Cotton Fitzsimmons Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 These still frames of Stevie's catch were brought to YE OLE's attention... what do you guys think? http://www.thebillsblog.com/2011/10/stevie-johnson-catch-vs-bengals.html Just as a side note... it should have never come down to this one call. The Bills lost this game on several other levels. It's simply a closer look at this call, that was indeed pivotal in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Hard to over turn without seeing the ball. I'd have said catch but it's a tough job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuncha Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Hard to over turn without seeing the ball. I'd have said catch but it's a tough job. Ball is in his arm, his knee is down while the bengal is on his back. It's a catch. F'n refs all need glasses and a IQ higher than 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) These still frames of Stevie's catch were brought to YE OLE's attention... what do you guys think? http://www.thebillsblog.com/2011/10/stevie-johnson-catch-vs-bengals.html Just as a side note... it should have never come down to this one call. The Bills lost this game on several other levels. It's simply a closer look at this call, that was indeed pivotal in the game. Touched by Bengal, Knee down, ball secure. Body down ball secure. Ground CANNOT cause a fumble. Play over. Control rule does not apply. The first ref called it right and should not have yielded to the ref 20 yards behind the play. No sign in any frames of a loose ball. The call on the field should have been over turned. The catch and control rule is useful for sideline passes. The over officious ref blew it and was unfortunately supported by his cronies. Disclaimer: I think that the Bills lost for many reason and not just one play. Edited October 4, 2011 by Bob in STL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) Hard to over turn without seeing the ball. I'd have said catch but it's a tough job. the point is it was called a catch and this guy came in from 25 yards away to over rule it...It has to be very obvious for you to do that, or you just can't make that call. They did too much wrong to get away with the win -but that call still makes me sick to my stomach Edited October 4, 2011 by CardinalScotts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 When I saw the first replay that CBS showed, I thought it might have been a drop...but when they showed it from other angles, I am convinced, like me, whichever ref made the call, mistook Nate Clements pink gloved hand for part of the ball...Clements was reaching around Johnson, trying to strip the ball (or at least make him drop it) and it looks like NC's hand kind of blended in with the end of the ball for a split second...I still don't see how they got this call wrong, after reviewing it. And, we all hate excuses, but I think those who are going overboard to say that this play didn't cause the Bills to lose, are forgetting all the little things that are the differences between winning and losing close games like this...I didn't like Gailey's play calling on the Bills last possession (one of the few times I can say that) but I can't help but think Gailey would have drained that clock down, with a first down. True, any time on the clock for the Bengals offense might have been too much, for the Bills defense, but the Bills chances of coming away with an ugly win would have gone up significantly, IMO, had the refs made the right call. Just as some of the calls that went our way, for a change, last week against the Pats helped the Bills win. The difference between winning and losing is pretty slim in most games. A first down, at that point in a game, with the score the what it was, is huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Hard to over turn without seeing the ball. I'd have said catch but it's a tough job. It's hard to ref in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas56 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 The Bills got jobbed. What can we do? This stuff happens. I guess we take solace in the fact that it shouldn't have come down to one play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 When I saw the first replay that CBS showed, I thought it might have been a drop...but when they showed it from other angles, I am convinced, like me, whichever ref made the call, mistook Nate Clements pink gloved hand for part of the ball...Clements was reaching around Johnson, trying to strip the ball (or at least make him drop it) and it looks like NC's hand kind of blended in with the end of the ball for a split second...I still don't see how they got this call wrong, after reviewing it. And, we all hate excuses, but I think those who are going overboard to say that this play didn't cause the Bills to lose, are forgetting all the little things that are the differences between winning and losing close games like this...I didn't like Gailey's play calling on the Bills last possession (one of the few times I can say that) but I can't help but think Gailey would have drained that clock down, with a first down. True, any time on the clock for the Bengals offense might have been too much, for the Bills defense, but the Bills chances of coming away with an ugly win would have gone up significantly, IMO, had the refs made the right call. Just as some of the calls that went our way, for a change, last week against the Pats helped the Bills win. The difference between winning and losing is pretty slim in most games. A first down, at that point in a game, with the score the what it was, is huge. Very well said. I like what Chan said. He was shocked by the call but he thought our guys should have handled it better because they handled tougher situations than that one. So for week 4 we looked like last years Bills. If we come back strong and beat Philly it will say a lot about the direction this team is heading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Very well said. I like what Chan said. He was shocked by the call but he thought our guys should have handled it better because they handled tougher situations than that one. So for week 4 we looked like last years Bills. If we come back strong and beat Philly it will say a lot about the direction this team is heading. Obviously, I want the Bills to beat the Eagles, but I think this game will also reveal a lot about how legit the Bills defensive coaching is. Our defense should be better than it has shown...IMO. I would like to see something new from them, some scheme, or wrinkle, designed specifically to contain Vick...he could kill us...I give Gailey almost as much credit for the Bills offensive turnaround as I do the players...I would like to see something comparable from the defensive coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotton Fitzsimmons Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 the point is it was called a catch and this guy came in from 25 yards away to over rule it...It has to be very obvious for you to do that, or you just can't make that call. They did too much wrong to get away with the win -but that call still makes me sick to my stomach This is what sticks in my craw about this whole deal. The ref that was on top of the play called it a good catch, and the rest of the crew seemed on board with that. It wasn't until the back judge way down field comes running in and says NO CATCH. Now what did he see? These images don't show the ball coming loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 This is what sticks in my craw about this whole deal. The ref that was on top of the play called it a good catch, and the rest of the crew seemed on board with that. It wasn't until the back judge way down field comes running in and says NO CATCH. Now what did he see? These images don't show the ball coming loose. It's almost like the ref went under the hood with the mindset that "I'm going to back up my guy no matter what." It happens a lot where a baffling call gets reviewed and the ref inexplicably says "Ruling on the field stands" with no further explanation. I think the refs should be required to announce the full explanation to the crowd after they make the call. They have to take no ownership. If they get criticized, the critic gets fined. They could do as horrible a job as they want with no repercussions. It is the same in all sports too. Just a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 It's almost like the ref went under the hood with the mindset that "I'm going to back up my guy no matter what." It happens a lot where a baffling call gets reviewed and the ref inexplicably says "Ruling on the field stands" with no further explanation. I think the refs should be required to announce the full explanation to the crowd after they make the call. They have to take no ownership. If they get criticized, the critic gets fined. They could do as horrible a job as they want with no repercussions. It is the same in all sports too. Just a joke. Once the original call was made, at least based on the replays CBS showed, there was not evidence to overturn it - no matter what it had been. There just wasn't an angle where you could see the ball. But the ruling on the field was puzzling at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Touched by Bengal, Knee down, ball secure. Body down ball secure. Ground CANNOT cause a fumble. Play over. Control rule does not apply. The first ref called it right and should not have yielded to the ref 20 yards behind the play. No sign in any frames of a loose ball. The call on the field should have been over turned. The catch and control rule is useful for sideline passes. The over officious ref blew it and was unfortunately supported by his cronies. Disclaimer: I think that the Bills lost for many reason and not just one play. Well bob, as no one called a fumble, I'd say you have little room to criticize the call. Not that it's a real rule as much as shorthand for fans to begin with. Back judge seemed to think he saw something, and influenced the call on the field. It doesn't look like he made the right call, but it's not an obvious one to overturn. Im not a fan of the call but I'm not buying the conspiracy theories. Once the original call was made, at least based on the replays CBS showed, there was not evidence to overturn it - no matter what it had been. There just wasn't an angle where you could see the ball. But the ruling on the field was puzzling at best. I didn't watch live but this is what I've gathered from all replays and commentary It's almost like the ref went under the hood with the mindset that "I'm going to back up my guy no matter what." It happens a lot where a baffling call gets reviewed and the ref inexplicably says "Ruling on the field stands" with no further explanation. I think the refs should be required to announce the full explanation to the crowd after they make the call. They have to take no ownership. If they get criticized, the critic gets fined. They could do as horrible a job as they want with no repercussions. It is the same in all sports too. Just a joke. Would you feel that much better if he came out and said "call stands, video is inconclusive" I agree they should explain all replays, and any calls post huddle/conference - if it wasn't clear to the pros, it should be clarified for the fans- but I don't think it'll fix this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotton Fitzsimmons Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 Would you feel that much better if he came out and said "call stands, video is inconclusive" I agree they should explain all replays, and any calls post huddle/conference - if it wasn't clear to the pros, it should be clarified for the fans- but I don't think it'll fix this one. I think you hit the nail on the head here. By all accounts it appeared to be a good catch. It was initially ruled a catch until the back judge runs in and then there appears to be a mini conference of sorts. It would've been appropriate at that juncture for the Referee to explain what was discussed (ie "process of the catch" BS or whatever the explanation was going to be). It just wasn't clear why the back judge farthest from the play seemingly ruled it differently than the officials closer to said play. Then, even if the review wasn't conclusive, some explanation should have been given, just given the nature of the play. I've rarely, if ever, seen a crew so tight lipped about what was such a critical call in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 These still frames of Stevie's catch were brought to YE OLE's attention... what do you guys think? http://www.thebillsblog.com/2011/10/stevie-johnson-catch-vs-bengals.html Just as a side note... it should have never come down to this one call. The Bills lost this game on several other levels. It's simply a closer look at this call, that was indeed pivotal in the game. I hate this phrase. Many games are turned on one or two plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Guy on the Bench Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Once the original call was made, at least based on the replays CBS showed, there was not evidence to overturn it - no matter what it had been. There just wasn't an angle where you could see the ball. But the ruling on the field was puzzling at best. That's right. I think the original call was most likely wrong. But the replay ruling was right. There is a short period of time where the ball is screened from all available camera angles. It is possible the ball wasn't secure at that time. I doubt it, but if there is a blank spot in the review feeds, the reviewing ref has to uphold the on-field call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Very well said. I like what Chan said. He was shocked by the call but he thought our guys should have handled it better because they handled tougher situations than that one. So for week 4 we looked like last years Bills. If we come back strong and beat Philly it will say a lot about the direction this team is heading. I agree Bob in Stl. Usually do. But I would like to add to your comment. I have heard alot on here that they played bad and you can't blame it on one play. While true they did not play up to their potential, in games that are close like this are usually turned by one play or one good or stalled drive. I believe this could have been the one play. Just as the spotting of the ball of the Bangles drive was that one decision they needed to keep the drive moving. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) the point is it was called a catch and this guy came in from 25 yards away to over rule it...It has to be very obvious for you to do that, or you just can't make that call. They did too much wrong to get away with the win -but that call still makes me sick to my stomach Indeed, that is the point. In the words of Marv Levy, an "over-officious jerk" of a call---dude, unless its very obvious, how can you overrule a call from several yards away? Anyhow, its not why we lost, but we could have been bailed out had the bills scored even a field goal on that drive. Edited October 4, 2011 by CSBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 It was a BS call. Prior to these stills there was a half second ball bobble. That may have been the ref's "deciding" factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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