st. pete gogolak Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Sick of mock draft threads already, sick of Ngata/Whitner threads, etc. so I thought I'd throw a curveball out there. 1987 - Bills pick Shane Conlan and pass on University of Miami DT Jerome Brown. Could Brown have been the player to put the Bills over the top and bring home a Lombardi trophy? It's an interesting question and it highlights a couple of points from the Super Bowl years. First, while Bill Polian was the greatest GM in Bills history and one of the all-time NFL front office greats, he wasn't infallible. I think he biggest weakness was not bringing in great coaches to match the greatness of the players he brought in. Walt Corey was the best DC they could find? Really? Pretend that they had a competent DC who realizes that it is an incredible waste of talent to keep Bruce Smith as a 3-4 DE and they decide to make a switch to a 4-3. Brown comes in to play next to Smith and causes utter havoc up front. They still make the deal for Cornelius Bennett and have Bennett and Talley on the outside and trade for a veteran MLB to run the show. Potentially, it's one of the best defenses of all time. Instead they stay with a 3-4 and fail to fully utilize Smith's talents and ultimately start Jeff Wright (a perfect penetrating 4-3 DT) as an undersized NT and get run over in four consecutive Super Bowls. What's the lesson that the Bills never seem to learn (or in the case of Ted Washington and Pat Williams - learn then forget)? Job one - get some beef up front and stop the other damn team from running the ball on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 He died after the Bills' 2nd Super Bowl, so obviously he couldn't have changed things in Super Bowl XXVII or XXVIII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPhan Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Sick of mock draft threads already, sick of Ngata/Whitner threads, etc. so I thought I'd throw a curveball out there. 1987 - Bills pick Shane Conlan and pass on University of Miami DT Jerome Brown. Could Brown have been the player to put the Bills over the top and bring home a Lombardi trophy? It's an interesting question and it highlights a couple of points from the Super Bowl years. First, while Bill Polian was the greatest GM in Bills history and one of the all-time NFL front office greats, he wasn't infallible. I think he biggest weakness was not bringing in great coaches to match the greatness of the players he brought in. Walt Corey was the best DC they could find? Really? Pretend that they had a competent DC who realizes that it is an incredible waste of talent to keep Bruce Smith as a 3-4 DE and they decide to make a switch to a 4-3. Brown comes in to play next to Smith and causes utter havoc up front. They still make the deal for Cornelius Bennett and have Bennett and Talley on the outside and trade for a veteran MLB to run the show. Potentially, it's one of the best defenses of all time. Instead they stay with a 3-4 and fail to fully utilize Smith's talents and ultimately start Jeff Wright (a perfect penetrating 4-3 DT) as an undersized NT and get run over in four consecutive Super Bowls. What's the lesson that the Bills never seem to learn (or in the case of Ted Washington and Pat Williams - learn then forget)? Job one - get some beef up front and stop the other damn team from running the ball on you. The defense was not the only problem for the Bills in those 4 straight SB's. Despite the fact they did not match up well against those 4 classic NFC huge offensive lines, I was equally amazed at how lousy their offenses played when it counted the most too. Against the Giants, it simply made no sense to me that they did not give Thurman the ball all night against that ridiculous defense that featured 1 down lineman and 5 standing linebackers. Against the Redskins nothing worked on offense all night, no matter what they tried. Against the Cowboys (1) the offense turned the ball over what - 9 or 10 times? Against the Cowboys (2) the offense played great in the first half, and then started the second half with yet another huge turnover and then sucked the rest of the second half. Sure I guess a 4-3 defense with a monster in the middle and Jeff Wright using his quickness at the other tackle might have stopped the run better in the long run. But that 3-4 defense Cory used during the SB years combined with the K-Gun offense certainly was good enough for the regular seasons, the playoffs and the AFC Championship games. For some reason neither that defense or the K-Gun offense was able to play well enough in any of the 4 SB's. And oh by the way, Bruce Smith was able to get around 180 sacks while averaging around 100 tackles a season from his 3-4 DE position over his 15 years with the Bills. I'm not sure how anyone could characterize a Hall of Fame career like that as an "incredible waste of talent". I'm sure even Bruce would love to know just how much better of a player he was supposed to be playing from the classic 4-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBud Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Woulda, coulda, shoulda. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts . . . Hindsight is 20/20. Let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewie Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Grawwarrrawraarrrr! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) I cannot believe that people think of things like this. Who should we have drafted in 1965 that would have helped us win the championship in 1966 -- that way we could have beat the Packers in SB I and all of our fortunes would have changed after that. Edited January 28, 2011 by Bob in STL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB2004 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) He died after the Bills' 2nd Super Bowl, so obviously he couldn't have changed things in Super Bowl XXVII or XXVIII. That's seems to be true. RIP Jerome. Edited January 28, 2011 by BB2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe Northern Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Sick of mock draft threads already, sick of Ngata/Whitner threads, etc. so I thought I'd throw a curveball out there. 1987 - Bills pick Shane Conlan and pass on University of Miami DT Jerome Brown. Could Brown have been the player to put the Bills over the top and bring home a Lombardi trophy? It's an interesting question and it highlights a couple of points from the Super Bowl years. First, while Bill Polian was the greatest GM in Bills history and one of the all-time NFL front office greats, he wasn't infallible. I think he biggest weakness was not bringing in great coaches to match the greatness of the players he brought in. Walt Corey was the best DC they could find? Really? Pretend that they had a competent DC who realizes that it is an incredible waste of talent to keep Bruce Smith as a 3-4 DE and they decide to make a switch to a 4-3. Brown comes in to play next to Smith and causes utter havoc up front. They still make the deal for Cornelius Bennett and have Bennett and Talley on the outside and trade for a veteran MLB to run the show. Potentially, it's one of the best defenses of all time. Instead they stay with a 3-4 and fail to fully utilize Smith's talents and ultimately start Jeff Wright (a perfect penetrating 4-3 DT) as an undersized NT and get run over in four consecutive Super Bowls. What's the lesson that the Bills never seem to learn (or in the case of Ted Washington and Pat Williams - learn then forget)? Job one - get some beef up front and stop the other damn team from running the ball on you. Damn. If only draft genius Tom Modrak were at the helm in '87. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 What if the Bills had gone after Reggie White when he was a free agent that wouldn't even have coast us a draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Interesting thought. But looking back at our roster we needed as many players as possible and Polian did the right thing by trading down for extra picks and still being able to land a starter in Conlan. More importantly, we still had a pretty effective Fred Smerlas playing the nose in 1987. He was still playing at a Pro Bowl level. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 That's a pretty long post for such an irrelevant subject. Imagine if we would've drafted Seth Joyner and clyde simmons in the 6th round of the 86 draft, Shannon sharpe in the 6th round of the 1990 draft, Bo Jackson in the 6th round of the 1988 draft and charles Haley in the 3rd round of the 1986 draft? What a team that would be..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Sick of mock draft threads already, sick of Ngata/Whitner threads, etc. so I thought I'd throw a curveball out there. 1987 - Bills pick Shane Conlan and pass on University of Miami DT Jerome Brown. Could Brown have been the player to put the Bills over the top and bring home a Lombardi trophy? It's an interesting question and it highlights a couple of points from the Super Bowl years. First, while Bill Polian was the greatest GM in Bills history and one of the all-time NFL front office greats, he wasn't infallible. I think he biggest weakness was not bringing in great coaches to match the greatness of the players he brought in. Walt Corey was the best DC they could find? Really? Pretend that they had a competent DC who realizes that it is an incredible waste of talent to keep Bruce Smith as a 3-4 DE and they decide to make a switch to a 4-3. Brown comes in to play next to Smith and causes utter havoc up front. They still make the deal for Cornelius Bennett and have Bennett and Talley on the outside and trade for a veteran MLB to run the show. Potentially, it's one of the best defenses of all time. Instead they stay with a 3-4 and fail to fully utilize Smith's talents and ultimately start Jeff Wright (a perfect penetrating 4-3 DT) as an undersized NT and get run over in four consecutive Super Bowls. What's the lesson that the Bills never seem to learn (or in the case of Ted Washington and Pat Williams - learn then forget)? Job one - get some beef up front and stop the other damn team from running the ball on you. I'm a fan of the 3-4--just not the Walt Corey implementation of it. Think how good the Bills' defenses were in the late '90s when Wade Phillips was running the show! Phillips was hugely aided by the fact that instead of Jeff Wright at NT, he had guys like Ted Washington and Pat Williams. If the Polian era Bills had done just those two things--get a Phillips-like defensive coordinator and a Washington or Williams-like NT--they would have won at least one Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I cannot believe that people think of things like this. Who should we have drafted in 1965 that would have helped us win the championship in 1966 -- that way we could have beat the Packers in SB I and all of our fortunes would have changed after that. I think it all started going wrong once William McKinley was shot. Without that presidential assassination hanging over our heads I bet Buffalo could've picked up one of the original NFL teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Sick of mock draft threads already, sick of Ngata/Whitner threads, etc. so I thought I'd throw a curveball out there. 1987 - Bills pick Shane Conlan and pass on University of Miami DT Jerome Brown. Could Brown have been the player to put the Bills over the top and bring home a Lombardi trophy? It's an interesting question and it highlights a couple of points from the Super Bowl years. First, while Bill Polian was the greatest GM in Bills history and one of the all-time NFL front office greats, he wasn't infallible. I think he biggest weakness was not bringing in great coaches to match the greatness of the players he brought in. Walt Corey was the best DC they could find? Really? Pretend that they had a competent DC who realizes that it is an incredible waste of talent to keep Bruce Smith as a 3-4 DE and they decide to make a switch to a 4-3. Brown comes in to play next to Smith and causes utter havoc up front. They still make the deal for Cornelius Bennett and have Bennett and Talley on the outside and trade for a veteran MLB to run the show. Potentially, it's one of the best defenses of all time. Instead they stay with a 3-4 and fail to fully utilize Smith's talents and ultimately start Jeff Wright (a perfect penetrating 4-3 DT) as an undersized NT and get run over in four consecutive Super Bowls. What's the lesson that the Bills never seem to learn (or in the case of Ted Washington and Pat Williams - learn then forget)? Job one - get some beef up front and stop the other damn team from running the ball on you. Seriously? Conlan was a stud for us. Everyone ran 34 back then except for bears and eagles then when Dallas won SB every one switched to 43. Bruce wouldn't have done any better in 43 and actually what he did in 34 made that D better because it allowed an extra LB on the field to do more things. Brown was good player but he wouldn't have made a difference, what we lacked was a hard nosed physical mindset. We lost the superbowls because we weren't physically or mentally tough enough, which is why we got pushed around by all the teams especially the redskins and quit against Dallas when Thurmon fumbled in the second half. As far as getting beef up front that is true, we need to get bigger up front and with Nix's comments about getting bigger especially LBs he will do it everywhere. If he is smart he will go after Dareus at 3 then one of the bigg NTs latter like Phil Taylor, Kendrick Ellis or Jerrel Powe. Aslo a 34 defense is bigger than a 43 defense because you have 3 300Lb+ lineman instead of 2 and the linbackers run from 250 - 270 whereas 43 is 230 - 250, so switching to a 43 wont help us nor get us bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCBongo Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I believe in my heart of hearts that is they had kept Fred Smerlas one more year, he would have helped them win that first SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 I believe in my heart of hearts that is they had kept Fred Smerlas one more year, he would have helped them win that first SB. +1 big Smerlas fan, was definitely better than Jeff Wright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) +1 big Smerlas fan, was definitely better than Jeff Wright Smerlas WAS a better player than Wright in his day. Maybe he could have pulled one more big day out of his hat (and manage to stay onside). Yet when he was let go (yes, the Bills declined to pursue re-signing him after the 1989 season, in which his game was deteriorating from his previous standard). In 1990, he played 6 games for SF, and played behind Michael Carter. In 1991 and 1992, he played for the Patriots and played behind Tim Goad. After the 1989 season, Fred was pretty much done as a player. Edited January 29, 2011 by Spiderweb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 If Derrick Burroughs doesn't get injured we win the superbowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 If Derrick Burroughs doesn't get injured we win the superbowl. Buroughs was really coming on as a solid corner when he got injured but I don't recall our CBs hurting us in Super Bowl XXV? I would have like to have Don Bebee in the game. I think the Bills we just way too slow to adjust. For most of the game we ran the offense that they schemed for. We played it like they expected. All we had to do was hand the ball to Therman and that would have forced them to go back to their standard 3-4. Then we could throw. We could have racked up big points had we played the second quarter like we played the 4th. Once we established a two TD lead their 3 yards and a cloud of dust slow ball offense becomes a liability to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) Drafting Phil Dokes one pick before Miami got A.J. Duhe was a master stroke. Thank you Stew Barber et Co. Edited January 29, 2011 by Nanker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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