Raise The Debt Limit Already!

[DC Tom]

From that quote, I'm guessing that any savings that Obamacare is set to achieve are toast, because we can't let grandmas in South Florida die.

 

But therein lies the brilliance of the plan: dying in South Florida is redundant.

[Magox]

I want to know what idiot on this board believes that this health insurance bill is a good start for helping lower soaring health care costs.

 

Anyone?

[Adam]

I want to know what idiot on this board believes that this health insurance bill is a good start for helping lower soaring health care costs.

 

Anyone?

I will admit, I am not very knowledgable about the bill. Unfortunately, our wonderful elected officials won't open state lines to competition, because the wealthy healthcare lobby knows how much that would take away from their bottom line. Its a shame Congress works for them, instead of us.

[Doc]

So let me see if I have this straight: we have a health care law that forbids denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions...meaning that you can purchase insurance "as needed". And the law also fines people for not carrying insurance, with fines that are at best on par with the cost of insurance coverage.

 

And now we're discussing a bill that reduces - rather significantly - the tax deductions for health insurance, thus making it more expensive to carry insurance.

 

 

In ten years' time, when some numbnuts says "Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time," I will be the first to say "No, it really didn't."

From what I've seen, the fines are so low, it makes more sense for people to not carry insurance coverage and get it "as needed." If the fines/taxes/whatevertheywanttocallitomakeitsoundlegal were truly as much as carrying insurance, Obamacare might have a chance to work. But then, it would still force people to buy a private company product. And then there are the millions of exceptions.

[Magox]

From what I've seen, the fines are so low, it makes more sense for people to not carry insurance coverage and get it "as needed." If the fines/taxes/whatevertheywanttocallitomakeitsoundlegal were truly as much as carrying insurance, Obamacare might have a chance to work. But then, it would still force people to buy a private company product. And then there are the millions of exceptions.

You sir, would be correct. I mean, the whole point of the mandate was to be used as a mechanism to lower premiums, the idea behind it is that you would have more people entering into the pools, thereby lowering the cost of healthinsurance. The problem as you stated is that he fines are so low that many people will just opt to pay the fine, and since you can't get denied coverage, when they become ill they will just pick up insurance when needed, thereby jacking up peoples premiums even higher than what we are seeing today.

 

I mean for !@#$'s sakes, if you are gonna this route, and the mandate is the primary driver they have to lower health insurance premiums, then make the fines high enough to where people won't opt out.

[DC Tom]

From what I've seen, the fines are so low, it makes more sense for people to not carry insurance coverage and get it "as needed." If the fines/taxes/whatevertheywanttocallitomakeitsoundlegal were truly as much as carrying insurance, Obamacare might have a chance to work. But then, it would still force people to buy a private company product. And then there are the millions of exceptions.

 

My point being, though, that a bunch of nitwits on the Hill want to increase that imbalance by removing the tax incentive for getting insurance in the first place? And these nitwits are presenting the SMART plan?

 

I don't know if there's any clearer example of how Congress makes laws in a complete and utter vacuum...

[Doc]

My point being, though, that a bunch of nitwits on the Hill want to increase that imbalance by removing the tax incentive for getting insurance in the first place? And these nitwits are presenting the SMART plan?

 

I don't know if there's any clearer example of how Congress makes laws in a complete and utter vacuum...

That goes without saying. But the tax incentive won't make a difference (whether they know it or not). People will pay the fine because it's cheaper to do so than pay for health insurance, even with the tax incentive lowered.

[Peace]

Well, both sides are flushing this opportunity right down the drain. Obama ends up playing politics with the taxes as do the Republicans. Vote for an incumbent in 2012 if you like what's happening.

[DC Tom]

You really are an idiot. "The Republicans" aren't going to "lose", and Obama's not going to "win". The two parties are playing a brinksmanship game, they'll end up passing a debt increase at the eleventh hour, with no meaningful spending cuts and no meaningful tax increases, so both sides can claim "victory".

 

 

DC Tom is right, they will get this done in the 11th hour, there will be no tax increases. The only added revenues that will result out of this will be some sort of corporate wellfare loophole that will be closed. That´s it, no tax increases, I can assure you of that.

 

If anything, the press will come out saying that the GOP got the better of the deal. There will be alot more cuts than tax increases, and in regards to the Pentagon cuts, there is a new dynamic occuring in the conservative party, they are becoming less the neo cons that they were before, there is a libertarian streak within them. This trend will continue....

 

 

Yeah, THOSE were tough calls...

[pBills]

All in all the deal MAY be done. However, according to reports the Cut, Cap and Balance coalition says they won't support the new deal. 39 House Rs and 10 R Sens have signed the CCB pledge. Personally I am sick and tired of this we're holding everything hostage act. They need to grow up and compromise.

 

Hell, as a Democrat I am not happy with the deal because revenue was not on the table, BUT I would be willing to go along with it because it needs to be done. They should hold their fights to where they belong... during Budget negotiations. NOT when dealing with the debt ceiling.

 

Big question is will they ever realize that revenue WILL have to be addressed?

 

 

 

Creating this atmosphere, blaming the President for it by saying he is using it for political gain yet...

 

In call with GOP, Cantor calls debt deal a "win for the conservative movement" that will help defeat "this President in 2012"

[Dave_In_Norfolk]

All in all the deal MAY be done. However, according to reports the Cut, Cap and Balance coalition says they won't support the new deal. 39 House Rs and 10 R Sens have signed the CCB pledge. Personally I am sick and tired of this we're holding everything hostage act. They need to grow up and compromise.

 

Hell, as a Democrat I am not happy with the deal because revenue was not on the table, BUT I would be willing to go along with it because it needs to be done. They should hold their fights to where they belong... during Budget negotiations. NOT when dealing with the debt ceiling.

 

Big question is will they ever realize that revenue WILL have to be addressed?

 

 

 

Creating this atmosphere, blaming the President for it by saying he is using it for political gain yet...

 

In call with GOP, Cantor calls debt deal a "win for the conservative movement" that will help defeat "this President in 2012"

Color me skeptical as well. I'll believe it when I see it actually pass the House. I hope my stocks make some serious gains today, as they appear ready to do. I sold my NetSuit (N) Stock Friday in a close of the Market day thing and it rose almost 10% before it sold. It's profits rise when there is a weak dollar because of its large overseas workforce, so I bet it falls back today, but I (Cha-Ching!) banked that profit! Bought some Apple in its place. Can't go wrong there.

 

 

Politically, it was interestng to see the military budget appear to take a hit. I hope my Democrats don't have to vote for Entitlement cuts so those can be blamed all on the GOP and we can get both Houses of Congress back for Obama in 2012 going forward.

 

All in all the deal MAY be done. However, according to reports the Cut, Cap and Balance coalition says they won't support the new deal. 39 House Rs and 10 R Sens have signed the CCB pledge. Personally I am sick and tired of this we're holding everything hostage act. They need to grow up and compromise.

 

Hell, as a Democrat I am not happy with the deal because revenue was not on the table, BUT I would be willing to go along with it because it needs to be done. They should hold their fights to where they belong... during Budget negotiations. NOT when dealing with the debt ceiling.

 

Big question is will they ever realize that revenue WILL have to be addressed?

 

 

 

Creating this atmosphere, blaming the President for it by saying he is using it for political gain yet...

 

In call with GOP, Cantor calls debt deal a "win for the conservative movement" that will help defeat "this President in 2012"

Color me skeptical as well. I'll believe it when I see it actually pass the House. I hope my stocks make some serious gains today, as they appear ready to do. I sold my NetSuit (N) Stock Friday in a close of the Market day thing and it rose almost 10% before it sold. It's profits rise when there is a weak dollar because of its large overseas workforce, so I bet it falls back today, but I (Cha-Ching!) banked that profit! Bought some Apple in its place. Can't go wrong there.

 

 

Politically, it was interestng to see the military budget appear to take a hit. I hope my Democrats don't have to vote for Entitlement cuts so those can be blamed all on the GOP and we can get both Houses of Congress back for Obama in 2012 going forward.

[pBills]

Color me skeptical as well. I'll believe it when I see it actually pass the House. I hope my stocks make some serious gains today, as they appear ready to do. I sold my NetSuit (N) Stock Friday in a close of the Market day thing and it rose almost 10% before it sold. It's profits rise when there is a weak dollar because of its large overseas workforce, so I bet it falls back today, but I (Cha-Ching!) banked that profit! Bought some Apple in its place. Can't go wrong there.

 

 

Politically, it was interestng to see the military budget appear to take a hit. I hope my Democrats don't have to vote for Entitlement cuts so those can be blamed all on the GOP and we can get both Houses of Congress back for Obama in 2012 going forward.

 

 

Color me skeptical as well. I'll believe it when I see it actually pass the House. I hope my stocks make some serious gains today, as they appear ready to do. I sold my NetSuit (N) Stock Friday in a close of the Market day thing and it rose almost 10% before it sold. It's profits rise when there is a weak dollar because of its large overseas workforce, so I bet it falls back today, but I (Cha-Ching!) banked that profit! Bought some Apple in its place. Can't go wrong there.

 

 

Politically, it was interestng to see the military budget appear to take a hit. I hope my Democrats don't have to vote for Entitlement cuts so those can be blamed all on the GOP and we can get both Houses of Congress back for Obama in 2012 going forward.

 

 

 

As of right now it many believe it won't. Which really says something about the Republican leaders. Entitlements will be huge next year during the election cycle. There's something to be said about being willing to make significant cuts to entitlements, yet having a hard time making defense spending cuts and of course not budging AT ALL on closing tax loop holes, etc. Politically it was a dumb move by the Right. I guess they will have to come up with the next Death Panel to scare senior citizens to vote their way again.

[Dave_In_Norfolk]

Judging by Wall Street today they are taking a cautious approach to this. Nothing has passed yet and the Right Wing hate machine hasn't kicked in yet to pressure these Representatives to do their duty to crash this economy. So we are still in wait and see approach

[DC Tom]

All in all the deal MAY be done. However, according to reports the Cut, Cap and Balance coalition says they won't support the new deal. 39 House Rs and 10 R Sens have signed the CCB pledge. Personally I am sick and tired of this we're holding everything hostage act. They need to grow up and compromise.

 

Hell, as a Democrat I am not happy with the deal because revenue was not on the table, BUT I would be willing to go along with it because it needs to be done. They should hold their fights to where they belong... during Budget negotiations. NOT when dealing with the debt ceiling.

 

Big question is will they ever realize that revenue WILL have to be addressed?

 

 

 

Creating this atmosphere, blaming the President for it by saying he is using it for political gain yet...

 

In call with GOP, Cantor calls debt deal a "win for the conservative movement" that will help defeat "this President in 2012"

 

Yeah, I posted that based on what I heard on the radio, before actually reading up on what was really going on.

 

Generally, I agree with you...right up to the point where you started going all partisan shill (even though Cantor's an idiot...and the President is using it for political gain, just like every other politician in the country).

[Magox]

You know how you know when you see a lemming? When they start parroting talking points such as "hostage". And I don't just hammer you left leaning loonies for this but also the far right neanderthal righties.

 

These Tea party guys came in on a mandate, and that specific mandate had nothing to do with the military, social issues or some of the other typical GOP sticking points.

 

They promised their constituents that they would not only battle the lefties but the GOP as well when it came to the U.S debt and taxes. That is what they ran on and they are delivering on their promise. They didn't come in to continue the status quo, and for that you have to give them credit.

 

I don't expect you loons to understand that, your views are so myopically narrow that you can't even begin to fathom their mandate. Listen, we can all have a difference of opinions on what the "solution" to our problem's are, and that's fair game, there is an honest difference between ideologies, but to demagogue and cheapen the conversation with such inflammatory comments doesn't advance the discussion whatsoever. Unfortunately that's politics, so I understand although I don't agree with why politicians and the tv/radio personality pundits forward this agenda, but it's the idiots that fall for it that give some of us a chuckle.

 

 

Having said all that, it is quite obvious that they are still a bunch of political neophytes, which is something that I touched on months ago, and without a doubt it would behoove them to understand the political realities that surrounds them. If they would of not agreed to Boehner's "deal" they would of shared the economies woes along with Obama, giving the Dem's an out on their terrible handling's of the economy.

 

Judging by Wall Street today they are taking a cautious approach to this. Nothing has passed yet and the Right Wing hate machine hasn't kicked in yet to pressure these Representatives to do their duty to crash this economy. So we are still in wait and see approach

Today's market movement has little to do with the "agreement" but much more so on the atrocious ISM Manufacturing data that almost showed a contraction, which would be the worst report we've seen in over two years. Combine this with all the weak data that has been coming out and the terrible GDP numbers (which I totally got wrong on months ago), investors and economists are starting to rethink this notion of this just being a "soft patch" in the economy.

 

It's not just happening here either, but throughout Europe as well. Something that needs to be monitored closely.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Magox

[Peace]

Today's market movement has little to do with the "agreement" but much more so on the atrocious ISM Manufacturing data that almost showed a contraction, which would be the worst report we've seen in over two years. Combine this with all the weak data that has been coming out and the terrible GDP numbers (which I totally got wrong on months ago), investors and economists are starting to rethink this notion of this just being a "soft patch" in the economy.

 

It's not just happening here either, but throughout Europe as well. Something that needs to be monitored closely.

 

Yup. It won't be long before it's time to admit this is a second, or basically, still, a recession. The elected folk have a tough task on the debt because the economy won't dig this country out of the debt mess. They are going to have to cut and cut and cut and cut.

 

Note: This "deal" is nada in terms of immediate impact. Most of the cutting is going to be negotiated over a span of years and enacted years after that. It's a totally pussified deal that will probably do little to address the debt. The politicians (both sides) won with this deal--by giving a lot of lip service to get the debt limit raised...almost no substance. Credit none of them.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Peace

[Adam]

Yup. It won't be long before it's time to admit this is a second, or basically, still, a recession. The elected folk have a tough task on the debt because the economy won't dig this country out of the debt mess. They are going to have to cut and cut and cut and cut.

 

Note: This "deal" is nada in terms of immediate impact. Most of the cutting is going to be negotiated over a span of years and enacted years after that. It's a totally pussified deal that will probably do little to address the debt. The politicians (both sides) won with this deal--by giving a lot of lip service to get the debt limit raised...almost no substance. Credit none of them.

I disagree. There will be cuts and the impact on the deficit won't be immediate, but the idiot American people will be forced to relearn the art of patience. Getting rid of this deficit will take a lot of time. If we do to much to soon, the economy will tank.

 

With in a year or two, we will need to eliminate the Bush-Era tax cuts, which are nothing more than spending. Like it or not, the defense spending is going to have to be cut and made a lot more efficient. I don't have inside knowledge, but my guess is that if the inefficiencies and redundancies were eliminated, that budget would nearly be halved.

 

As angry as I am for all of the stupidity shown by our Congressional leaders over the past few weeks, I can get past all of it except trying to tie the debt limit to guaranteeing an amendment. That is a despicable act and inexcusable.

[Peace]

I disagree. There will be cuts and the impact on the deficit won't be immediate, but the idiot American people will be forced to relearn the art of patience. Getting rid of this deficit will take a lot of time. If we do to much to soon, the economy will tank.

 

With in a year or two, we will need to eliminate the Bush-Era tax cuts, which are nothing more than spending. Like it or not, the defense spending is going to have to be cut and made a lot more efficient. I don't have inside knowledge, but my guess is that if the inefficiencies and redundancies were eliminated, that budget would nearly be halved.

 

As angry as I am for all of the stupidity shown by our Congressional leaders over the past few weeks, I can get past all of it except trying to tie the debt limit to guaranteeing an amendment. That is a despicable act and inexcusable.

 

I do not think we can make the cut immediately. That would spiral a teetering economy. But by waiting until the last second, we (Americans) see almost no specific cuts--it's mostly going to get done sometime in the future. That is not reassuring when we all know how easily Washington can put things off. Plus, of course by waiting until the 12th hour, the odds of a credit downgrade are pretty high.

 

I tend to agree with Pawlenty (though he of course ignores his own party's missteps):

 

“This deal is nothing to celebrate. Only in Washington would the political class think it’s a victory when the government narrowly avoids default, agrees to go further into debt, and does little to reform a spending system that cannot be sustained by our children and grandchildren. While no further evidence was needed, this entire debt ceiling fiasco demonstrates that President Obama must be replaced.”

[Gary M]

As angry as I am for all of the stupidity shown by our Congressional leaders over the past few weeks, I can get past all of it except trying to tie the debt limit to guaranteeing an amendment. That is a despicable act and inexcusable.

 

Why, you and I both know it will never happen!!!

[Magox]

Front loading the cuts would not be the most prudent idea. It's become pretty obvious to me that the markets will give leeway to the US government if they enact a long-term debt solution as opposed to the Cut now cut A lot mentality. Listen, I'm about as a big deficit hawk is there is, but you have to have a growing economy if you want to meaningfully cut the US debt.

 

So I am not opposed to the idea of back loading the cuts, where my skepticism lies is that when it comes time to enact the meaningful cuts, politicians will kick the proverbial can down the road, citing that cuts would threaten the recovery. Let me say this, we are not recovering well at this point, and with the president we have in there today, you can pretty much bank on this muted "recovery" to continue longer than if you had someone who would undo all these terrible pieces of legislation and new regulations that have popped up over the past couple years.

 

This is a delicate issue, there need to be cuts, but right now you have to be very careful in what it is and how it is that execute it. Whether you guys like it or not, when you take money out of the economy, it does slow it down, which is a necessary evil that needs to occur, it's just how you do it that needs to be examined.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Magox