The Senator Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Gabbert...grounded... 2011 NFL Combine: Blaine Gabbert Won't Throw Until Missouri Pro Day Gabbert Gabbert Gabbert... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Gabbert...grounded... 2011 NFL Combine: Blaine Gabbert Won't Throw Until Missouri Pro Day Gabbert Gabbert Gabbert... On the other hand, after indicating that he wouldn't throw, Christian Ponder has made the decision to throw. Per PFT (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/22/the-latest-on-quarterbacks-combine-intentions/): Expected to throw at Combine: Newton, per himself. Kaepernick, per PFT. Locker, per himself. Mallett, per SI.com. Dalton, per FOX Sports’ Adam Caplan. Stanzi, also per Caplan. Not expected to throw at Combine: Gabbert, per USA Today. Ponder, per himself. UPDATE (9:20 p.m. Tuesday): Ponder has decided to throw in Indy, after all. The Tuscaloosa News reports that Alabama quarterback Greg McElroy will not throw at the Combine and may even miss his Pro Day due to two fractures in his right hand. The injury occurred during January’s Senior Bowl game. Other QBs invited to Combine: Ryan Colburn (Fresno State), Pat Devlin (Delaware), Nate Enderle (Idaho), Jerrod Johnson (Texas A&M), Josh Portis (California, PA), Tyrod Taylor (Virginia Tech), Scott Tolzien (Wisconsin), Jeff Van Camp (Florida Atlantic), T.J. Yates (North Carolina). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 On the other hand, after indicating that he wouldn't throw, Christian Ponder has made the decision to throw. Per PFT (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/22/the-latest-on-quarterbacks-combine-intentions/): Expected to throw at Combine: Newton, per himself. Kaepernick, per PFT. Locker, per himself. Mallett, per SI.com. Dalton, per FOX Sports’ Adam Caplan. Stanzi, also per Caplan. Not expected to throw at Combine: Gabbert, per USA Today. Ponder, per himself. UPDATE (9:20 p.m. Tuesday): Ponder has decided to throw in Indy, after all. The Tuscaloosa News reports that Alabama quarterback Greg McElroy will not throw at the Combine and may even miss his Pro Day due to two fractures in his right hand. The injury occurred during January’s Senior Bowl game. Other QBs invited to Combine: Ryan Colburn (Fresno State), Pat Devlin (Delaware), Nate Enderle (Idaho), Jerrod Johnson (Texas A&M), Josh Portis (California, PA), Tyrod Taylor (Virginia Tech), Scott Tolzien (Wisconsin), Jeff Van Camp (Florida Atlantic), T.J. Yates (North Carolina). Interestingly... Most top-end quarterbacks in recent years have taken a pass on passing at the Combine. Sam Bradford, Matthew Stafford and Matt Ryan, to name three, all waited for their pro days, choosing to throw to familiar receivers instead of the masses at the Combine. On the other hand, Mark Sanchez, Joe Flacco and Jay Cutler all chose to throw at the Combine -- and none of them wound up with any reason to regret it. (Link - Sporting News) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimp Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 1) I disagree with you and Mad Dog69 and agree with ajzepp. 2) Get a life dude. You're not a pro scout. 3) You obviously don't know what you're watching. He has happy feet. First read, balls out. If not he runs. He scrambles around looking to run and not to throw. If he does throw, he just chucks it downfield. Those kinda QB's are the kind of QB's that won't cut it in the NFL. When did Vick start getting better? When he stopped runnig around like an idiot and start making throws. Decision making: Newton rarely put his receivers in bad position and didn't throw the ball a lot into double coverage. He just needs to get faster making decisions in the passing game. Comes out of Gus Malzahn's spread option where he doesn't have to make multiple reads. Doesn't anticipate a receiver's route that well. Field vision: Here is where Newton is going to need the work. A lot of Auburn's passes came on receivers running double moves and deep crosses. They're routes where receivers get themselves open and don't necessarily have to rely on the quarterback fitting the ball into a tight window. In addition, a lot of Newton's passes come on the first read. When it's not there, the offense called for him to pull the ball and run. Since teams stacked the box to defend Auburn against the run, Newton didn't see a lot of complex coverages. He did early against Oregon in the BCS National Championship game and got into trouble. He'll have to spend a lot of time in the film room to learn how to pass against defenses with good secondary play and an array of coverages. I suggest you go back your mother's basement and watch those films another 20 times. Dude get a life. You're not a pro scout. Wait, maybe you're a scout for the Bills. That explains a lot. Leading up to the 1998 draft, there was a debate about whether Manning or Leaf was the better prospect. Several sports writers stated that Manning was the more NFL-ready and would come up to speed more quickly. But they also said that Leaf had more "upside," and was the better long-term prospect. Obviously those writers were dead wrong: the same qualities which led Manning to be "NFL-ready" also meant he had more upside. A quarterback's upside isn't in his arm or his legs. It's between his ears. All of this is a roundabout way of saying that if given a choice between Ponder and any of the other QBs available in this draft, I'd take Ponder. Read what you posted again. They said they believed that Ryan Leaf was the better long term pick. Leaf's problems stemmed from his immaturity and lack of support system around him. The scouting report said don't put him in immediately. San Diego put him in immediately. How did that work out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC in St. Louis Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Great stuff, TC. Thanks. I still feel that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Read what you posted again. They said they believed that Ryan Leaf was the better long term pick. Leaf's problems stemmed from his immaturity and lack of support system around him. The scouting report said don't put him in immediately. San Diego put him in immediately. How did that work out? There is the apparently widespread misconception that you can take a QB with good physical tools but limited mental abilities, and use some combination of coaching, a good system, time for development, and other factors to eventually compensate for or balance out those mental limitations. Those who buy into this fallacy believe that a QB's demonstrated mental traits represent his level of NFL-readiness and short-term potential, but that his physical traits are more indicative of his long-term potential. Nothing could be further from the truth. Maybe Leaf would have been better served had he not been thrown to the wolves right away. But his career was doomed to ultimate failure either way due to his lack of commitment to football, and to his lack of the mental abilities that make a QB great. Nearly every other first round QB bust has also occurred not because of some physical lack or limitation on the QB's part, but because of some flaw or shortcoming within the QB's brain. For some it's the inability to see the whole field, or to process large amounts of information quickly. (See Losman, J.P.). For others it's a lack of commitment to the game. NFL strength and conditioning coaches do not assume that they can take a 90 pound weakling and turn him into a powerhouse of an offensive lineman. Why then do some assume that coaches can take a mental midget and turn him into the next Peyton Manning or Tom Brady? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) You need to understand the concept of projection. Projecting a run-first, throw-second QB with one starting season in the SEC, albeit with a national title, is not easy. Does he have a good arm? Yes. Does he makes some good throws? Yes? Can he scramble? Yes. Can he stand in and read a defense? No sure. Is he smart enough to handle to position at the NFL level? Not sure. Can he scramble out of trouble at will in the NFL when his first read isn't open and he doesn't have the patience to read his other options? No way, the linebackers are too fast. The bottomline is, you can't fall in love with a one-year wonder with questionable maturity and a very small sample of high level college games. How many other one year wonders were drafted to high and bombed? Too many to count I would offer. I can't comment on Gabbert. I haven't seen him play but from what I've read, he's played in a pro-style offense (vs. Newton playing in the spread) and has done very well with it from both the mental and physical sides. And he has a larger sample of games played to judge on. The larger the sample, the closer you get to being able to project who he is. The smaller the sample, the more likely you are to over or under-estimate a player when their real abilities might be somewhere between the extremes. I've said it before here and continue to.... I like Parcells criteria for drafting QBs (based on wins, games, played and graduation) as the starting point. Add in Wonderlic scores and you're in better position to make a good pick with a QB. There is a distinct traits with all SB winning QBs who I have been able to locate Wonderlic scores for, with the exception of one guy... none had scores, if I can recall correctly (have it written down somewhere), less than 22 or so, other than Bradshaw. Basically, every SB winner since 1990 has a score that higher or higher. And my point is, although you might get to the playoffs with some supreme physical talent, the stats seem to indicate that winning one requires some higher intelligence. Proof: this year's SB QBs have a 35 (Rodgers) and a 25 (Roethlisberger). Some recent winners, in addition to Roethlisberger, as well Brady 33 P. Manning 28 E. Manning 39 Brees 28 However, Ryan Leaf had a 27, which is why I said that other factors matter, like Parcells criteria. Leaf bucked Parcells criteria becaus ehe didn't finish college or start and win enough games. The problem with the QB in the NFL is that there is such a premium on the position that it leads to over-reaction and poor decision making on the parts of teams. So teams are willing to disregard what non-emotional, quantitative analysis says and gamble and it fails more often than not. Between 2000 and 2010 29 QBs were taken in the NFL. We can call these guys unquestioned busts (1 in 3) through 2007(not enough playing time): McNown Carr Harrington Ramsey Boller Losman Smith Leinart Quinn Some were serviceable but ultimately didn't/haven't win/won titles or are teetering on bust status Pennington Vick Palmer Leftwich Grossman Rivers Campbell Young Cutler Rodgers And these are your title winners Roethlisberger E. Manning If Rodgers wins, that's a SB-winning QB drafted in the first round in 3 of the last 11 drafts. If not, even worse, only 2. So what this long winded post means is... it's a gamble. Big time. And you have to minimize the risk and not reach in the first round because as history has shown most QBs are drafted too highly. Take the best lineman and move on! I thought this was a solid post until I got to the "serviceable/teetering on bust" category. Seriously? Pennington has had a very good career all things considered, and he ended up getting injured (which cannot be predicted). Rivers is awesome - possibly the second or third best QB of the last few years. Vick has taken his team -- and in his case, it really is him -- to the playoffs a few times now. "Super Bowl winning" is such an unfair measure for a single player in the ultimate team sport. Edited February 25, 2011 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 On the other hand, after indicating that he wouldn't throw, Christian Ponder has made the decision to throw. Per PFT (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/22/the-latest-on-quarterbacks-combine-intentions/): Expected to throw at Combine: Newton, per himself. Kaepernick, per PFT. Locker, per himself. Mallett, per SI.com. Dalton, per FOX Sports’ Adam Caplan. Stanzi, also per Caplan. Not expected to throw at Combine: Gabbert, per USA Today. Ponder, per himself. UPDATE (9:20 p.m. Tuesday): Ponder has decided to throw in Indy, after all. The Tuscaloosa News reports that Alabama quarterback Greg McElroy will not throw at the Combine and may even miss his Pro Day due to two fractures in his right hand. The injury occurred during January’s Senior Bowl game. Other QBs invited to Combine: Ryan Colburn (Fresno State), Pat Devlin (Delaware), Nate Enderle (Idaho), Jerrod Johnson (Texas A&M), Josh Portis (California, PA), Tyrod Taylor (Virginia Tech), Scott Tolzien (Wisconsin), Jeff Van Camp (Florida Atlantic), T.J. Yates (North Carolina). That's too bad, he would have been a great QB to "groom as a backup." The guy has a career ahead of him as an analyst though. He was great during the ESPN's championship coverage. Guarantee it, after his pro career, you'll see him behind the desk/in the booth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stl Bills Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Just providing the video. Don't shoot the messenger. http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/02/25/a-lot-of-good-in-gabbert/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyHorseAteTheKid Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I really like Gabbert but the Bills have bigger needs.. I really can't justify taking this guy with the number 3 pick.. It's like drafting Spiller, I was floored by his college film but he wasn't a need and so far is a wasted pick! BTW Fitz with his quick release has made the O-line look a lot better than it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stl Bills Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I really like Gabbert but the Bills have bigger needs.. I really can't justify taking this guy with the number 3 pick.. It's like drafting Spiller, I was floored by his college film but he wasn't a need and so far is a wasted pick! BTW Fitz with his quick release has made the O-line look a lot better than it is... I agree, I'm praying for either Robert Quinn or Nick Fairley at 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Guys, I hear ya, but what if he really WAS then next Ryan...would you take him then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostbelt City Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 This is such a smokescreen. Watch us take Bowers or Fairley at #3 and then Kaepernick, Ponder, or Dalton (spelling?) in the 2nd round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stl Bills Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) This is such a smokescreen. Watch us take Bowers or Fairley at #3 and then Kaepernick, Ponder, or take Dalton (spelling?)or Stanzi in the 2nd round3rd or 4th. fixed Edited February 25, 2011 by Stl Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOTONE Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 This is such a smokescreen. Watch us take Bowers or Fairley at #3 and then Kaepernick, Ponder, or Dalton (spelling?) in the 2nd round That's what I am thinking. Would love to take Bowers and steal Kaepernick on the way back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Taking a QB early in the draft always scares me. It seems like a no brainer when it works, but its devastating when it flops. After 10 years of misery it would be a tough pill to swallow using our #3 on the next Ryan Leaf. I'm not saying Gabbert is going to fail, but it seems like a huge risk that early in the draft. Especially since Gabbert's biggest accomplishment seems to be convincing Andrew Luck to stay in school. I mean that is why Blaine's stock is so high right now. Its a good thing I'm not running a pro draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I really like Gabbert but the Bills have bigger needs.. I really can't justify taking this guy with the number 3 pick.. It's like drafting Spiller, I was floored by his college film but he wasn't a need and so far is a wasted pick! BTW Fitz with his quick release has made the O-line look a lot better than it is... Do we really have a bigger need than franchise QB? Don't know if Gabbert or Newton are that guy, but if Gailey can make Fitzpatrick into a decent starting QB, I'd love to see what he can do with somebody with elite talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) Just providing the video. Don't shoot the messenger. http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/02/25/a-lot-of-good-in-gabbert/ Why should anyone shout at you? If they do, shoot back with a bigger gun. Those people who believe we have bigger needs don't realize that the Bills are rebuilding. They are years away from competing with the better teams in their own division. If our staff believes that there is a franchise qb on the board when their turn comes out they would be foolish not to take that caliber of qb. Is it Gabbert, Newton, Locker or Mallett? I can't say. This is where the scouts earn their money. Fitz is a lower tier starting qb at best. If your goal as a team is to hover around being average then don't address the most important positon in this year's draft. Can the Bills move down a bit and still get their favored qb with additional picks? That would be a best case scenario. But if they believe Newton or Gabbert are going to be legitimate upper tier qbs then they should simply make the pick and then address some of their other many needs with the remaining picks and free agency. I'm getting tired of the stale argument that the Bills have to use the first pick to draft a player who will make an immediate impact. That is a bogus argument. Last year, not one of our rookies played at an impactful level. That is not to say that they won't develop into being good players. I'm also getting tired of the stale and cowardly argument that taking a qb with the first pick is a risk. As the Bills have proven taking any player at any position with the first round pick is a risky proposition. The four qbs in the past two SBs included three first round picks and the first pick in the second round. What that clearly demonstrates that if you want to achieve a level beyond being mediocre then you have to have a sterling talent playing the most important positon for the team. As of now the Bills don't have that type of talent taking the snaps. Edited February 25, 2011 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Guys, I hear ya, but what if he really WAS then next Ryan...would you take him then? You bet!!! The thing is, its really to early to tell if any of this current crop of QB's is going to evolve into an elite QB, need to look at them again after the combine, and their pro days. We all will see their measureables, its the unmeasurables that are most important. work habits, study habits, first one in, last one out type of a guy. Recently the scouts have been getting it right, aside from Brady Quinn and Jamarcus Russell 4 years ago...so far it looks like most teams that took a QB early have had success the last 3 years, Matt Ryan, Mark Sanchez, Sam Bradford, Matt Stafford, Josh Freeman, Joe Flacco, only Tim Tebow isn't starting. After reading what Chan Gailey has had to say yesterday I'm thinking the Bills will pass on a QB in the first round (I hope so, the defense is just sad), I can't help but think that Gailey might be looking at Ponder in the 3rd round. Why should anyone shout at you? If they do, shoot back with a bigger gun. Those people who believe we have bigger needs don't realize that the Bills are rebuilding. They are years away from competing with the better teams in their own division. If our staff believes that there is a franchise qb on the board when their turn comes out they would be foolish not to take that caliber of qb. Is it Gabbert, Newton, Locker or Mallett? I can't say. This is where the scouts earn their money. Fitz is a lower tier starting qb at best. If your goal as a team is to hover around being average then don't address the most important positon in this year's draft. Can the Bills move down a bit and still get their favored qb with additional picks? That would be a best case scenario. But if they believe Newton or Gabbert are going to be legitimate upper tier qbs then they should simply make the pick and then address some of their other many needs with the remaining picks and free agency. I'm getting tired of the stale argument that the Bills have to use the first pick to draft a player who will make an immediate impact. That is a bogus argument. Last year, not one of our rookies played at an impactful level. That is not to say that they won't develop into being good players. I'm also getting tired of the stale and cowardly argument that taking a qb with the first pick is a risk. As the Bills have proven taking any player at any position with the first round pick is a risky proposition. The four qbs in the past two SBs included three first round picks and the first pick in the second round. What that clearly demonstrates that if you want to achieve a level beyond being mediocre then you have to have a sterling talent playing the most important positon for the team. As of now the Bills don't have that type of talent taking the snaps. You guys, and the armchair QB analysis.... Chan Gailey stated that he thinks Fitz did a great job last season, and is going to remain the starter, he also says that he has won playoff games with players that have less talent then Fitz, thats good enough for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) Do we really have a bigger need than franchise QB? LB Ours were putrid last year. Poz gets hurt all the time. Right now we're counting on Merriman, Moats, and Kelsay at OLB. Yikes. We're 2 or 3 LB's away from not being an embarrassment on defense. Fitz (who I was never a fan of) did a pretty solid jod, and is still young himself. Edited February 25, 2011 by BobChalmers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts