post. Most of the guys on IR are not studs. I pointed out the three I thought were. You conveniently overlooked that.

 

My point is simple, actually: Some people here need to QUIT WHINING and blaming our soon-to-be losing record on injuries, refs, etc. This team is exactly where it should be right now -- a little better than last year, but nowhere near a playoff contender. To think otherwise would be "ridiculous," to quote -- you.

Edited December 7, 2011 by The AntiFin

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Why the need to make stuff up? Who dismissed all of the injuries "entirely?" You might want to correct that to "YOUR POINT." I don't agree with "your point." You're just making excuses, and that's embarrassing. Man up and admit we're a mediocre team at best right now. The injuries haven't helped, but I still stand by my original statement that our record would be just about the same now as before the key injuries. We played out of our minds the first six games. And well beyond our capabilities. We caught a glimpse of what this team is capable of and after a solid draft or two -- and a few key FAs (I only wrote this in my last response), we'll be contenders.

 

 

You're allowed to consider whatever the heck you want. As am I. I listed my "big three" on IR. The rest are not in their league. Sorry.

 

 

Did you even read what I wrote? I replied with my thoughts on all of those players. The ones *I* believe were big losses, and the ones *I* believed were not. Are you so narcissistic that you believe you're the only one entitled to an opinion?

 

 

And I discussed my disgust in the wide receivers on IR. No big loss. But I'm sure you'll disagree -- after all, Easley was an all-pro and Parrish was a studly, sturdy QB who hasn't been injured the better part of three seasons.

 

 

LMAO. This is too funny. It's "irrelevant" to YOU. Not to me. Do you own this board? Just curious. Do an archive search. I went on record time after time after the first of six consecutive losses by Rivers and his beloved Chargers, saying that Rivers is a putz, and his best days are behind him. He lost key players? Really? VJax, Matthews, Tolbert, Gates are all scrubs, right? How about a team that lost its starting QB and has done well? Miami... Denver, anyone?

 

 

I was waiting for a paragraph that wasn't an attack. Welcome back. Our OL has played out of its mind compared to the way anyone dreamed it would when the season started. What comes up comes down. They had a great run. They're YOUNG. They'll be back. Why are people so impatient? We're getting most of these guys back next year, you know.

 

 

Disagree. You -- GASP -- sign players to take their place. You don't keep Ruvell Martins on your team. (And please, no B.S. about his special teams play... we can't afford a "luxury spot" on our roster).

 

 

Stevie isn't new. Nelson isn't new. Martin (LOL) isn't new. Chandler isn't new. Are you saying Fitz has experience with Easley and Parrish? What has Huggins accomplished with Fitz? The only loss of consequence to our WR corps was Jones. Spiller has lined up as a WR before (yeah, he's our running back, I know. But some RBs catch, too!) Brad Smith has 149 yards and a TD in his past two games. How is that horrific? The guy's getting paid like $3 mil a year. Glad to see he's finally being put to good use.

 

 

Same with the Jets game -- without those two. We could, quite literally, do this all day.

 

 

To your first point: Argued, but not proven. Sorry. To your second: Nice try on misquoting. Reread my post. Most of the guys on IR are not studs. I pointed out the three I thought were. You conveniently overlooked that.

 

My point is simple, actually: Some people here need to QUIT WHINING and blaming our soon-to-be losing record on injuries, refs, etc. This team is exactly where it should be right now -- a little better than last year, but nowhere near a playoff contender. To think otherwise would be "ridiculous," to quote -- you.

Dude, you need to calm down. I never "attacked" you.

 

Here's my view in a nutshell, and I don't suspect it's much different than yours.

 

1) The Bills are a young, rebuilding team.

2) As such I believe the injuries have reduced the number of wins they would have had this year (I believe you disagree with this).

3) I like this team and the direction it's going in and have no problem waiting another year. I'm not the least bit impatient.

 

I believe the injuries have reduced the number of wins.

 

You believe that our record would be the same.

 

Did I miss something?

 

 

[Chicago_Mike]

To deny that injuries haven't affected the season is absurd. Easley was a tremendous loss, as well as Jones, Parrish, and obviously, Jackson and Wood. To lose Merriman, Williams and McGee -- three anchors on D -- probably translates to losing 3-4 big defensive plays a game, which could be anything from a TFL, a timely sack, QB pressure for an incomplete pass, etc. These injuries alone would derail most good teams. I'm not saying our D was anything spectacular, but, they were a middle of the pack defense -- some good games, some bad games -- but a potent enough offense to keep them in contention. But, all of the injuries combined is just too much for any border-line playoff team. Injuries like this make coaches change game plans. The same outcome the Bills are facing would happen to the Jets, Bengals, Denver, Giants, etc.

 

If the Bills do manage to go 8-8 this year or is even competitive in these last few games, I'm, for one, going to be excited about 2012. This year, no matter what, was a step in the right direction.

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

Great, anaother thread on hypotheticals that can never be proven.

 

One clear fact is that Buddy Nix went into this season with no experienced, veteran depth.

 

Curious decisions were made to not bring in more OLB help, to cut Jeff Hangartner, to trade Lee Evans. and to start the season with a rookie (Hairston) as the swing OT.

 

Those decisions are on Buddy Nix.

 

We are $20M under the salary cap - that decision is on Ralph, Overdorf, and Littman.

 

Injuries are part of the game. Yes, we would be a better team if all of our starters were still in the he line up. Sorry, not gonna play "what if".

Not sure if I put cutting Hangartner and Evans on Nix. Those may have been money decisions.

 

Agree with everything else 100%.

 

BTW, add chandler and Byrd to the list of quality players out of the lineup . . . we are so screwed against SD . . .

[The AntiFin]

Here's my view in a nutshell, and I don't suspect it's much different than yours.

 

1) The Bills are a young, rebuilding team.

Absolutely.

 

2) As such I believe the injuries have reduced the number of wins they would have had this year (I believe you disagree with this).

6-6, perhaps -- One of the three winnable games (from our losing streak) would have been won, IMO. I really believe they peaked way too early.

 

3) I like this team and the direction it's going in and have no problem waiting another year. I'm not the least bit impatient.

Agree on this as well. I was around in the '80s... '90s... and all the heartache since the early '90s. I like Buddy and Chan and think they deserve two more years to build this team into a strong contender.

 

I believe the injuries have reduced the number of wins.

Fair enough. I believe that our inexplicable come-from-behind wins (early on) were bound to come to an end. I was loving the wins, but wasn't getting too excited. We simply can't do that every week. No game hurt more than the Miami game. But when we went down that quickly, I thought back to Oakland and New England and said, "They have a shot." Errr... wrong.

 

You believe that our record would be the same.

Essentially, yes. But again, that's assuming all the teams we played were at full strength, too -- per my first post.

 

Did I miss something?

Nope. Right on the money on this post. We saw some great flashes of what we can accomplish with the comebacks, irrespective of my feelings about them (progress). Our record is better than last year's (progress). We beat the Pats for the first time in 16 games (progress). First win in TO (progress). First shutout win in five years (progress). Handed Shanny his first shutout in 24 years (BONUS). Amid the heartache, we've had some unexpected, pleasant surprises this year, and despite our final record, I believe this is a far better team than last year's.

 

One final thought... And I'm probably going to get jumped on for this. ::shrug:: I don't always look at everything in black and white. For those who want to win *now* -- well, this will be hollow. For those who are patient, and see where we *might* be headed next year and beyond, here goes: Injuries have thrown many of our rookies into the fire, and they won't be "second year rookies" next year. They'll have invaluable NFL experience, and I expect a number of them to usurp some of our vets for starting jobs. I really believe this was our best draft in -- more years than I can count. I believe the Bills will be that much stronger due to the experience these rooks are getting:

 

• Dareus: Will be a stud. Showing flashes, but also learning. Versatile
  
• Williams: Missed time with an injury, but is back and holding his own. Could be our top CB next year. I can see him starting.
  
• Sheppard: Better against the run than the pass, but he starts next year from Game One.
  
• Searcy: My second favorite draft choice of 2011. Hard hitter; Mean streak. Has self control. Will be a playmaker -- and starter next year.
  
• Hairston: Bell's successor in 2012, IMO
  
• Jury's still out on the rest.
  

 

Nice post.

[Mr. WEO]

My responses in red.

 

Finally to those who point out that we lost two games without Fred Jackson and Eric Wood, correct me if I'm wrong but weren't both of those games very close and winnable? Didn't each of those games come down to the last drive?

 

It could just as easily be argued that the Bills would have won the last two had Jackson and Wood participated fully in both of them. The "we lost them after we started the November slide" is completely disingenuous.

 

The best point I've seen made in this thread is from Bob in St Louis (I think), who basically makes the point that the thinness of our roster, due to the cheapness of ownership has made these injuries more damaging than they could have been.

 

To say that injuries have not hurt this team?

 

Wow.

Actually, I think the point being made is that we began losing games with those 2 n the lineup. Wood for 2 of them and FJ for 3.

 

To deny that injuries haven't affected the season is absurd. Easley was a tremendous loss, as well as Jones, Parrish, and obviously, Jackson and Wood. To lose Merriman, Williams and McGee -- three anchors on D -- probably translates to losing 3-4 big defensive plays a game, which could be anything from a TFL, a timely sack, QB pressure for an incomplete pass, etc. These injuries alone would derail most good teams. I'm not saying our D was anything spectacular, but, they were a middle of the pack defense -- some good games, some bad games -- but a potent enough offense to keep them in contention. But, all of the injuries combined is just too much for any border-line playoff team. Injuries like this make coaches change game plans. The same outcome the Bills are facing would happen to the Jets, Bengals, Denver, Giants, etc.

 

If the Bills do manage to go 8-8 this year or is even competitive in these last few games, I'm, for one, going to be excited about 2012. This year, no matter what, was a step in the right direction.

Can "losing" a player who never contributed in a meaningful way be considered a "tremendous loss"? Or a guy who hasn't been much involved in a win in nearly 2 seasons (Parrish)?

Edited December 8, 2011 by Mr. WEO

[San Jose Bills Fan]

One final thought... And I'm probably going to get jumped on for this. ::shrug:: I don't always look at everything in black and white. For those who want to win *now* -- well, this will be hollow. For those who are patient, and see where we *might* be headed next year and beyond, here goes: Injuries have thrown many of our rookies into the fire, and they won't be "second year rookies" next year. They'll have invaluable NFL experience, and I expect a number of them to usurp some of our vets for starting jobs. I really believe this was our best draft in -- more years than I can count. I believe the Bills will be that much stronger due to the experience these rooks are getting:

 

• Dareus: Will be a stud. Showing flashes, but also learning. Versatile
• Williams: Missed time with an injury, but is back and holding his own. Could be our top CB next year. I can see him starting.
• Sheppard: Better against the run than the pass, but he starts next year from Game One.
• Searcy: My second favorite draft choice of 2011. Hard hitter; Mean streak. Has self control. Will be a playmaker -- and starter next year.
• Hairston: Bell's successor in 2012, IMO
• Jury's still out on the rest.

No doubt in my mind that the injuries that have thrust the rookies into extensive PT is one of the silver linings of this season.

 

I think this was a great draft as well… and it had to be because I also believe that the 2010 draft is looking pretty bad. To me, at this point, any improvement we get out of the 2010 draft will amount to damage control.

 

Ironically of last year's class, I am most optimistic about CJ Spiller. I think something has clicked within him and he's finding himself and feeling more comfortable. If he can be 90% of the player he was projected to be, then the 2010 class will be somewhat redeemed.

 

But I think the 2011 draft is looking great. One guy we didn't mention that I LOVE is Chris White. I really hated to see him go on IR… I think he's a very similar player to Colin McCarthy who was just named AFC Defensive Player of the Week for the Titans for his play against the Bills I hope White's not misused by the Bills like Mario Haggan was. Chris White is more than a special teams player, IMO.

 

Another 2011 draftee we didn't mention was Justin Thomas who I thought looked excellent the last two weeks… especially for a 7th round rookie. He hopped ahead of Reggie Corner in no time and might just get the start this week ahead of McKelvin.

 

The only 2011 draftee I have not been impressed with is Johnny White, the UNC RB. He hasn't looked great and fundamentally, I felt Spiller was our speed back and our third back should be a big banger. But that's just me. It's a moot point anyways as Chan seems to have gone pass happy on us.