Hplarrm Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/sports/article1889581/ '...Quinn, who will get around $14-million as a parting gift...' Its easy for me to say as this is someone else's money, but as a Sabre's fan, $14 million to get rid of Larry Quinn is money well spent and an investment into finally having a consistent winner here in Buffalo. Perhaps he is not primarily at fault for the perpetual one step forward two steps back Sabres antics of the past decade plus, but even if he was not the primary driver he seemed to have his hands placed on the throttle of the faltering machine by Golisano and the end of the Knox era. My sense is that whatever results both bad and good were a group effort and in the end all correctly get both credit and blame for the good/bad pieces and ultimate results produced. However, if one attempts to disagregate the pieces though the group bears total credit/blame for the total results, Quinn seemed to be the man most easily linked to the two steps back (wasn't he the driver in the silly lowspeed chase which signaled the total devolution of Sabres management when he brought Regier into town, wasn't he preening like a legend in his own mind when he had the temerity to pull on skates and an old Sabre uni to skate with the players which symbolized his falling out with HC Teddy Nolan who was really leading his team. From his lame apologetic public appearances when the scoreboard fell to him sucking up to Golisano and presiding over the mismanagement of the roster which saw him let both Briere and Drury walk away Quinn has simply been a disaster for the results produced by this team. $14 mill, Pegula would be well served paying twice that to get Quinn to simply not let the door hit him on the way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Flutie doesn't play on ST's. And his play at the end of the season is what got him benched. Had Johnson not left the field with the lead, I'd agree that it was a mistake to start him. And I talked about Pegula. Go back and read the damn posts. Whether the team wins by 1 point or 100, the result is still the same. Ralph got greedy and saw that Johnson had a great game against the Colts in the last game of the year (see the coming off the bench comment), plus Ralph gave Johnson a $25 million dollar contract, gave up a 1st round (plus a couple of other picks to the Jags) for Johnson, so Ralph wanted him in there. The 2000 Ravens won the Superbowl with Trent 'freakin' Dilfer, a career backup that bounced around the league more times than Pam Anderson bounced around guys. I looked back at your damn posts and saw you only talked about Pegula's money in Page 1, Page 2 was nothing but the Titans game. Guess you're more concerned about past miseries than possible future championships? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Whether the team wins by 1 point or 100, the result is still the same. Ralph got greedy and saw that Johnson had a great game against the Colts in the last game of the year (see the coming off the bench comment), plus Ralph gave Johnson a $25 million dollar contract, gave up a 1st round (plus a couple of other picks to the Jags) for Johnson, so Ralph wanted him in there. The 2000 Ravens won the Superbowl with Trent 'freakin' Dilfer, a career backup that bounced around the league more times than Pam Anderson bounced around guys. I looked back at your damn posts and saw you only talked about Pegula's money in Page 1, Page 2 was nothing but the Titans game. Guess you're more concerned about past miseries than possible future championships? My sense is that Mr. Ralph exercised owners right to meddle when he made a handshake deal with Jimbo to reward him in his nest contract when he hit FA. Ralph flat out made a bad football judgment about how much Kelly had left when it turned out there was no next contract and he was out of football, It was a bad football move since even this armchair GM could see that Jimbo was done soon as an effective player. The Bills waited at least one year too long before they began to find/train a replacement for Jimbo and thus they reached by at least a round to get TC and then rushed him to start when he still had happy feet, Mr. Ralph has presided over a series of QB miscues which either he did directly (such as the handshake deal or even if he hired someone directly responsible (as when he set Donahoe loose) he still is responsible (he did not extend Bledsoe TD did but he still legitimately bears the blame as he hired TD. This leads to another series of mismanagements when he had toxic relationships with GMs Polian, Butler, and TD. Once is an incident, twice may be a coincidence, but three times may well be a trend. Given the toxic relationships he also had with Wade and Mularkey, it seems pretty clear Mr. Ralph is a major part of the problem here. He deserves credit where credit is due for keeping the Bills here when there was clearly more money to be made by moving. However, right along with this credit comes blame. One may falsely chose to blame Marv, Jauron, TD or whomever for failing to make the playoffs for over a decade, but these theories are simply wrong as none of these men were here for the entire decade plus of failure. Mr. Ralph is the common denominator for all failures, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 My sense is that Mr. Ralph exercised owners right to meddle when he made a handshake deal with Jimbo to reward him in his nest contract when he hit FA. Ralph flat out made a bad football judgment about how much Kelly had left when it turned out there was no next contract and he was out of football, It was a bad football move since even this armchair GM could see that Jimbo was done soon as an effective player. The Bills waited at least one year too long before they began to find/train a replacement for Jimbo and thus they reached by at least a round to get TC and then rushed him to start when he still had happy feet, Mr. Ralph has presided over a series of QB miscues which either he did directly (such as the handshake deal or even if he hired someone directly responsible (as when he set Donahoe loose) he still is responsible (he did not extend Bledsoe TD did but he still legitimately bears the blame as he hired TD. This leads to another series of mismanagements when he had toxic relationships with GMs Polian, Butler, and TD. Once is an incident, twice may be a coincidence, but three times may well be a trend. Given the toxic relationships he also had with Wade and Mularkey, it seems pretty clear Mr. Ralph is a major part of the problem here. He deserves credit where credit is due for keeping the Bills here when there was clearly more money to be made by moving. However, right along with this credit comes blame. One may falsely chose to blame Marv, Jauron, TD or whomever for failing to make the playoffs for over a decade, but these theories are simply wrong as none of these men were here for the entire decade plus of failure. Mr. Ralph is the common denominator for all failures, I agree with this 100% I've always felt Ralph was a meddling owner. I'd just wish Ralph would put in a succession plan already and name a new owner or sell the team to an owner that is serious about winning a championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seq004 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Buffalo now has one good owner, now one to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Definitely great news for Sabres fans! Many have said that Pegula wants to win Stanley Cups (plural), Buffalo and it's fans across the country definitely deserve that, especially after 4 Superbowl losses, No Goal, The Forward Lateral and 11 years and counting of the Bills missing the playoffs. Wish he was here when we lost Chris Drurry, Danny Briere, Dainius Zubrus and Marty Biron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Wish he was here when we lost Chris Drurry, Danny Briere, Dainius Zubrus and Marty Biron. The Sabres "lost Biron"? He "lost " his job to Ryan Miller (NHL's best goalie) and is now on his 4th team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills44 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 The Sabres "lost Biron"? He "lost " his job to Ryan Miller (NHL's best goalie) and is now on his 4th team. yeah, I mean, it's not like he would have been an upgrade over Thibault or Lalime.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born to Run Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 If he is buying the Sabres and related companies does this include WGR? We all know that Quinn owns them so are they part of the sale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) It will only take a short amount of time for him to figure out how SCREWED he will be when the State of NY get's into his business , why do you think Gollisano wanted to get rid of the team ?? After trying to make financial sense to the talking heads in NY and realizing it was a losing battle he sold his house and got out & now the team . NY state will always be my home but the gov't there has ruined the place !!!!!!! That's why most business is leaving along with the people , sad to say but i'm just sayin !!! Edited February 2, 2011 by T master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 It will only take a short amount of time for him to figure out how SCREWED he will be when the State of NY get's into his business , why do you think Gollisano wanted to get rid of the team ?? After trying to make financial sense to the talking heads in NY and realizing it was a losing battle he sold his house and got out & now the team . NY state will always be my home but the gov't there has ruined the place !!!!!!! That's why most business is leaving along with the people , sad to say but i'm just sayin !!! Pegula lives in Pennsylvania. So he won't have to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 After reading this article, Pegula sounds like a God-send, just hope he has enough money with his new ventures to maintain himself and make the Sabres winners. Would love for him to buy the Bill also, anyone with who is self less, good with people and only interested in winning and not profit is exactly what the Bills need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richNjoisy Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 After reading this article, Pegula sounds like a God-send, just hope he has enough money with his new ventures to maintain himself and make the Sabres winners. Would love for him to buy the Bill also, anyone with who is self less, good with people and only interested in winning and not profit is exactly what the Bills need. I do not know the link, but there were even BETTER articles on Pegula written about a month ago. What I really loved was where he was describing his love for the Sabres (and the Bills, too, how he had season tickets for years, and went on to how, if HE owned the team, his goal would be to win CUPS (plural). made me woozy thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 It will only take a short amount of time for him to figure out how SCREWED he will be when the State of NY get's into his business , why do you think Gollisano wanted to get rid of the team ?? After trying to make financial sense to the talking heads in NY and realizing it was a losing battle he sold his house and got out & now the team . NY state will always be my home but the gov't there has ruined the place !!!!!!! That's why most business is leaving along with the people , sad to say but i'm just sayin !!! If Pegula is not smart enough to run circles around NYS government regulations and regulators then he is not much of a smart businessman. Think about what you are saying. If NY is such an impossible place to be a businessman and do business would there be any businessmen operating here? Have you ever heard of this little place called Wall Street, Believe me the folks in charge and actually well down the food chain of a wide variety of brokerage houses and related businesses have more than enough wealth that they can live anywhere and in fact with the internet, the fact that the big companies are multinationals which can have their central offices anywhere, and the speed of modern travel they could be just about anywhere. Yet, with the exception of a few of their folks who have their main residence in the tony climes of CT suburbs like Darien a big chunk of these folks live in the city or in NYS suburbs like Riverdell. Get a clue bud. Life is dictated by the Golden Rule. He who has the gold rules! There is a lot of gold that lives in NYS (and even here in WNY which due to its small population easily ranks in the upper reaches of per capita population listed in social register. One of the big games is to whine and complain about the nasty regulations on business and then laugh all the way to the bank when you sucker Tea Party folks into doing the whining for you and you can undercut regulations that actually do get in your way (while wealthy businesses are happy to support regulations which act as a barrier to smaller businesses joining the fray and undercut big businesses. Feel free to go live in Cuba or some place they tell you where to live. Its the US of A bud and if you do not like NYS you are free to move to AZ or someplsce (unless you need the state to help you get a transplant in which case you are dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Best news ever for Buffalo! We'll finally get someone who has the means to get the TOOLS to FINISH the JOB. The great thing is... 1. He'll be the 2nd richest owner in the NHL 2. He wants to win Stanley Cup(s) 3. He'll cut the dead weight from the Sabres 4. He'll make sure this team is in the Playoffs every season!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Even at $189 Million Terry Pegula bought the Sabres with just the interest off his $3+ Billion fortune. He can certainly afford the Bills but he'd have to cut into his principal. PTR The situation with the Bills might be one where Pegula could be the majority owner backed with funding from other minority owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 yeah, I mean, it's not like he would have been an upgrade over Thibault or Lalime.... Pegula mentioned how we screwed up last season, I don't have the article to back it up. But from what I heard, He was upset we let Tallinder and Lydman walk, and basically Inaction on Managements part to upgrade the team in the offseason. He is a fan and passionate about bringing us a Cup. That may bring back some Ex-Sabres if he feels their worth bringing back. I'd personally love to Bring back Biron, Dumont and Briere. Yeah I know. The Latter 2 are probably a Pipe Dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 The Sabres "lost Biron"? He "lost " his job to Ryan Miller (NHL's best goalie) and is now on his 4th team. Not to mention that the only reason they even had Zubrus in the first place was because they traded Biron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 From what I have read this is the type of guy you want owning your team. Has the money, wants to win - the only ones who screw this up are the guys who think they know the sport like Snyder or Jones in the NFL or Cuban in the NBA as examples. As a Sabres fan it what we have been waiting for. What I don't get is the call to get rid of Ruff- there is a reason the Canadian Olympic team put him on the staff and it's not because he's a bad coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHFO Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 From what I have read this is the type of guy you want owning your team. Has the money, wants to win - the only ones who screw this up are the guys who think they know the sport like Snyder or Jones in the NFL or Cuban in the NBA as examples. As a Sabres fan it what we have been waiting for. What I don't get is the call to get rid of Ruff- there is a reason the Canadian Olympic team put him on the staff and it's not because he's a bad coach. Cuban shouldn't be compared to those two, he's a much better owner. Pegula reminds me of Cuban and I hope he spends just like him. Dallas has one of the best teams in the NBA every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike oxhurtz Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) Here are two good recent articles about the Sabres. Seems like with the sale of the team taking place, a lot of stuff is starting surface: http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sabres-nhl/article330374.ece http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/columns/bucky-gleason/article330388.ece "It was Regier, I'm told, who in the days after Chris Drury left town after the Sabres reneged on a verbal agreement, and Daniel Briere was kicked to the curb even though he wasn't asking for a raise, worried most about people viewing him as a dishonest man." It baffles me that Sabres fans boo Drury & Briere whenever they come back to play at the HSBC arena, especially when they wanted to stay in Buffalo and were shown the door by Regier & Co. I don't blame Ruff for turning down a contract extension this past year when Sabres management keeps letting good quality players go and expects him to work miracles by recycling new players. Edited February 2, 2011 by mike oxhurtz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Cuban shouldn't be compared to those two, he's a much better owner. Pegula reminds me of Cuban and I hope he spends just like him. Dallas has one of the best teams in the NBA every year. I'm always confused when people say that Pegula reminds them of so and so. He hasn't said a single word publicly about this team yet, how can we be drawing these conclusions? Maybe he will end up being that type of owner, but we know nothing yet. People are only seeing what they want to see. People were absolutely glowing over Golisano when he took over too. Granted, the team was coming out of bankruptcy and any purchase was going to be welcomed with open arms, but the opinion on him sure as hell has changed, hasn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richNjoisy Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 From what I have read this is the type of guy you want owning your team. Has the money, wants to win - the only ones who screw this up are the guys who think they know the sport like Snyder or Jones in the NFL or Cuban in the NBA as examples. As a Sabres fan it what we have been waiting for. What I don't get is the call to get rid of Ruff- there is a reason the Canadian Olympic team put him on the staff and it's not because he's a bad coach. Generally, I agree. One COULD ask why he has not taken them to a Cup in his tenure however. The obvious reply is, "how often has he been given the weapons"? So, I would like to see him be given a chance to lead a team with a very good squad (at least 2 or 3 major stars), along with decent defensemen. Here's hoping...... I'm always confused when people say that Pegula reminds them of so and so. He hasn't said a single word publicly about this team yet, how can we be drawing these conclusions? Maybe he will end up being that type of owner, but we know nothing yet. People are only seeing what they want to see. People were absolutely glowing over Golisano when he took over too. Granted, the team was coming out of bankruptcy and any purchase was going to be welcomed with open arms, but the opinion on him sure as hell has changed, hasn't it? Actually, I think he HAS spoken about the team - how it has been managed in particular. Most of those quotes, I believe, came out in early December when the rumors first floated about him possibly purchasing the team. I don't think Golisano ever made comments about spending money to win a Cup (and in the case of Pegula I KNOW he said "Cups"). Golisano spoke mostly about his determination to keep the team in Buffalo which was met with well to say the least!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Actually, I think he HAS spoken about the team - how it has been managed in particular. Most of those quotes, I believe, came out in early December when the rumors first floated about him possibly purchasing the team. I don't think Golisano ever made comments about spending money to win a Cup (and in the case of Pegula I KNOW he said "Cups"). Golisano spoke mostly about his determination to keep the team in Buffalo which was met with well to say the least!! Were there ever actually any direct quotes or just a paraphrasing of a conversation that was reported to have happened? I don't remember ever actually seeing anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richNjoisy Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Were there ever actually any direct quotes or just a paraphrasing of a conversation that was reported to have happened? I don't remember ever actually seeing anything. I can only find the paraphrases as of this afternoon so maybe that was all I ever saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGimp Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 This guy better come in a clean that house big time... so many useless people from management to probably a quarter of the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I can only find the paraphrases as of this afternoon so maybe that was all I ever saw. It seems like every story mentions how he's been keeping quiet about this whole thing right from the start. It really makes you wonder about whether or not that conversation ever really happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 http://www.wgr550.com/sabrespace/9122264 'Golisano revealed a surprise during his opening statement that a prospective buyer offered the Sabres $70 million more than Terry Pegula's purchase price of $175 million and $14 million in liabilities. However, the team turned down the offer as the buyer demanded that the team would be allowed to move away from Buffalo.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I'm looking forward to this. My opinion of Golisano is not so rosy lately. Everyone keeps harping on the 'thank you for keeping the Sabres in Buffalo rant', but 1.) let's be honest- Golisano is a businessman who no longer even lives in the over-taxed, Nanny State that is NY. He is a BUSINESSMAN first. I don't buy the bleeding heart routine. He did not buy the Sabres for charity's sake. He, after seeing the housing bubble burst and how his tenure has gone- is similar IMO to the slime that helped create the housing crises by buying more than they can afford with the hopes of flipping for a profit. 2.) Bettman repeatedly stated during the time that the Sabres would not be leaving Buffalo during bankruptcy. I think that it has less to do with Golisano and more to do with the NHL and Bettman as underwriters that kept the Sabres in Buffalo. That being said, we can then look at the Drury, Campbell, and Briere fiasco's and IMO were nothing more than penny pinching. So much lip service from Darcy over "keeping your core", and for the past 3 seasons we have been lamenting and trying to replace all 3 of them to no avail w/bargain basement clones. I think that in the beginning, Golisano ok'd the "home improvement", paid for the renovations of the kitchen and bathrooms (because these increase the value of the franchise) to increase the curb appeal of the club to prospective buyers. In hockey terms: Golisano and Quinn gave Regier the ok to get Drury and Briere, but then proceeded to not pay for performance when the bill came due. Once the curb appeal improved and the value increased, he stopped investing in the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills44 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 http://www.wgr550.com/sabrespace/9122264 'Golisano revealed a surprise during his opening statement that a prospective buyer offered the Sabres $70 million more than Terry Pegula's purchase price of $175 million and $14 million in liabilities. However, the team turned down the offer as the buyer demanded that the team would be allowed to move away from Buffalo.' who knows if the Board of Governors would've approved that sale, but I appreciate the fact that Golisano didn't let it get to that point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I'm looking forward to this. My opinion of Golisano is not so rosy lately. Everyone keeps harping on the 'thank you for keeping the Sabres in Buffalo rant', but 1.) let's be honest- Golisano is a businessman who no longer even lives in the over-taxed, Nanny State that is NY. He is a BUSINESSMAN first. I don't buy the bleeding heart routine. He did not buy the Sabres for charity's sake. He, after seeing the housing bubble burst and how his tenure has gone- is similar IMO to the slime that helped create the housing crises by buying more than they can afford with the hopes of flipping for a profit. 2.) Bettman repeatedly stated during the time that the Sabres would not be leaving Buffalo during bankruptcy. I think that it has less to do with Golisano and more to do with the NHL and Bettman as underwriters that kept the Sabres in Buffalo. That being said, we can then look at the Drury, Campbell, and Briere fiasco's and IMO were nothing more than penny pinching. So much lip service from Darcy over "keeping your core", and for the past 3 seasons we have been lamenting and trying to replace all 3 of them to no avail w/bargain basement clones. I think that in the beginning, Golisano ok'd the "home improvement", paid for the renovations of the kitchen and bathrooms (because these increase the value of the franchise) to increase the curb appeal of the club to prospective buyers. In hockey terms: Golisano and Quinn gave Regier the ok to get Drury and Briere, but then proceeded to not pay for performance when the bill came due. Once the curb appeal improved and the value increased, he stopped investing in the club. See the post above yours. Apparently there was someone willing to pay $70M (IOW 40% more) but Golisano turned it down because he/she/they was going to move the team. And I think that Golisano lost interest because he was never really a fan of the team to begin with, and realized that it was too hard to make a profit with them. Pegula will probably take losses, but he'll do it because he's a fan first and foremost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 And I think that Golisano lost interest because he was never really a fan of the team to begin with, and realized that it was too hard to make a profit with them. Pegula will probably take losses, but he'll do it because he's a fan first and foremost. Everyone has a breaking point. If he does wind up taking loses, what will be the limit to what he is willing to deal with? Everyone wants to paint this giant rosy picture right now, and I don't blame them, but I want to see how things look 5-10 years down the road. Only time will tell, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACor58 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 who knows if the Board of Governors would've approved that sale, but I appreciate the fact that Golisano didn't let it get to that point there is also a clause in the purchase agreement making it impossible for the Sabres to be moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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