For the "Ralph Is Cheap" Crowd

[Jeffery Lester]

You can debate the issue of how much this organization spends if you want to. That isn't very telling. An organization's spread sheet doesn't tell how well or poorly a franchise is being run. The measuring stick is the team's record. The history of the Bills is mostly about losing. It's historical record is 358-406-8. In a system designed for parity the Bills haven't made the playoffs since 1999. Last year our rankings on defense and offense were near the bottom. It's gotten so depressingly bad that now some hometown zealots are referring to our almost wins as successes. How much more lame can you get?

 

The issue is not about money; it is about how you spend money. Is there a serious person other than your standard team flacks willing to say that this clown franchise is smartly managed? Is there anyone willing to say that our front office has drafted well over the past decade or so? Is there anyone willing to say that the owner has assembled a premier front office over the past decade or so?

 

The people who should be the most upset are those who claim that the baron owner spends money at a competitive rate. If that truly is the case then how much value has he gotten out of his unfocused expenditures?

 

Whether Ralph is cheap or not, who cares? The real issue is whether he is a competent owner. Anyone who doesn't know what the answer is should go back and look at the historical record.

Just go buy a freakin Patriots jersey. So sick of the negative fans on this board. It almost makes it not worth visiting. The board shoulb be broke up into fans, those that route for the Bills and those that root in the mud.

[billsfreak]

Just go buy a freakin Patriots jersey. So sick of the negative fans on this board. It almost makes it not worth visiting. The board shoulb be broke up into fans, those that route for the Bills and those that root in the mud.

News Flash Mr. Now It All! There is a big difference between a negative fan and a die hard fan who is tired of the losing, penny pinching, piss poor management, coaching carousel and being part of the longest playoff drought in the NFL. And hey, us unhappy Bills fans still Root for the Bills, as much as you fans with horse blinders on that are satisfied with your team if it is still within 3 touchdowns in the 3rd quarter, so your theory about dividing people up is lame.

[Orton's Arm]

Just go buy a freakin Patriots jersey. So sick of the negative fans on this board. It almost makes it not worth visiting. The board shoulb be broke up into fans, those that route for the Bills and those that root in the mud.

I strongly disagree with your criticism of JohnC's post. Each of the points he made are valid. The Bills have not been to the playoffs since the '90s. This team has not drafted well for at least the last decade. Over the past five or six years prior to Nix, our free agent signings were generally not any good.

 

Maybe Nix will turn things around. While some of his free agent signings were a disaster (such as Cornell Green), some others were more reasonable (such as some of his defensive acquisitions). And while the Spiller pick seems disappointing thus far, some of the other guys he found in that draft seem to show promise.

 

Then again, I felt optimistic about the early days of TD, on the theory that he was a proven, disciplined GM who'd fix Butler's salary cap mess. I also felt optimism when Marv was first hired, on the (badly mistaken) theory that he couldn't be any worse than TD.

 

But there's at least one difference between Buddy and his last few predecessors. When TD came to town, he inherited a team with a good defense, good defensive scheme, and with a lousy, predictable, uncreative offense. The obvious solution would have been to hire a head coach with an offensive background--a guy who'd fix the offense while leaving the defensive system intact. Instead, all four final candidates for that head coaching position were coaches with defensive backgrounds. Once he was hired, Gregg did nothing to fix the offense, and replaced our (excellent, Wade Phillips) 3-4 defensive scheme with his significantly inferior, "break but don't bend" 4-3 scheme. Similarly, the Mike Mularkey and Jauron hirings did little or nothing to fix our coaching problems on either side of the ball.

 

In contrast, the Gailey hire looks great thus far. Especially on offense, the Bills have been creative, and their schemes have clearly allowed them to get the most possible use out of the player talent they have. Arguably Nix's single most important decision--which head coach to hire--looks to be a huge success. Hopefully he can follow that up with a successful 2011 draft!

[JohnC]

News Flash Mr. Now It All! There is a big difference between a negative fan and a die hard fan who is tired of the losing, penny pinching, piss poor management, coaching carousel and being part of the longest playoff drought in the NFL. And hey, us unhappy Bills fans still Root for the Bills, as much as you fans with horse blinders on that are satisfied with your team if it is still within 3 touchdowns in the 3rd quarter, so your theory about dividing people up is lame.

 

As you so aptly described being a loyal fan doesn't mean you have to be a gullible fan.

 

I strongly disagree with your criticism of JohnC's post. Each of the points he made are valid. The Bills have not been to the playoffs since the '90s. This team has not drafted well for at least the last decade. Over the past five or six years prior to Nix, our free agent signings were generally not any good.

 

I appreciate your comments.

 

I didn't notice any points he disagreed with. Not liking what a person says doesn't address the issue of its accuracy.

[3rdand12]

Edwards Arm gave me a nice history lesson that i had not thought about at all, just recently becoming a true fan i hope. And obviously a new forum member.

Information like that helps me get on track with my perspective of "how did we get this way". i can understand how long time fans can be frustrated, and heck should be. But the best point made is, to me, that last year was very interesting and fun to watch mostly. Even with our record. I can say that i am really looking forward to next year. Because i agree that these two guys are tipping the boat back upright and have a destination in mind. I hope we make some good "great, even better" off season moves.

I think we are all fans and thats why we are here and sharing opinions But for me mostly, thanks for the educating me about the whole thing. Now i know what kind of turf we have who made it how much it cost and why we picked it its lifecycle and what the new stuff will be.

I really do not think Ralph is trying to balance his checkbook any more because he is nearing his expiration date. I would bet cash that he just wants to win. Ralph wont be cheap no more

Go Bills!

[Orton's Arm]

Edwards Arm gave me a nice history lesson that i had not thought about at all, just recently becoming a true fan i hope. And obviously a new forum member.

Information like that helps me get on track with my perspective of "how did we get this way". i can understand how long time fans can be frustrated, and heck should be. But the best point made is, to me, that last year was very interesting and fun to watch mostly. Even with our record. I can say that i am really looking forward to next year. Because i agree that these two guys are tipping the boat back upright and have a destination in mind. I hope we make some good "great, even better" off season moves.

I think we are all fans and thats why we are here and sharing opinions But for me mostly, thanks for the educating me about the whole thing. Now i know what kind of turf we have who made it how much it cost and why we picked it its lifecycle and what the new stuff will be.

I really do not think Ralph is trying to balance his checkbook any more because he is nearing his expiration date. I would bet cash that he just wants to win. Ralph wont be cheap no more

Go Bills!

Thanks for your compliments! Seeing as how you're a new fan, I may as well throw together a somewhat more complete history of this team than above.

 

Pre-Polian era (mid '80s and before): mostly lousy teams, but with some AFL championships won back in the '60.

Polian era ('mid '80s - early '90s): these were by far the best Bills teams since the AFL-NFL merger. And almost certainly the best Bills teams ever. Bill Polian, the general manager, found players at or near the Hall of Fame level at quarterback, RB, WR, several OL positions, RDE, and elsewhere. That Bills team had an almost unstoppable no huddle offense led by Jim Kelly (QB), Thurman Thomas (RB), Andre Reed (WR), and Kent Hull (Center). They also had a good defense, led by best-at-his-position-ever RDE Bruce Smith. That team went to--and lost--four consecutive Super Bowls. Unfortunately, the man who put all that together--Bill Polian--was fired. Depending on who you believe, he was fired due to a dispute with Ralph, or Ralph's daughter, or with Jeff Littman (a financial guy). Polian has refused to talk about it, so it's not clear which rumor (if any) is correct. After being fired, Bill Polian spent some time with the Carolina Panthers, before heading to the Indianapolis Colts. Polian was responsible for drafting Peyton Manning and for putting together the Colts team that won the Super Bowl a few years back.

 

Butler era: John Butler was not a good a GM as Polian. The offense in particular got older and worse under Butler's watch. Aging superstars on both sides of the ball were not replaced or were inadequately replaced. Nevertheless, Butler did enough good as GM that the Bills were often able to make the playoffs. Mostly that was on the strength of their defense, which was consistently one of the best in the league. That defense was better than the one the Bills had fielded during their Super Bowl glory years. It was very tough to run against that defense. Come to think of it, it was very tough to throw against that defense also! They used a 3-4 defense, with Ted Washington and Pat Williams as their NTs. (They rotated with each other to keep each other fresh.) For a while they had Bruce Smith as their RDE. But even after he left (during the declining years of his career), they were still able to get decent production from the RDE position through Marcellus Wiley. There was one year they had a really good OLB named Bryce Paup. He got 17.5 sacks that year, did a lot of other stuff very well, and was named defensive MVP! Unfortunately, he sustained a serious injury the next year, and was never the same player again.

 

On offense, there was a duel between two quarterbacks. The Bills had traded away a first round pick for Rob Johnson, who proved a good and accurate passer if placed under exactly the right circumstances. Unfortunately, he held the ball a long time and was lousy at sensing pressure in the pocket. The Bills had a lousy OL, so Rob Johnson set a new record for taking the most sacks per pass attempt. They also had Doug Flutie, who was mobile, good at avoiding pressure, and good at getting rid of the ball quickly. However, Flutie was aging, and was only good at throwing short passes. (In comparison with Johnson, who specialized in the deep and intermediate passing game.) During this era the Bills got into salary cap trouble in part because they were paying both those QBs like starters.

 

After the 2000 season, John Butler decided to leave the Bills and join the San Diego Chargers. He was convinced the Chargers would pay him more than the Bills would--so convinced, in fact, that he refused to negotiate at all with the Bills. Ralph got tired of Butler's refusal to negotiate, and fired him shortly before his contract expired. Butler's last draft for the Bills--the draft of 2000--contained nothing but busts.

 

Going into the 2001 season, Wilson hired Tom Donahoe (TD). TD's prior experience was with the Steelers, and he was regarded as a proven, highly credible GM. But while he was with the Bills, TD was short-sighted, over-valued the RB and DB positions at the expense of more critical needs, traded away a first round pick for someone else's aging starter at QB (Drew Bledsoe), and generally made a mess of the franchise. There were some reasonably good seasons during TD's era. But those good seasons were often the result of aging players TD had acquired as a quick-fix solution, and not because he'd built a solid core of talented younger players. TD's first hire as a defensive coach named Gregg Williams. Williams was familiar with the 4-3 defense, so he scrapped the 3-4 defensive scheme which had been so successful for the Bills in the late '90s, and implemented his own defense instead. The offense had been lousy during the late '90s, and continued to be lousy under Gregg.

 

TD fired Gregg after his third season, and replaced him with Mike Mularkey (formerly the Steelers' offensive coordinator). Mularkey did little to fix the Bills' offensive problems.

 

The Bills went 6-10 in 2005. Moreover, many or most of their chief contributors were clearly on the downsides of their careers. The failure of TD's regime had become manifest, and Ralph fired him. Marv Levy (who'd been the head coach of the Bills during the Polian era) was hired to be general manager (GM).

 

In 2006, Marv shocked the NFL and these boards by taking Donte Whitner, a SS, eighth overall. Most mock drafts projected Whitner to go later in the first round, or somewhere in the second. Whitner completely failed to live up to his lofty draft status. In fact, you could safely say that none of the players Marv chose during the first three rounds of the draft lived up to their draft positions. Most were outright busts, while a few (such as Lynch) were eventually traded for a very small fraction of their initial draft day value. (A fourth round pick--which is what we got for trading Lynch away--is worth only a very small percentage of the 12th overall pick we'd initially used to take him.) Marv's two years as GM contributed almost nothing to the long-term good of this team. Like John Butler and TD before him, Marv strongly overemphasized RBs and DBs in the draft, while neglecting the areas he should have been addressing. Marv's choice as head coach--Dick Jauron--proved a failure. He was overly cautious and tended to be vanilla in his schemes.

 

In 2008, the general manager duties were assumed by Russ Brandon, a business guy with no direct prior football experience. It's thought that Jauron (who was still the head coach) was allowed to exercise significant control on draft day. The Bills' first round pick in 2008 was used on McKelvin, a defensive back; which seems like something that would strongly appeal to Jauron. (Who as a player had himself been a defensive back. He later got into coaching by being a defensive backs coach.) The 2009 draft was also run by Jauron + Brandon, and the emphasis was once again on defense. However, the first round pick from that draft--Aaron Maybin--is a bust. Jauron was fired partway through the 2009 season.

 

After the 2009 season, Buddy Nix was hired to be GM. He selected Chan Gailey as his new head coach. NIx displeased a number of Bills fans by using the 9th overall pick on a running back. That seemed to echo the over-emphasis on RB we'd seen under previous failed Bills regimes. In the late '90s, for example, the Bills used a first round pick on Antowain Smith. That wasn't good enough for TD, who used a second round pick on Travis Henry (RB) in his very first draft. Then, just two years later, TD used a first round pick on another RB (Willis McGahee). In 2007 Marv had used a first round pick on Marshawn Lynch. Since you only have one first round pick a year, one second round pick a year, etc., and since you only need one good RB, Bills fans realized that far too many picks were being used on that position.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Edwards' Arm

[3rdand12]

That is the inside scoop, alright. i have been watching Buffalo since the Good ole days and went to couple games when Kelly was on the field. Then after the last super bowl loss i just drifted off and lost my interest.

But nowadays i am very interested again and hope to absorb all i am able. Last season i watched or listened to every game and expect the same when/if we get going this year, i am following every move i can read about. Thanks for filling in those long gaps in my knowledge.

Old in body, new to the forum and renewed Buffalo Fan. Thanks Edwards Arm, for taking your time to help me along!

[Bob in STL]

Well the offensive did get better at the towards end of the season, especially after Wood stepped in at center.

Must have something to do with the threat of Spiller! Well we will be better this year becuase we started out horrible and improved week by week.

I do not think Ralph is cheap but he is certainly no Snyder from Washington, who spends way lotsa money but sucks as bad as we have at times.

We will be better next year. C'mon .500%! go Bills

 

 

I did not see this. I certainly did not see the O-line play better with Wood at center. The last two games of the season, against division opponents, were atrocious and show how much work we have to do to compete.

 

I can recall that Chan called Wood out a little bit during the season and then after the season he gave him props. I think Wood can be an excellent center, just didn't see it last year. He played injured and he played next to a revolving door at RG.

 

Until we stop the run, pressure the passer and block better on offense we are destin for the bottom tier.

 

This draft cannot be wasted on luxury picks like Spiller. We need to build both sides of the trenches and we NFL caliber LBs. Despite Buddy's rhetoric, we need LBs. This years draft has plenty of DLs and LBs ... go get us some good ones Buddy.

 

That is the inside scoop, alright. i have been watching Buffalo since the Good ole days and went to couple games when Kelly was on the field. Then after the last super bowl loss i just drifted off and lost my interest.

But nowadays i am very interested again and hope to absorb all i am able. Last season i watched or listened to every game and expect the same when/if we get going this year, i am following every move i can read about. Thanks for filling in those long gaps in my knowledge.

Old in body, new to the forum and renewed Buffalo Fan. Thanks Edwards Arm, for taking your time to help me along!

 

 

Ah yes, the good old days --- 1963 thru 1965!

[8-8 Forever?]

Ralph isn't cheap. He just doesn't know what he is doing.

Edited March 10, 2011 by 8and8Forever

[Homey D. Clown]

Interesting how people think Ralph Wilson isn't cheap, when as I opened this thread, I had just watched a top 10 show on NFL network, and see, of all people Pete Gogolak and his kicking style as one of the most significant Game changing occurrences, and what does he say? (Paraphrasing of course) I was performing very well, and ask the Bills for a raise, they said NO, then the NY Giants offered me more money, and so I went"

 

All the players this team has lost over the course of 50 years is stunning, and yes, every team loses players, but this team seems to at a ridiculous rate. He is merely running the team like a business in the black, and keeping it from having a financial impact on his family once he departs, you can complain, or try to say otherwise, but those are the cold hard facts.

 

That's not to say he hasn't had his moments of spending, and in one case the team did very well, and in another case (TD era) they didn't, he is not about to go down that road again.

Edited March 10, 2011 by McKinleys Curse

[JohnC]

Thanks for your compliments! Seeing as how you're a new fan, I may as well throw together a somewhat more complete history of this team than above.

 

Pre-Polian era (mid '80s and before): mostly lousy teams, but with some AFL championships won back in the '60.

Polian era ('mid '80s - early '90s): these were by far the best Bills teams since the AFL-NFL merger. And almost certainly the best Bills teams ever. Bill Polian, the general manager, found players at or near the Hall of Fame level at quarterback, RB, WR, several OL positions, RDE, and elsewhere. That Bills team had an almost unstoppable no huddle offense led by Jim Kelly (QB), Thurman Thomas (RB), Andre Reed (WR), and Kent Hull (Center). They also had a good defense, led by best-at-his-position-ever RDE Bruce Smith. That team went to--and lost--four consecutive Super Bowls. Unfortunately, the man who put all that together--Bill Polian--was fired. Depending on who you believe, he was fired due to a dispute with Ralph, or Ralph's daughter, or with Jeff Littman (a financial guy). Polian has refused to talk about it, so it's not clear which rumor (if any) is correct. After being fired, Bill Polian spent some time with the Carolina Panthers, before heading to the Indianapolis Colts. Polian was responsible for drafting Peyton Manning and for putting together the Colts team that won the Super Bowl a few years back.

 

Butler era: John Butler was not a good a GM as Polian. The offense in particular got older and worse under Butler's watch. Aging superstars on both sides of the ball were not replaced or were inadequately replaced. Nevertheless, Butler did enough good as GM that the Bills were often able to make the playoffs. Mostly that was on the strength of their defense, which was consistently one of the best in the league. That defense was better than the one the Bills had fielded during their Super Bowl glory years. It was very tough to run against that defense. Come to think of it, it was very tough to throw against that defense also! They used a 3-4 defense, with Ted Washington and Pat Williams as their NTs. (They rotated with each other to keep each other fresh.) For a while they had Bruce Smith as their RDE. But even after he left (during the declining years of his career), they were still able to get decent production from the RDE position through Marcellus Wiley. There was one year they had a really good OLB named Bryce Paup. He got 17.5 sacks that year, did a lot of other stuff very well, and was named defensive MVP! Unfortunately, he sustained a serious injury the next year, and was never the same player again.

 

On offense, there was a duel between two quarterbacks. The Bills had traded away a first round pick for Rob Johnson, who proved a good and accurate passer if placed under exactly the right circumstances. Unfortunately, he held the ball a long time and was lousy at sensing pressure in the pocket. The Bills had a lousy OL, so Rob Johnson set a new record for taking the most sacks per pass attempt. They also had Doug Flutie, who was mobile, good at avoiding pressure, and good at getting rid of the ball quickly. However, Flutie was aging, and was only good at throwing short passes. (In comparison with Johnson, who specialized in the deep and intermediate passing game.) During this era the Bills got into salary cap trouble in part because they were paying both those QBs like starters.

 

After the 2000 season, John Butler decided to leave the Bills and join the San Diego Chargers. He was convinced the Chargers would pay him more than the Bills would--so convinced, in fact, that he refused to negotiate at all with the Bills. Ralph got tired of Butler's refusal to negotiate, and fired him shortly before his contract expired. Butler's last draft for the Bills--the draft of 2000--contained nothing but busts.

 

Going into the 2001 season, Wilson hired Tom Donahoe (TD). TD's prior experience was with the Steelers, and he was regarded as a proven, highly credible GM. But while he was with the Bills, TD was short-sighted, over-valued the RB and DB positions at the expense of more critical needs, traded away a first round pick for someone else's aging starter at QB (Drew Bledsoe), and generally made a mess of the franchise. There were some reasonably good seasons during TD's era. But those good seasons were often the result of aging players TD had acquired as a quick-fix solution, and not because he'd built a solid core of talented younger players. TD's first hire as a defensive coach named Gregg Williams. Williams was familiar with the 4-3 defense, so he scrapped the 3-4 defensive scheme which had been so successful for the Bills in the late '90s, and implemented his own defense instead. The offense had been lousy during the late '90s, and continued to be lousy under Gregg.

 

TD fired Gregg after his third season, and replaced him with Mike Mularkey (formerly the Steelers' offensive coordinator). Mularkey did little to fix the Bills' offensive problems.

 

The Bills went 6-10 in 2005. Moreover, many or most of their chief contributors were clearly on the downsides of their careers. The failure of TD's regime had become manifest, and Ralph fired him. Marv Levy (who'd been the head coach of the Bills during the Polian era) was hired to be general manager (GM).

 

In 2006, Marv shocked the NFL and these boards by taking Donte Whitner, a SS, eighth overall. Most mock drafts projected Whitner to go later in the first round, or somewhere in the second. Whitner completely failed to live up to his lofty draft status. In fact, you could safely say that none of the players Marv chose during the first three rounds of the draft lived up to their draft positions. Most were outright busts, while a few (such as Lynch) were eventually traded for a very small fraction of their initial draft day value. (A fourth round pick--which is what we got for trading Lynch away--is worth only a very small percentage of the 12th overall pick we'd initially used to take him.) Marv's two years as GM contributed almost nothing to the long-term good of this team. Like John Butler and TD before him, Marv strongly overemphasized RBs and DBs in the draft, while neglecting the areas he should have been addressing. Marv's choice as head coach--Dick Jauron--proved a failure. He was overly cautious and tended to be vanilla in his schemes.

 

In 2008, the general manager duties were assumed by Russ Brandon, a business guy with no direct prior football experience. It's thought that Jauron (who was still the head coach) was allowed to exercise significant control on draft day. The Bills' first round pick in 2008 was used on McKelvin, a defensive back; which seems like something that would strongly appeal to Jauron. (Who as a player had himself been a defensive back. He later got into coaching by being a defensive backs coach.) The 2009 draft was also run by Jauron + Brandon, and the emphasis was once again on defense. However, the first round pick from that draft--Aaron Maybin--is a bust. Jauron was fired partway through the 2009 season.

 

After the 2009 season, Buddy Nix was hired to be GM. He selected Chan Gailey as his new head coach. NIx displeased a number of Bills fans by using the 9th overall pick on a running back. That seemed to echo the over-emphasis on RB we'd seen under previous failed Bills regimes. In the late '90s, for example, the Bills used a first round pick on Antowain Smith. That wasn't good enough for TD, who used a second round pick on Travis Henry (RB) in his very first draft. Then, just two years later, TD used a first round pick on another RB (Willis McGahee). In 2007 Marv had used a first round pick on Marshawn Lynch. Since you only have one first round pick a year, one second round pick a year, etc., and since you only need one good RB, Bills fans realized that far too many picks were being used on that position.

 

A terrific recap of the history of the franchise. What is sad or amusing is the repeated same cycle of mistakes. The owner had within his own organization front office talent. For a variety of reasons they left. As you noted Bill Polian left and has had a sterling record since. Butler/A.J. Smith left for San Diego. For the past decade they have been one of the most consistently winning and entertaining teams in the league. Compare those records to how the Bills have performed over the past dozen years????

 

I have read a number of accounts as to why Butler left. When his contract was expiring the owner initially gave him a low-ball offer, claiming that Butler was not really a full GM with its accompanying responsibilities but merely a personnel person. Butler was very insulted at the low offer that wasn't competitive with other GMs. He felt that he should be paid in the same range of Peterson of the KC Chiefs who got substantially more. The owner eventually upped his salary offer to a competitive level. It was Butler who at the end was not responding to the owner's offers.

 

The other part of Butler's desire to leave was that he simply tired of dealing with Ralph. He was not an easy person to work for. The owner is the boss. If he wants to incessantly interfere then that is his prerogative, no matter how damaging his behavior is to the operation. Butler, at the end simply wanted out. From JB's standpoint the combination of a corrossive contract process and the oppressive work environment made it impossible for him to stay. Ralph is not a fool. He realized that JB was not going to sign a contract with him, no matter how much he offered. So he fired him the near end of the expiration of the contract. It was a moot point. Because Butler was going to leave.

[LabattBlue]

I know that there is no way to find this out, but I would love to know where the Bills rank in terms of spending in two categories...

 

1. Coaching staff

 

2. Front office staff related to football operations(not including Ralph's cost cutting cronies, Littman & Overdorf).

 

 

I would bet they wouldn't be in the top half of the league in either category.

[billsfreak]

Well the offensive did get better at the towards end of the season, especially after Wood stepped in at center. Must have something to do with the threat of Spiller!

Well we will be better this year becuase we started out horrible and improved week by week.

I do not think Ralph is cheap but he is certainly no Snyder from Washington, who spends way lotsa money but sucks as bad as we have at times.

We will be better next year. C'mon .500%! go Bills

I am not dissing Wood, as I like him and hope they keep him at center, but didn't he just play the last couple games there? Where the offense scored a grand total of 10 points?

[nucci]

While I usually don't bother blasting Ralph as I think he is a good person just doesn't run a good football operation. The 1974-1975 team was broken up due to Ralph not paying players. Ahmad Rashad, Earl Edwards, Pat Toomay and I'm sure I'm missing other guys who were not bigger names all left or were let go because the Bills wouldn't pay. Someone earlier mentioned Gogolak also. Overpaying a Dockery or Langston does not make up for breaking up good teams by letting top players leave.

[BillsVet]

The Bills seem more about the entertainment factor than most of their competitors. Winning and profitability are essential in any sports team, but some favor the latter in favor of the former. Buffalo is a stark example of that, both now and since Day 1.

 

The results are what they are: a team with 41 NFL seasons, 13 playoff appearances, and one man there since the beginning. He pushes away or actually fires his best leaders, interferes in personnel, and makes knee-jerk decisions that ultimately hurt the team.

[K-9]

I know that there is no way to find this out, but I would love to know where the Bills rank in terms of spending in two categories...

 

1. Coaching staff

 

2. Front office staff related to football operations(not including Ralph's cost cutting cronies, Littman & Overdorf).

 

 

I would bet they wouldn't be in the top half of the league in either category.

 

No doubt. Ralph has a history of only paying for "proven" coaching talent. Rauch, Saban II, Knox, Levy (after having success and re-signing) are examples of his willingness to pay coaches well in comparison to the rest of the league. But he'll never break the bank for a coach that hasn't been a winner. If Gailey has success RW won't have any problem keeping him.

 

After Polian became Executive of the Year, RW made him one of the best paid GMs. He did the same with Donahoe as well as giving him unprecedented title and control.

 

The Bills have also had players that were at or near the highest paid for their respective positions over the years.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited March 10, 2011 by K-9

[JohnC]

While I usually don't bother blasting Ralph as I think he is a good person just doesn't run a good football operation.

 

Concisely stated and to the point. Where I have some slight difference with you is that he has established a business model that he is comfortable with. The Pirates in MLB and the Clippers in the NBA have a similar model. The problem doesn't revolve around their original talent level so much as when the talent goes into their next contract they are often dispatched for a cheaper talent.

 

While the owner has gone churned through a lot of coaching and front office staff his main franchise financial advisors, Littman and Oberdorf, have been with him for quite a while. The owner is not being hoodwinked by anyone. The operation is being run the way he wants it to be run.

 

Despite what I have already said I do believe that under Nix he is for the most part going allow him to handle the football side of the business with less interference. That is a good sign. However, there is a lot of catching up to do to get to the point of respectability.

Edited March 10, 2011 by JohnC

[Beerball]

News Flash Mr. Now It All! There is a big difference between a negative fan and a die hard fan who is tired of the losing, penny pinching, piss poor management, coaching carousel and being part of the longest playoff drought in the NFL. And hey, us unhappy Bills fans still Root for the Bills, as much as you fans with horse blinders on that are satisfied with your team if it is still within 3 touchdowns in the 3rd quarter, so your theory about dividing people up is lame.

He did foot the bill for Newton and his agent at dinner the other night.

[3rdand12]

Nice, seeing the upsides Beerball.

I am leaving my questionable opinion about Wood and the last games and o line for another thread. Do not want to stray any further. sorry about that, folks.

[Rico]

For the "Ralph Is Great" Crowd,