Magox Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Does Evans have value? sure... Does he have as much value as many here seem to think he has? That's debatable... Do other good WR's get double teamed? sure... Do other good WR's produce? absolutely... Even if Evans gets double teamed nearly as much as some of you believe he does, if he was half as good as you guys claim, he'd still produce more than he has... Lets face it, he is a good deep threat, and that's about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 As Schopp the dope would say, Aye yi yi already. And that is because yet another thread has degenerated into a Evans suck/Evans is God thread when that was not the point of the OP anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 (edited) Does Evans have value? sure... Does he have as much value as many here seem to think he has? That's debatable... Do other good WR's get double teamed? sure... Do other good WR's produce? absolutely... Even if Evans gets double teamed nearly as much as some of you believe he does, if he was half as good as you guys claim, he'd still produce more than he has... Lets face it, he is a good deep threat, and that's about it... That's all Lee Evans is a deep threat. If you are that worried about him you can just play zone coverage over top. But it's not something you need to do every down. When Evans was on WGR for his weekly talks they always asked him what the defenses were doing because his production was down and if anything was changing on how teams were defending him. He clearly stated what teams do against him is very vanilla, where they will put a safety over top in zone. These type of strategies is not specific to Lee Evans. It's a base defense for a lot of teams. Edited September 14, 2011 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 why is it either great, or bagging groceries? why cant he just be a very talented player that doesnt have the same fight for the ball/skill set as some of those guys, but if not accounted for can put up huge numbers quickly. you act like hes a 22 catch for 300 yards and no tds kind of player. hes not equal in ability to two of the more electrifying players in the league, but hes still.... good? weird. Tell me which professional receiver can be left alone and the defense doesn't have to worry about him catching the ball and scoring. Are you familiar with how football works? May be in the U-10 league you can leave the kid with stone hands wide open, but things change right around...oh I don't know...freshmen year of high school. Yeah, he is good. Thanks for remaking my point. He's good, he's not great. He's not the heart and soul of our offense, and we can get by without him, especially considering the depth we have at receiver. So, yeah a fourth rounder strikes me as a pretty good deal for the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Well of coarse you're 100% right about Evans and his impact on The Ravens Offense Simon...But that still does not help me considering I took him in Fantasy, started him Sunday, and got a great big goose-egg in return for it...Hopefully Teams will realize soon they can't roll Coverage to Lee's side and he'll burn them silly for me... We'll see... Let me re-post what I posted on page 3. This is what Baltimore's HC had to say... WR Lee Evans didn't catch a pass in the season opener, but he did make an impact. According to coach John Harbaugh, Evans' speed on the outside opened up crossing routes for other receivers. (Yahoo! Sports) My take Its only a matter of time before opponents start worrying more about Boldin, Dickson & Rice catching the ball and focus on those players which will leave Evans wide open. Needless to say Flacco has more then enough arm and accuracy to get him the deep ball. JMO If I recall correctly Boldin didn't have an immediate impact last season with the Ravens so you might want to hold Evans in reserve until he starts getting more targets Another thing, all those turnovers came from from the Steeler offense which was caught up in that trap of trying to play catch up. The Ravens and Steelers played a very similar playoff game last season in which the Ravens had a lead by 21-7 at the half. In that game the Steelers managed a comeback to win 31-24. Lewis, Ngata & Suggs had some serious impact in this game ...hungrier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewStewart Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 NFL Teams have not spent a majority of the last decade being drawn into a Lee Evans decoy trap. Evans does not have a significant enough production history, his best seasons are a small sample and he simply does not catch enough passes for this to make sense. Pittsburgh rolled their coverage over the top toward Evans on a few occasions because Pittsburgh played horribly. They were also blown out, so perhaps this was not a particularly smart strategy. And yes, I've watched the entire game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Tell me which professional receiver can be left alone and the defense doesn't have to worry about him catching the ball and scoring. Are you familiar with how football works? May be in the U-10 league you can leave the kid with stone hands wide open, but things change right around...oh I don't know...freshmen year of high school. Yeah, he is good. Thanks for remaking my point. He's good, he's not great. He's not the heart and soul of our offense, and we can get by without him, especially considering the depth we have at receiver. So, yeah a fourth rounder strikes me as a pretty good deal for the guy. By account for him I didn't mean "any warm body." I think that lee in man coverage is more of a handful than most the second tier WR out there. Lee doubled Is not as good as the top 5-10 guys. Lee is still a very good player. On a dysfunctional team what has he produced? An average of about 50 catches a year, 900ish yards and 6 tds? That's an offhand guess/estimate so dont totally kill me if it's really 48, 850 and 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 (edited) Wow, this thread has gotten longer than I expected when I posted on the first page yesterday...lol Noticed a few things skimming over this thread: 1. TSW ignorance has been rampant on this thread in classic form...so many people INACCURATELY citing 4 dropped passes by Evans by people who clearly did not watch a single play in the game as not one pass was dropped not catchable. In fact, the only one that was even within reach of Evans he was pass interfered with (which was not called). 2. The people wanting bash his no catch performance seem to also forget he has literally practiced with the Ravens all of about a week and a half to 2 weeks. He was in a walking boot after his second preseason game and did not practice again until 4 days before the Sunday game. Its not like he only had 2 weeks of practice on a team where he knew the playbook. This was a brand new offense and team. 3. Before his injury, he was the best receiver on the field for Balt in the preseason (and playing with the 1st unit and against the opponents first unit) despite having no rapport yet with Flacco, not knowing the playbook, and no experience in this offense. And it showed his potential in this offense. 4. In the first outing, where he only had a few days of practice to prepare for this game, Pitt kept rolling coverage over to him which opened up the rest of the field allowing Flacco plenty of easy targets and one on one matchups. Its MUCH harder for Flacco to try and force a ball into tight and doubled coverage on Evans when he has had so little time to get his timing down with him, especially with Evans speed. So he took advantage of all the open areas in the other parts of the field. 5. I find it most interesting that fans seem to think he isn't dangerous or effective, yet every single defensive coordinator that faces Evans feels the need to always double him no matter how bad the other receivers and TE's are burning them... Bottom line is this: Evans made an immediate impact on this team that had a clear impact on this game. But in the era of fantasy football, many of the so called fans dont know anything about football other than stats and dont have the capability to see how a player can impact a team off the stat sheet. Secondly, Evans is going to be a very dangerous weapon there, especially now that teams see how good the rest offense is when they roll all the extra coverage toward Evans. By the end of the year, the Ravens will have won 13 games, be competing with NE for the #1 seed, and Evans will have had his best season since 06. Edited September 14, 2011 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 NFL Teams have not spent a majority of the last decade being drawn into a Lee Evans decoy trap. Evans does not have a significant enough production history, his best seasons are a small sample and he simply does not catch enough passes for this to make sense. Pittsburgh rolled their coverage over the top toward Evans on a few occasions because Pittsburgh played horribly. They were also blown out, so perhaps this was not a particularly smart strategy. And yes, I've watched the entire game. Even in down years he has good numbers. His worst full season is like 650 yards and 6-7 tds. Over his career it's a td every 2 games-ish a lot of people would call that a threat having realized his qb and offense through the years. Again, not an elite guy but not "just some guy" like many imply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjjr Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I watched the entire game and Lee Evans looked out of rhythm. He also had a hard time getting any separation from the Steeler corners. The Ravens probably will judge him to be a success if he can beat Steeler corners in January.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewStewart Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Even in down years he has good numbers. His worst full season is like 650 yards and 6-7 tds. Over his career it's a td every 2 games-ish a lot of people would call that a threat having realized his qb and offense through the years. Again, not an elite guy but not "just some guy" like many imply His worst "full" season is 44 REC/612 yards. His worst season is 37 REC/578 yards. I'm not sure why injuries wouldn't matter -- they do. His best seasons are also very similar to his worst ones. He has one huge outlier, whoopee. No one is saying Lee Evans is not an NFL wide-out, the point that I am making is that he is not one who is worth keying double coverage on, and, in fact, teams do not for the most part. Pittsburgh did, and they lost, bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EldaBillsFan Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Apologies for starting another Evans thread but I thought it might be worth it since a) I'm probably the only dude on this board who actually watched the entire Balt/Pitt game and b)I'm probably the only guy on this board who hasn't missed a single one of those matchups in years since it's my favorite rivalry right now. Here's the truth of the matter; Lee Evans has significantly altered the entire dynamic of this division rivalry. And I'd guess that these 2 games (and sometimes 3) are the biggest reason they brought him to Baltimore. I don't care about math and/or whether he put up a single statistic. This game had Evans fingerprints on it right from the get-go. Do you know why Boldin was singled on the first TD vs a weak corner who'd been out all preseason? Because the Stillers rolled their coverage over at Evans. It's right there on the film if you want to see it. Did you know that Baltimore has repeatedly struggled to get their TE's and RB's involved in the passing game against the Stillers, and for many, many years now? Yet on Sunday they found enough space for these guys to catch about a dozen balls for 150+ yards. There were places all over the field where the Ravens have never been able to find space against Pittsburgh(flats and seams), yet now those places are suddenly vacant of defenders. I don't believe for a second that this is just a co-incidence. For the first time in years, the Ravens have the ability to stretch the field in a big way. And suddenly they have more space to work with all over the field. If y'all think that Evans isn't a significant factor in this new equation, I'd have to say you're badly mistaken on that point. P.S. This post is not intended to speculate on what Evans' may have done if he was still in Buffalo, or start tangents on why the Bills traded him. Just wanted to bring some light to the ongoing evolution of what I think is a really fascinating matchup. Doug Whaley is taking some grief from his old buddies in Pittsburgh right now because he played a part in altering the balance of power in this rivalry. But don't take any of that guff, Fresh! Give it right back to 'em with both barrels!!! im not saying Lee didnt impact the game, but he wasnt the reason for that blow out...steelers are trying to become a qucik strike offense, and on offense they tried to take advantage of the ravens secondary switch they couldnt, and they got away from the run early....offensively...the Steelers ARE NOT strong up front, and they have no name corners and THE HAIR! looked slower than ever.... hence the ravens offensive production Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 (edited) im not saying Lee didnt impact the game, but he wasnt the reason for that blow out...steelers are trying to become a qucik strike offense, and on offense they tried to take advantage of the ravens secondary switch they couldnt, and they got away from the run early....offensively...the Steelers ARE NOT strong up front, and they have no name corners and THE HAIR! looked slower than ever.... hence the ravens offensive production I would also point out that the Steelers secondary, mainly their cornerback situation is heavily in the decline and not what they use to be. There are changes to the Ravens as well, mainly their run game in which they implemented zone blocking run schemes. Something the Steelers never seen before. There are just so many factors that make up a game. Edited September 14, 2011 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I watched the entire game and Lee Evans looked out of rhythm. He also had a hard time getting any separation from the Steeler corners. The Ravens probably will judge him to be a success if he can beat Steeler corners in January.... I just had lunch with my friend, a Steelers' fan, who watched the entire game. He said the same thing. He said Ike Taylor basically blanketed Evans all day, and was probably the old good player for the Steelers on Sunday. Lee could have been hampered by his injury, but it sounds like he was largely ineffective on Sunday (as a receiving threat). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 His worst "full" season is 44 REC/612 yards. His worst season is 37 REC/578 yards. I'm not sure why injuries wouldn't matter -- they do. His best seasons are also very similar to his worst ones. He has one huge outlier, whoopee. No one is saying Lee Evans is not an NFL wide-out, the point that I am making is that he is not one who is worth keying double coverage on, and, in fact, teams do not for the most part. Pittsburgh did, and they lost, bad. An excellent point. Lee is great! How do you know? Look how Pittsburgh defended him! But that clearly didn't work for them. He drew double teams all day! That sounds like it might have been the wrong thing to do. That's just how great Lee is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 (edited) His worst "full" season is 44 REC/612 yards. His worst season is 37 REC/578 yards. I'm not sure why injuries wouldn't matter -- they do. His best seasons are also very similar to his worst ones. He has one huge outlier, whoopee. No one is saying Lee Evans is not an NFL wide-out, the point that I am making is that he is not one who is worth keying double coverage on, and, in fact, teams do not for the most part. Pittsburgh did, and they lost, bad. yea - missing 3 games last year is totally noteworthy as he has been riddled with injuries in his career. oh wait, hes missed almost no games, so it makes sense to write off those numbers as a little low due to an out of the ordinary injury. i forgot, we can write off the ones that he put up huge numbers, but not the one time he sprained his ankle. his average years put him at about 50 catches, 900 yards and 6-8 touchdowns. thats a good season. if we get that season out of whoever lines up across from stevie we would be ecstatic. Edited September 14, 2011 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 NFN, but your second comment undercuts your first. They do indeed call them receivers, thus one need not be a "Kool-Aid drinker" to wonder whether a receiver who makes no receptions is all that great..... I had the opportunity to watchboth games at once at my local sports bar. I didn't see Evans dropping any catchable balls, although I may have missed one. Evans was a threat and at the end of the season we can compare Jones and Evans if you would like. You have the advantage as Boldin is on the other side and the Ravens have an excellent tight end (Chandler may very well prove to be an excellent tight end.) Kool aid drinking would be taking the first regular season game as a criteria for judging Evans. Frankly I'm getting more and more comfortable with the trade, but think the Ravens will be better for having Evans than we are better for replacing him with Jones or Easley. I would be delighted to be wrong, but that's what I think. I had the opportunity to watchboth games at once at my local sports bar. I didn't see Evans dropping any catchable balls, although I may have missed one. Evans was a threat and at the end of the season we can compare Jones and Evans if you would like. You have the advantage as Boldin is on the other side and the Ravens have an excellent tight end (Chandler may very well prove to be an excellent tight end.) Kool aid drinking would be taking the first regular season game as a criteria for judging Evans. Frankly I'm getting more and more comfortable with the trade, but think the Ravens will be better for having Evans than we are better for replacing him with Jones or Easley. I would be delighted to be wrong, but that's what I think. oh the description of Jones drop was so colorful with him doing everything right from the get go getting into position and then not catching the ball that it seemed funny to describe such a perfect play resulting in a drop. I'd think it would be funny to describe the same play if it were Evans or even Stevie. Come to think of it, there was that play against Pittsburgh last year..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I had the opportunity to watchboth games at once at my local sports bar. I didn't see Evans dropping any catchable balls, although I may have missed one. Evans was a threat and at the end of the season we can compare Jones and Evans if you would like. You have the advantage as Boldin is on the other side and the Ravens have an excellent tight end (Chandler may very well prove to be an excellent tight end.) Kool aid drinking would be taking the first regular season game as a criteria for judging Evans. Frankly I'm getting more and more comfortable with the trade, but think the Ravens will be better for having Evans than we are better for replacing him with Jones or Easley. I would be delighted to be wrong, but that's what I think. I don't disagree there either. I think, along with San Jose and others, that it is possible for Evans to be of greater value to BALT than he could be to BUF this year. In a way, the trade can help both teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 im not saying Lee didnt impact the game, but he wasnt the reason for that blow out...steelers are trying to become a qucik strike offense, and on offense they tried to take advantage of the ravens secondary switch they couldnt, and they got away from the run early....offensively...the Steelers ARE NOT strong up front, and they have no name corners and THE HAIR! looked slower than ever.... hence the ravens offensive production Seven turnovers helps with a blow out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I don't disagree there either. I think, along with San Jose and others, that it is possible for Evans to be of greater value to BALT than he could be to BUF this year. In a way, the trade can help both teams. it probably will be a benefit to both teams. As good as Evans is he is no spring chicken, and I'm starting to see that Gailey is really looking to build HIS team which frankly means getting rid of a number of good players from the old regime to get players who fit into HIS system. I'm starting to see he may have the right strategy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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