Kelly the Dog Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Do you seriously think that when Wilson passes on, the new ownership will think "we can't move the team now, they just made improvements to the stadium?" The other way to look at it is that if (and when) NYS ends up putting $80-100 million into it, they will have serious assurances the team is not going anywhere. That's part of all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I wish the Bills or Erie County would find more uses for the stadium. All that money to use it 8-10 days per year seems like such a waste. A number of other teams have major college programs nearby that use their stadiums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAWNDO Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I wish the Bills or Erie County would find more uses for the stadium. All that money to use it 8-10 days per year seems like such a waste. A number of other teams have major college programs nearby that use their stadiums. It would be nice, but to have more uses for the stadium it would have to be enclosed. Also UB is a long way from a major college program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Kansas City just completed a 350 million overhaul of Arrowhead, which I consider the closest stadium to RWS in the league. The upgrade was funded by taxes, so I would expect that the same will be applicable in this case. Recent talk has any upgrade for RWS in the 75-100 million range. I would like to see a poll as to how many would be for or against a tax of this sort. With names of those who are against it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Of course, the grassy knoll theory in all of this is that they want to bring in this committee or company or whatever it is, and have them toss out a really high estimate of the amount of money it would take. Then they could say, "gee, if it's gonna be that much, we might as well build a new stadium" and start down that road. Taxpayers, keep your hand on your wallet if that should happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Collins just said they ran a study and the Bills generate $20 mil a year in direct revenues for the state. $100 million in upgrades for a 10 year lease is a bargain. When people start complaining about this, it honestly makes me wonder why Wilson keeps the team here after all. $100 mil? There's a group on the west coast that would throw a $1 billion dollar stadium at the team. Confirming what Collins said: http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article601613.ece Collins again emphasized the state's sizable commitment would be worthwhile. He said research done by his office indicates the Bills provide the state with $20 million in direct revenues each year, mainly from taxes on payroll and ticket sales. The Bills' current lease was signed in 1997 and included $63.2 million in state-funded capital improvements, about $3 million a year from a "working capital grant" and other state money. For comparison, here's what a study found the last time around, in 1997, before the current lease was signed: http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/1997/06/09/story4.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Confirming what Collins said: http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article601613.ece For comparison, here's what a study found the last time around, in 1997, before the current lease was signed: http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/1997/06/09/story4.html :wallbash: :wallbash: and jw Edited October 21, 2011 by john wawrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 :wallbash: :wallbash: and jw Why do you have a problem with a link to the article about the 1997 study? It's obviously out-of-date, and not directly applicable to today's calculation of costs and benefits. But unlike Collins' comments, it gives some insight into how the older study arrived at its conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Not you. Still wouldn't be you. You're wrong again. The county wants the state to cover 2/3 to 3/4 of the renovation. So that means Bills fans (and nonfans) who actually live in the state will contribute. Here is my brief analysis of the Bills stadium improvements situation. Buffalo Bills Payroll $100,000,000 NYS Income Tax 5% Annual total. $5,000,000 73,000 seats x 10 games x $60ave ticket price = $43,800,000 NYS Sales Tax 8.75% Annual total $3,832,500 Total annual tax revenues $8,832,500 15 years X $8,832,500 Total of tax revenues over 15 years $132,487,500 NYS issues a 15 year bond for improvements in exchange for a 15 year unbreakable lease with the elimination of the Toronto game. Tax revenues more than pay for the cost of improvements plus interest. Without the improvements the team is gone and so are the tax revenues. This is a revenue neutral deal that could keep the team here after Ralph's passing I also feel my figures are very conservative. That's a very intersting analysis, but the that's not how it works. If it was, I would be asking the state to fund improvements in my house based on all of the revenue they have been taking from me over the past 25 years--and how much they will be taking from me the next 15 or so. If the Bills have brought in 100 million or so in tax revenue the PAST 15 years, by your logic that money should be available for upgrades right now. Of course it's already long spent on other things the state spends money on. The $134,000,000 you estimate over the next 15 years is not "extra" revenue--it is what the state has already budgeted for and expects to receive form the Bills. If they essentially gave that money back to the Bills for stadium improvements that don't bring more tax revenue than they do now, they would view this as a 134 million shortfall over 15 years. Edited October 21, 2011 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I wish the Bills or Erie County would find more uses for the stadium. All that money to use it 8-10 days per year seems like such a waste. A number of other teams have major college programs nearby that use their stadiums. It is a criminal waste of money given the current state of the economy. It is shameful and disgusting that taxpayers continue to foot the Bill for these millionaires and billionaires (NFL). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 You're wrong again. The county wants the state to cover 2/3 to 3/4 of the renovation. So that means Bills fans (and nonfans) who actually live in the state will contribute. If true, this is actually better than just sticking Erie County with the bill. And it's no different than non-Yankees and Mets fans having to contribute to the building of those stadiums, and this bill won't even approach those two. Although it does mean you now have to pay something to watch games that were otherwise free on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 If true, this is actually better than just sticking Erie County with the bill. And it's no different than non-Yankees and Mets fans having to contribute to the building of those stadiums, and this bill won't even approach those two. Although it does mean you now have to pay something to watch games that were otherwise free on TV. Yes, as I said. "Not you" refers to you-perhaps that's what you meant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 It is a criminal waste of money given the current state of the economy. It is shameful and disgusting that taxpayers continue to foot the Bill for these millionaires and billionaires (NFL). Granted, but let's not overlook that these are important venues for things other than football. Stadiums have served as major staging areas in times of natural disaster --- The Superdome during Katrina, a UConn football game was re-scheduled when the state used Rentschler Field during major Hurricane Irene flooding a couple of months ago, only as two examples off the top of my head. God forbid, in the case of nuclear or widespread biological attack, the state/fed government would be using this high-capacity space as treatment centers, etc. It may never have to be used for something like this stuff, but it's a great help to have a facility like that in place if needed. That's why governments generally kick into funding. I suppose they could use eminent domain in times of emergency but an understood "the govt helped pay for this" is a friendlier persuasion. Now, I'm not saying that govt should foot the whole or even most of the bill. But the point here is that stadiums do serve functions other than football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 They really need to follow, Green Bay's lead on remodeling the Stadium. They made it a year round venue. They have restaurants a HOF and conference rooms that local business can reserve YEAR ROUND! This allows the team and the State to generate revenue year round. I think local Businesses would line up to "off sights" and the Raloh, You get on field tour, catering, and conference rooms. Its a no brainer. It doesn't appear people read to the end of the article (shocker ) Our own Scott Radecic is the head architect on the project. There may be a heavy emphasis on Special Teams in the redesign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 They really need to follow, Green Bay's lead on remodeling the Stadium. They made it a year round venue. They have restaurants a HOF and conference rooms that local business can reserve YEAR ROUND! This allows the team and the State to generate revenue year round. I think local Businesses would line up to "off sights" and the Raloh, You get on field tour, catering, and conference rooms. Its a no brainer. It doesn't appear people read to the end of the article (shocker ) Our own Scott Radecic is the head architect on the project. There may be a heavy emphasis on Special Teams in the redesign. Just think, Weddings and receptions at "The Ralph". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 If anybody wants to read a thought-provoking article about the impact of public stadium spending on local economies, try this: http://www.brookings.edu/articles/1997/summer_taxes_noll.aspx Although the article is almost 15 years old, I think it makes some interesting points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 You're wrong again. The county wants the state to cover 2/3 to 3/4 of the renovation. So that means Bills fans (and nonfans) who actually live in the state will contribute. That's a very intersting analysis, but the that's not how it works. If it was, I would be asking the state to fund improvements in my house based on all of the revenue they have been taking from me over the past 25 years--and how much they will be taking from me the next 15 or so. If the Bills have brought in 100 million or so in tax revenue the PAST 15 years, by your logic that money should be available for upgrades right now. Of course it's already long spent on other things the state spends money on. The $134,000,000 you estimate over the next 15 years is not "extra" revenue--it is what the state has already budgeted for and expects to receive form the Bills. If they essentially gave that money back to the Bills for stadium improvements that don't bring more tax revenue than they do now, they would view this as a 134 million shortfall over 15 years. True, its not extra money, but it is money that wouldn't be there if the Bills left town. If they want to keep that revenue stream open and continue to receive that, they need to be willing to invest it in upgrades to keep the stadium close to being up-to-date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Granted, but let's not overlook that these are important venues for things other than football. * * * * * * * * * Now, I'm not saying that govt should foot the whole or even most of the bill. But the point here is that stadiums do serve functions other than football. Sadly, even the Taliban found them useful: http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/09/13/us-afghan-stadium-idUSSP12564220080913 But try as they might, few Afghans can put behind them the brutality of the Taliban years when men, and sometimes cowering women in their pale blue, all-enveloping burqas, were brought into the stadium to be either stoned or shot dead at close range. Others had limbs amputated for crimes ranging from robbery to adultery and murder. The stands would be full of people, including children, either coming of their own volition or brought in to witness how the Taliban enforced its version of justice. http://www.rawa.org/murder-w.htm Edited October 21, 2011 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I think local Businesses would line up to "off sights" and the Raloh, You get on field tour, catering, and conference rooms. Its a no brainer. Just think, Weddings and receptions at "The Ralph". You can.... http://www.eventective.com/USA/New+York/Orchard+Park/26918/Ralph-Wilson-Stadium-Home-of-the-Buffalo-Bills.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 If the state of NY signs on to this deal, you know that the ownership issue post Ralph Wilson is not an area of concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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