Not holding my breath, NGU

[Beerball]

I am such damned liar!

 

JW...or anyone out there...please tell me when the roster bonus was paid to Evans.

[DaveinElma]

Call out threads always come off as immature. I'm not saying you are, but there's no way around it. Even the most deserved or well intentioned- they all look silly in the end.

 

+1

 

If anything it gives credence to Never Give Up.

[Doc]

Cutting Evans saved the Bills 3.25 million this year and 4.75 million next year. You assume the Bills weren't trying to trade him before the roster bonus was due which may not be the case. Other teams aren't stupid and probably waited to make the Bills pay it or see if they released him before making offers.

By paying him the $1.1M bonus, they saved just $2.6M ($3.25M salary plus remaining $400K roster bonus minus $1.1M in paid bonuses). If saving money was the motivating factor, saving another $1.1M would have made far more sense, rather than paying it in exchange for a 4th round pick.

[EC-Bills]

My take is a more appropriate response from NGU would have been to say we agree to disagree or something like that regarding the situation. Instead we have an anonymous poster question JW's integrity. JW's lays his name on the line when he publishes an article. While I appreciate the info that NGU has provided on the board, his response was *inappropriate*! If you question a person's integrity, man up and back it up. Don't make a statement and hide behind an anonymous name.

[Billy Zabka]

I can understand JW's frustration here. The man goes out of his way to shed some light from behind the scenes at OBD, to show fans that the GM still doesn't have total control over personnel and he gets hammered on here by some people for it. Whether they be paid OBD employees, shills, kool-aid drinkers or whatever who keep attacking him, it's rather pathetic. Good job JW keep up the good reporting.

[Jim in Anchorage]

YE OLE feels the need to chime in and say that we collectively hope this can not continue to escalate. Collectively this board greatly appreciates the contributions that JW makes and it's clear that NGU has an inside scoop over everyone. Most all of the info. he has brought us has been well ahead of any reports from any media source and always 100% accurate. NGU, in fact, may actually be someone IN the organization. Lets not run him off either.

Who cares? Find out today or find out tomorrow. Whats the diff? I have no idea what this dispute is about, but support JW because he is a happy drunk

[JoeF]

We are making way too much of how this transaction went down and ignoring the fact that in May of this year Chan said this...

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article374016.ece

 

- He said wide receiver Lee Evans, who put up career-low numbers last season, needs to get more consistent running routes. Gailey also wants to expand the type of routes Evans is asked to run.

 

"He's been more of a deep threat," Gailey said. "I've got to get him to do a better job of becoming an underneath threat. I've got to do a better job of that."

 

If Chan cared deeply about this trade--he would have been blunt like he has been.

 

JW/NGU--love you both...but Evans was not a valued commodity by the football people...

[Nevergiveup]

as the thread in question has now been locked, it leaves a certain unanswered question lingering in regards to my reputation and certain baseless accusations made by an anonymous poster. so i'm opening this thread in the event said poster would care to muster a response, and verify how he believes i don't know what i know.

 

well?

 

jw

 

I am not hear to rile anyone up. I stand by my record. If John Warrow has a history of posting accurate inside information, I would love to hear about it. Of course someone could have told him that Jim Overdorf was behind that trade. For him to believe and report it shows he knows less about the inner workings of that organization than most of the people on the board. Your relationships there are superficial at best and I am quite confident that no one is feeding you any legitimate inside information. If it was someone outside the team, like Lee's or his agent, you should know better. Amazing that you all of a sudden have a pipeline into the team that would disclose something like that. More importantly it is completely inaccurate. Go ahead and stand by your report if it makes you feel better, but to believe it is hopefully just ignorance and not worse.

 

He comes the journalistic integrity battle cry. Yes I am sure you are completely above reproach. And not revealing my identity does not make me wrong. I think I have been pretty accurate in the past.

 

I apologize to the board. I am not trying to drive away someone you might want to pariticpate. However if you think you are getting inside info from him or anyone of the other beat writers for this team, you are wrong.

[DC Tom]

JW - I understand all that and agree generally.... But this thread probably reflects worse than any of his comments. You have established your rep here, a single anonymous poster isn't going to hurt it. There's no way it ends up hurting you professionally. It's not going to effect your career... Call out threads always come off as immature. I'm not saying you are, but there's no way around it. Even the most deserved or well intentioned- they all look silly in the end.

 

You aren't going to get back whatever you thought you lost from that original post by running with this. All you've done is brought it to the attention of everyone reading on a probably higher traffic weekend with cuts and the opening weekend.

 

It's not just *here*, though...NGU claims some sort of connection to the team, then accuses jw of not having any sources or knowledge of what he's writing about - basically, accuses jw of making **** up. That's a direct attack on jw's professional integrity.

 

Hell, even if I said jw was making **** up, it would still be an attack on his integrity, just one with little meaning because who the !@#$ am I? Coming from NGU...much more serious.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

I can understand JW's frustration here. The man goes out of his way to shed some light from behind the scenes at OBD, to show fans that the GM still doesn't have total control over personnel and he gets hammered on here by some people for it. Whether they be paid OBD employees, shills, kool-aid drinkers or whatever who keep attacking him, it's rather pathetic. Good job JW keep up the good reporting.

 

Looking beyond that cascade of unnecessary insults, this bolded statement is the basis of my question. What exactly have we learned here?

[DC Tom]

JW and NGU have opposing viewpoints/reports on this situation. But, since we know JW's identity, and thus how he's connected to the team, his reports carry much more weight than some random poster who refuses to reveal himself, no matter how much he's been correct. NGU neds to identify how he's connected with the team. He doesn't need to name himself or his sources, but it is possible to reveal how you are connected and still protect your sources.

 

If NGU refuses to identify himself, based on that refusal and his previous correct info, its fair to assume he works for the team. In which case, he's going to lie and tow the company line and attempt to discredit the press, something the Bills' brass has been very fond of during this ugly 12 years of futility.

 

Point of note: it's "toe the line", not "tow".

 

That is all.

[Billy Zabka]

By paying him the $1.1M bonus, they saved just $2.6M ($3.25M salary plus remaining $400K roster bonus minus $1.1M in paid bonuses). If saving money was the motivating factor, saving another $1.1M would have made far more sense, rather than paying it in exchange for a 4th round pick.

 

I think outright releasing Lee Evans would have created a huge backlash from Bills fans knowing they could have gotten something in return. Also if you believe the rumors, it was only after the Bills were closing in on a contract extension with Kyle Williams did Overdorf get word to cut salary and present Nix with a list of names to decide which to move.

[Delete This Account]

I am not hear to rile anyone up. I stand by my record. If John Warrow has a history of posting accurate inside information, I would love to hear about it. Of course someone could have told him that Jim Overdorf was behind that trade. For him to believe and report it shows he knows less about the inner workings of that organization than most of the people on the board. Your relationships there are superficial at best and I am quite confident that no one is feeding you any legitimate inside information. If it was someone outside the team, like Lee's or his agent, you should know better. Amazing that you all of a sudden have a pipeline into the team that would disclose something like that. More importantly it is completely inaccurate. Go ahead and stand by your report if it makes you feel better, but to believe it is hopefully just ignorance and not worse.

 

He comes the journalistic integrity battle cry. Yes I am sure you are completely above reproach. And not revealing my identity does not make me wrong. I think I have been pretty accurate in the past.

 

I apologize to the board. I am not trying to drive away someone you might want to pariticpate. However if you think you are getting inside info from him or anyone of the other beat writers for this team, you are wrong.

so, you're saying there wasn't a conversation between two people at the 2010 NFL combine in regards to the discussion here at hand?

so you're saying that if i got it from the agent, i would be wrong? cool, so i'm not wrong, then.

so, you're saying that there wasn't more to Pat Williams departure than what's been detailed here?

so you're saying, that the entire coaching staff knew Troy Vincent was placed on IR, when he was, and that a certain person in a great position of power on this team wasn't actually caught off guard by the move?

 

it's all very intriguing. thanks for the response.

 

jw

 

sorry, one last thing: so Jim Overdorf didn't handle the trade?

 

oh, sorry, it's Wawrow. you've had a few chances to get it right, not that i'm questioning your insights and accuracy, here.

Edited September 3, 2011 by john wawrow

[Ramius]

I am not hear to rile anyone up. I stand by my record. If John Warrow has a history of posting accurate inside information, I would love to hear about it. Of course someone could have told him that Jim Overdorf was behind that trade. For him to believe and report it shows he knows less about the inner workings of that organization than most of the people on the board. Your relationships there are superficial at best and I am quite confident that no one is feeding you any legitimate inside information. If it was someone outside the team, like Lee's or his agent, you should know better. Amazing that you all of a sudden have a pipeline into the team that would disclose something like that. More importantly it is completely inaccurate. Go ahead and stand by your report if it makes you feel better, but to believe it is hopefully just ignorance and not worse.

 

He comes the journalistic integrity battle cry. Yes I am sure you are completely above reproach. And not revealing my identity does not make me wrong. I think I have been pretty accurate in the past.

 

I apologize to the board. I am not trying to drive away someone you might want to pariticpate. However if you think you are getting inside info from him or anyone of the other beat writers for this team, you are wrong.

 

And if you're connected to the team, you're going to toe the company line, and tell us all to ignore the man behind the curtain and continue buying tickets. You're pissed off because JW blew the doors off the mickey mouse way this franchise has been run for well over a decade (and for most of its existence)

 

Face it, you're doing exactly what the Bills brass has been doing for years. Instead of defending the piss poor way the team has been run, the team attacks the journalists and reporters who dare to question the shenanigans of the Bills ownership.

 

Point of note: it's "toe the line", not "tow".

 

That is all.

 

Thanks, Dad.

Edited September 3, 2011 by Ramius

[Kelly the Dog]

I am not hear to rile anyone up. I stand by my record. If John Warrow has a history of posting accurate inside information, I would love to hear about it. Of course someone could have told him that Jim Overdorf was behind that trade. For him to believe and report it shows he knows less about the inner workings of that organization than most of the people on the board. Your relationships there are superficial at best and I am quite confident that no one is feeding you any legitimate inside information. If it was someone outside the team, like Lee's or his agent, you should know better. Amazing that you all of a sudden have a pipeline into the team that would disclose something like that. More importantly it is completely inaccurate. Go ahead and stand by your report if it makes you feel better, but to believe it is hopefully just ignorance and not worse.

 

He comes the journalistic integrity battle cry. Yes I am sure you are completely above reproach. And not revealing my identity does not make me wrong. I think I have been pretty accurate in the past.

 

I apologize to the board. I am not trying to drive away someone you might want to pariticpate. However if you think you are getting inside info from him or anyone of the other beat writers for this team, you are wrong.

In other words, fans of the Buffalo Bills can never believe anything from the front office of the team because they never tell reporters that cover the team what really goes on? Got it.

 

Oh, and there are no such things as leaks. Employees never talk to each other or out of school. There is no such thing as off the record. Underlings never know what their bosses are doing and saying on the phone. Former high level employees never tell the truth about what happens behind the scenes because they are all just bitter losers. 800 million dollar companies never protect themselves by giving out false public information. And the Bills -- EGADS -- would never make a decision monetarily that was not in the best interest of the talent on the team.

[Doc]

I think outright releasing Lee Evans would have created a huge backlash from Bills fans knowing they could have gotten something in return. Also if you believe the rumors, it was only after the Bills were closing in on a contract extension with Kyle Williams did Overdorf get word to cut salary and present Nix with a list of names to decide which to move.

So they paid Evans $1.1M in bonus to avoid a backlash from fans for not getting a pick? Again if they cared mostly about the money and not the team, why would they care what the fans think?

[John Cocktosten]

I am not hear to rile anyone up. I stand by my record. If John Warrow has a history of posting accurate inside information, I would love to hear about it. Of course someone could have told him that Jim Overdorf was behind that trade. For him to believe and report it shows he knows less about the inner workings of that organization than most of the people on the board. Your relationships there are superficial at best and I am quite confident that no one is feeding you any legitimate inside information. If it was someone outside the team, like Lee's or his agent, you should know better. Amazing that you all of a sudden have a pipeline into the team that would disclose something like that. More importantly it is completely inaccurate. Go ahead and stand by your report if it makes you feel better, but to believe it is hopefully just ignorance and not worse.

 

He comes the journalistic integrity battle cry. Yes I am sure you are completely above reproach. And not revealing my identity does not make me wrong. I think I have been pretty accurate in the past.

 

I apologize to the board. I am not trying to drive away someone you might want to pariticpate. However if you think you are getting inside info from him or anyone of the other beat writers for this team, you are wrong.

 

 

Hey NGU,

 

If you truly are on the inside of OBD, can you tell them to stop sucking at football? Thanks.

 

Sincerely,

JC

[I_want_2_BILL_Lieve]

YE OLE feels the need to chime in and say that we collectively hope this can not continue to escalate. Collectively this board greatly appreciates the contributions that JW makes and it's clear that NGU has an inside scoop over everyone. Most all of the info. he has brought us has been well ahead of any reports from any media source and always 100% accurate. NGU, in fact, may actually be someone IN the organization. Lets not run him off either.

 

 

+1

 

 

This is uncomfortable. Two of my favorite posters are now going at it. Keep writing JW. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to post on this board.

 

But how can anyone know for sure that a reporter doesn't have meaningful conversations with someone in an organization. That's a reporters job. I would expect him to.

[Kelly the Dog]

Point of note: it's "toe the line", not "tow".

 

That is all.

Maybe he towed the line far enough that he didn't have to straddle it. Ever think of that, genius?!

[5 Wide]

I read this as semantics. NGU is saying that JW does not have "inside information" and is saying he isn't directly tapped into the pipeline. If that is to mean he does not know the conversations that go on between Ralph, Overdorf, Brandon, Nix & Gailey, I would say that is likely true. The Bills seem to go to great lengths to keep the workings at the top of the food chain top secret. Anything that comes directly from the upper levels seems to be rehearsed, and calculated. Now to say JW has no inside information is a bit self serving and has a bit of venom to it. I'm sure JW has a plethora of sources ranging from league personnel, team personnel, players, agents and others that he uses to generate and corroborate stories. I think the point is that NGU is saying that the highest level conversations are never revealed to the media. It's always seemed like the Bills brass has operated like the CIA with the types of information and mis-information that have been generated over the years.