Hplarrm Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 We all hope for the Bills will stay but after hearing the highest bidder speech from Ralph with nothing further having been said since, I think caution is in order about dreaming something different. Ralph is a businessman first & this was an investment, so I would expect that will not change after all this time. Ralph the businessman has agreed with his partners that the team will not be sold to a new owner without the approval of 70%+ of the other owners. This makes sense in that if Mr. Ralph or his estate could simply sell to the highest bidder without the approval of the vast majority of his partners, the other NFL team owners then without regard to whether highest bidder was Donald Trump, Rush Limbaugh, or Osama Bin Laden's son then that person would become a partner in the NFL. Do you agree that any new owner in order to even qualify as a bidder would need the approval of a vast majority of the owners and other key stakeholders like the players. Rush Limbaugh did not believe this and he ain't an owner today because of this. The fact Sully and others overlook this basic point makes their views silly. Sully is correct that > The owners are interested in one thing: Profit. but he misses the fact and fails to calculate in his fantasy outcomes that the profit comes not from ticket sales and whether your market is small but from the TV networks and the REAL source of NFL profits! Ticket sales and market size are marginally important to the individual owner but this margin is very small compared to the real money and profits of the TV networks. Any theory which does not take this market reality into account is mere bloviating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Waaggghhhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryland-bills-fan Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) Just a point. Ralph's will will specify what happens to the team after his death. His assets do not become the property of an "estate", who decide what to do with it. It is very unlikely that he will die without a will and that a court will then appoint executors to depose of his estate. There is no reason why the Bills wold have to be sold to the highest bidder. There is no reason why he could not specify that the buyer of the Bills has to keep the team in Buffalo under terms of the sale. Edited June 19, 2011 by maryland-bills-fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Well.. yes you are correct. Just don't think Ralph is selling to the highest bidder because he's milking a buck. His estate (not him) would have to sell to the highest bidder because all they can afford to do. This is a similar case Redskins Its sad that these teams have to be sold from families that have owned them for years just because they can't afford the tax. All in all I hate to see something like that happen to the Bills. I hope Ralph would consider selling a minority stake of the team to a Buffalo interest to help pay for the tax before he dies. And to help insure the team staying in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 We all hope for the Bills will stay but after hearing the highest bidder speech from Ralph with nothing further having been said since, I think caution is in order about dreaming something different. Ralph is a businessman first & this was an investment, so I would expect that will not change after all this time. Give us a link to this alleged speech please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) We all hope for the Bills will stay but after hearing the highest bidder speech from Ralph with nothing further having been said since, I think caution is in order about dreaming something different. Ralph is a businessman first & this was an investment, so I would expect that will not change after all this time. This speech hasn't happened. Edited June 20, 2011 by Ghost of Rob Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappy Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 The 89-year-old Wilson doesn't intend to sell or relocate the Bills while he's alive, but does plan to have the team sold to the highest bidder after his death. NFL.com link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 NFL.com link Some sports writer made the claim that Wilson said that. It was never corroborated. Looks like the writer of that article used it. Because again, it's not as simple as "selling it to the highest bidder." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 NFL.com link If the quote provided in this NFL link is the best that can be provided in terms of Ralph stating a plan to sell to the highest bidder then it seems pretty clear that Ralph is not on record declaring that the team will be sold to the highest bidder. Even beyond that if such an on the record quote does exist he can obviously change his mind about this up until the last minute or so. Trumping all of this is the fact that by rule and Ralph's agreement no NFL team can transfer ownership without the approval of 70% of his fellow owners. This is only logical as if Muammar Khadafi were the highest bidder, the other owners can block this from happening unless 70% of the fellow owners agree. Without regard to what dead Ralph says in his will, one cannot force his former fellow NFL owners to diminish the value of their property because dead Ralph says the team must be sold to the highest bidder. The contention that the Bills must be sold to the highest bidder is simply wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Rest assure...the team will remain in Buffalo after Ralph's death for sometime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappy Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 I hope you guys are right but seeing how just about everything of value in business has left Buffalo, this seems hard to fathom. Unless your a debt collector, Buffalo is not the land of opportunity. Which all falls back on the long-term viability of having a NFL team there in the first place. If you had a billion to buy a NFL franchise, would you pick the Buffalo franchise?? It wasn't Ralph's first choice either, warm weather Miami was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griswold Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 "We're doomed. Dooomed" It's a movie quote. I can't place it though.. Google didn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yakkydoodle Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 "We're doomed. Dooomed" It's a movie quote. I can't place it though.. Google didn't help. Chuckie from the Rugrats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 NFL.com link Moving speech by Ralph Wilson in that link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappy Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Moving speech by Ralph Wilson in that link. How did it come across then?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) How did it come across then?? Considering there's no quote it comes accross as the writer's word, not Ralph Wilson's. As far as I know his plans for the team after he dies haven't been made public. I guess that the reports out there it makes sense to take caution, but without knowing how reliable it is I'm not sure how much stock I'd put into it. Especially since it's from 3 years ago and reports to the contrary have come out as well. Edited June 20, 2011 by Ghost of Rob Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never NEVER Give-up Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 The key word is "known", as in no KNOWN plan. Maybe when he leaves it to his wife (there's NO estate tax there), she will sell only a controlling interest with a stipulation the team remain in WNY. Or she sells all of it with the same stipulation. The problem here is I am speculating - and so is Jerry Sullivan. When there's this much money on the table, there are a myriad of potential scenarios that could play out. Running through all the scenarios only serves to drive people crazy with the speculation. As we have no control and one option is NOT having the community buy the team, we are wise to let it run its course, enjoy the rebuilding Buddy & Chan are leading and support the team so when Mary Wilson or some other party/parties comes along, they need to consider keeping the team right here. One thing no one ever seemed to consider . . . if the Bills were perrenial winners, would there be as much talk of moving the team? We'll never know. Jerry is right, not one of the greedy NFL owners cares if the Bills stay put. The Bills are not considered an institution like Cleveland who got another franchise. (I don't know why Cleveland is considered special, the Browns haven't done anything special since the early 60's.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappy Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Man I hope you're right. Considering there's no quote it comes accross as the writer's word, not Ralph Wilson's. As far as I know his plans for the team after he dies haven't been made public. I guess that the reports out there it makes sense to take caution, but without knowing how reliable it is I'm not sure how much stock I'd put into it. Especially since it's from 3 years ago and reports to the contrary have come out as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Perhaps somebody has already discussed this, but how would the NFL realign itself if a team or two teams moved to LA? I see this issue being the reason that Buffalo stays put. I don't see the majority of NFL owners, especially in the AFC, going along with a vote for a move if it requires massive realignment of the conference. The AFC East and West are the same as they were in 1960. Would the NFL kill those rivalries for the sake of a team in LA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 ... Ralph is complaining about the new 90% to be paid to players on the table, I see him looking for every dime after he is gone. ... Is there an article anywhere quoting RW's complaints about the 90% cap floor? Or are you just making up stuff as usual? GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRQ_BillsFan Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 By not announcing his intentions I think the Bills benefit fro extra ticket sales by holding the team hostage. He wants to keep it until he dies. If he said Kelly's group would get it afterwards I think some people would stop buying tickets for this pitiful team until then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 That entire article is total garbage. LA had two teams, wound up being an epic fail. Once one team moves there, it also will fail, then they will not get another team. Also, when you combine Buffalo, Rochester, and Southern Ontario, you have around 8 MILLION people. That's a larger market than most NFL teams have. Perahps in the top 5. When people say "the Buffalo market is small" they are looking only at the City of Buffalo. If the team moved to Niagara Falls, it could more easily tap into the 8 million Canadians (many of whom already attend Bills games, just try crossing into Canada after a Bills game). The Bills market is not "small." Buffalo is small because NYS politicians have taxed most employers out of the region. But the Buffalo area (Rochester, Buffalo, Southern Ontario) is larger than most NFL markets. Sullivan is a hack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backinwny Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 All the more reason to centralize the team closer to a majority of the fanbase with a new stadium in Niagara Falls, one of the seven wonders of the world. How many other stadiums / teams have one of the 7 in their backyard ?? Love the idea just be carefull with the marketing.....Niagra Falls is not one of the 7 wonders....... Weird I know..... Love the idea just be carefull with the marketing.....Niagra Falls is not one of the 7 wonders....... Weird I know..... Also, I swear I can spell.... With a little help from spell check...."careful" and "Niagara" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananahands Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 If "Wilson has no known succession plan" how does Sullivan know "He plans to have the team auctioned to the highest bidder?" Makes no sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Perhaps somebody has already discussed this, but how would the NFL realign itself if a team or two teams moved to LA? I see this issue being the reason that Buffalo stays put. I don't see the majority of NFL owners, especially in the AFC, going along with a vote for a move if it requires massive realignment of the conference. The AFC East and West are the same as they were in 1960. Would the NFL kill those rivalries for the sake of a team in LA? Again, no one also has explained how if the accepted wisdom is true that the NFL always goes for profit and where the money sits, then it has to be relevant that by far the lionshare of the profit and money comes from the TV networks and not the gate sales. Folks keep talking about the Bills having a small market as though the geographic market rules decision-making. This is simply not the case as the real market where the profit and raw dollars come from is the TV market. Yes, the geographic market makes a significant market difference if the base of the TV money is the same for all amd the market question is simply a comparison of whether you add a ton of money on from a large market like LA or a "mere" half ton on money from a smaller market like Buffalo. Actually, what the market case is for decision-making: 1. The small vs. large market differences are washed out a lot now that the salary cap is set based on total revenue of the league teams from any source rather than a designated gross which exempts items such as luxury seats from the cap. 2. It has now been clearly demonstrated that even though the past CBAs were based on a "trust" that the NFL teams would accurately calculate and report their total gross receipts to their partners, the players, (by threatening decertification after the mid-80s lockout the players and the team owners basically formed a partnership embodied in the CBA). However, by deciding to re-open the deal early as the owners had a right to do and then negotiating "lock-out" insurance where the NFL and the players get less money from the deal in exchange for payment to the teams by the networks even if there is no product due to a lockout, the NFL owners are treating the players as traditional employees rather than as partners. The NFLPA has clearly recognized and operated under a 21st century market analysis that judges that the true customers are reflected not in the gate receipts (certainly a necessary but smaller cash stream than what the TV networks deliver, but in the TV payments. Overall, I think Buffalo Bills fans have a clear choice. Root for the owners to "win" their fight with the NFLPA and the result means no football in the immediate term as if the Appeals court overturning of the lower court decision in favor of the NFLPA we are back to lockout mode. If the NFLPA wins then we have football as normal. In the longer term- if the team owners win then the Bills stay in Buffalo until Ralph dies and when he dies something else happens but the Bills may be gone. On the other hand, if the NFLPA wins the suit as they did in the lower court then the likelihood is that football continues as in the past and the Bills stay. it seems odd to me that anyone would be rooting for the owners to "win" because if they do we fans are definitely screwed in the short term and have little recourse if Ralph or circumstance screws us in the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) I think the succession plan (whatever it is) is bad news for fans.. and would drive away fans and hit the bottom line. A rationale businessman on death's door step would sell now... it's better for his family in the end. Speculating on this could go on for days. I agree, if Ralph gave a rat's ass about the fans in Buffalo, he would sell now or at least publish a succession plan, so the best fans in the NFL knew what to look forward to. Just another knife in the back of the Bills fans by Ralph, who like someone else said, has held Western New York hostage for a couple decades now. You kinda get the sense that his thinking is, "who gives a crap what happens to the fans of the Buffalo Bills after I am gone, I won't be here to listen to them whine." Edited June 20, 2011 by billsfreak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 that seems logical for sure, but leads to me thinking about other questions . who determines when ralph is incapable of making decisions? , who decides that?, is he in fact, making decisions now?, these are just things i wonder about. is he mentally competent to decide his position on the new CBA? Certainly not Jerry Sullivan. He has not been mentally competent since he has written opinion pieces for Buffalo News. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Certainly not Jerry Sullivan. He has not been mentally competent since he has written opinion pieces for Buffalo News. my point, today, the owners are meeting in chicago, is ralph there?? if not , who is ??, who is deciding how ralph thinks? is ralph thinking at all?.. not trying to be flip, just very curious.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I agree, if Ralph gave a rat's ass about the fans in Buffalo, he would sell now or at least publish a succession plan, so the best fans in the NFL knew what to look forward to. Just another knife in the back of the Bills fans by Ralph, who like someone else said, has held Western New York hostage for a couple decades now. You kinda get the sense that his thinking is, "who gives a crap what happens to the fans of the Buffalo Bills after I am gone, I won't be here to listen to them whine." "Held hostage." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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