Dorkington Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) Seems I disagree with the overwhelming majority on a couple things. Everyone seems to be screaming for a QB with our first pick to replace Fitzpatrick with. Me: How does one expect a young QB to develop and be successful with no offensive line, no tight end and a poor group of receivers? Not to mention, playing from behind as we currently have no defense. Everyone seems to be screaming to ditch Poz, Whitner and a couple other guys. Me: Why would we automatically ditch our solid players vs ditching our worse players? Why would you replace solid players with draft picks, other solid FAs, instead of replacing bad players with FA's/Draft Picks? Shouldn't we keep our solid guys, and get better guys to put in front of them/around them? Isn't depth important in the NFL? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Edited January 5, 2011 by Dorkington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous Guy Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. nope...you just don't fall into the groupthink trap. "During groupthink, members of the group avoid promoting viewpoints outside the comfort zone of consensus thinking. A variety of motives for this may exist such as a desire to avoid being seen as foolish, or a desire to avoid embarrassing or angering other members of the group. Groupthink may cause groups to make hasty, irrational decisions, where individual doubts are set aside, for fear of upsetting the group’s balance." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPicc2114 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Its time to blow this thing up and start over. There are a lot of players who need to go and Ryan Fitzpatrick is not the answer long term at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) nope...you just don't fall into the groupthink trap. "During groupthink, members of the group avoid promoting viewpoints outside the comfort zone of consensus thinking. A variety of motives for this may exist such as a desire to avoid being seen as foolish, or a desire to avoid embarrassing or angering other members of the group. Groupthink may cause groups to make hasty, irrational decisions, where individual doubts are set aside, for fear of upsetting the group's balance." More or less the way it goes with every conference call. Oh...and Whitner and Poz are FAR from "solid" players. Edited January 5, 2011 by RkFast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsintaiwan Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Its time to blow this thing up and start over. There are a lot of players who need to go and Ryan Fitzpatrick is not the answer long term at QB. relentless. it has been blown up. fitz was curiously left standing. this is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HARCO186 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Seems I disagree with the overwhelming majority on a couple things. Everyone seems to be screaming for a QB with our first pick to replace Fitzpatrick with. Me: How does one expect a young QB to develop and be successful with no offensive line, no tight end and a poor group of receivers? Not to mention, playing from behind as we currently have no defense. Everyone seems to be screaming to ditch Poz, Whitner and a couple other guys. Me: Why would we automatically ditch our solid players vs ditching our worse players? Why would you replace solid players with draft picks, other solid FAs, instead of replacing bad players with FA's/Draft Picks? Shouldn't we keep our solid guys, and get better guys to put in front of them/around them? Isn't depth important in the NFL? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. You must not live in Buffalo, because neither do I and I don't understand half this board myself. I wouldn't scream QB, but if the one that the management feels is a difference maker, than grab them. I wouldn't get mad at all if they took a new QB or went to the D-line first. Other than that, then I would wonder about the management. I firmly BILLieve in Chan the Man and his Good Ole Boy Nix to make things right. If they feel Fitz will and can do the job, then keep him. He did put up good numbers with no support this year. They can't say a thing about the defensive line though. WE NEED HELP THERE! Not one person can argue that. I feel the management takes a defensive player in the 1st round and maybe even sell our 1st round to get a few defensive guys. That would not surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Poor group of receivers? When Evans comes back, with the further development of the 2010 rookie WRs, including Easley, the Bills one bright spot is at WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Seems I disagree with the overwhelming majority on a couple things. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I agree with you on keeping Whitner, Poz ... Here is the deal with the QB situation - Great QBs and even above average QBs are rare. See the long line of under-achievers drafted by other teams (and heck the Bills also). Secondly, it is always better to be not rushing the young QB into the starting line-up. See the development of A Rodgers and how he learned under Favre to now become a solid QB. Put both these thoughts together and you can see that we need to grab a QB if the FO believes they have a potentially great one available. Then he can sit behind Fitz, get used to the speed of the NFL and be eased into the starting line-up. Yes Fitz has made getting a QB less of a problem than it was last year but his performance overall has shown that he has limitations which will prevent him from taking us to the top level. Look at it another way - we are likely to load up on talent in the next two seasons and be ready to make a major run in 2012 and beyond. If at that point we find that the rest of the team is championship ready but Fitz is the weak link, we will have to wait another two years or so to groom a young QB. We are better of getting a good one now so that the entire team will be fully mature and prepared for a SB run(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous Guy Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 We are better of getting a good one now so that the entire team will be fully mature and prepared for a SB run(s). Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm0404 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 People want a good quarterback because we don't have one, and people notice that the teams that have elite quarterbacks tend to win the Super Bowl every single year, and compete for championships year in and year out. People think that competing for championships year in and year out is better than rebuilding to 7-9 with a journeyman bottom-third-of-the-league guy manning the absolute most important position in all organized sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWings Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 You're not on crazy pills. People want a QB because it's the most visible part of the team. I agree that if you don't have a good QB, you won't go anywhere. However, I'll maintain that if you have a decent-to-solid QB with a good offensive line, you can still win. Maybe not be an elite team or maybe not win a Superbowl (Trent Dilfer won one, remember), but be relevant and be contenders every year. The QB play hasn't been stellar - Fitz was a breath of fresh air compared to Trent Edwards and Brian Brohm didn't really give anyone a sense of promise. I guess people figure that a first round pick spent on a hot-shot QB is worth it. People want to get rid of Poz & Whitner because they "haven't lived up to their expectations". Whitner was a first round draft pick and hasn't exactly played like that, while he keeps whining & tweeting about everything. Everyone liked Posluszny as soon as he was drafted, but they want him gone because he hasn't risen to Mike Singletary or even Brian Urlacher status yet. The team could use a better QB, but there are enough holes elsewhere that need filling first. Fitz can hold down the fort for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I agree with you on keeping Whitner, Poz ... Here is the deal with the QB situation - Great QBs and even above average QBs are rare. See the long line of under-achievers drafted by other teams (and heck the Bills also). Secondly, it is always better to be not rushing the young QB into the starting line-up. See the development of A Rodgers and how he learned under Favre to now become a solid QB. Put both these thoughts together and you can see that we need to grab a QB if the FO believes they have a potentially great one available. Then he can sit behind Fitz, get used to the speed of the NFL and be eased into the starting line-up. Yes Fitz has made getting a QB less of a problem than it was last year but his performance overall has shown that he has limitations which will prevent him from taking us to the top level. Look at it another way - we are likely to load up on talent in the next two seasons and be ready to make a major run in 2012 and beyond. If at that point we find that the rest of the team is championship ready but Fitz is the weak link, we will have to wait another two years or so to groom a young QB. We are better of getting a good one now so that the entire team will be fully mature and prepared for a SB run(s). True, but Sanchez and Big Ben were brought into teams with good defenses that made up for the learning curve. Both made it to the Conference Finals their first year. It can be done many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Seems I disagree with the overwhelming majority on a couple things. Everyone seems to be screaming for a QB with our first pick to replace Fitzpatrick with. Me: How does one expect a young QB to develop and be successful with no offensive line, no tight end and a poor group of receivers? Not to mention, playing from behind as we currently have no defense. Everyone seems to be screaming to ditch Poz, Whitner and a couple other guys. Me: Why would we automatically ditch our solid players vs ditching our worse players? Why would you replace solid players with draft picks, other solid FAs, instead of replacing bad players with FA's/Draft Picks? Shouldn't we keep our solid guys, and get better guys to put in front of them/around them? Isn't depth important in the NFL? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. This team has so many holes and below average players that you have to start somewhere, might as well start with the most important position on the team-Quarterback. It doesn't help that this new front office, as clueless as they are, are willing to let some of the few "average" players walk and create even more holes, then take a gamble and spend millions on an injury riddled head case Merriman. People want a good quarterback because we don't have one, and people notice that the teams that have elite quarterbacks tend to win the Super Bowl every single year, and compete for championships year in and year out. People think that competing for championships year in and year out is better than rebuilding to 7-9 with a journeyman bottom-third-of-the-league guy manning the absolute most important position in all organized sports. Who in their right mind wouldn't think that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cage Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 More or less the way it goes with every conference call. Oh...and Whitner and Poz are FAR from "solid" players. The position on them isn't necessarily to dump them, but at what price should they be resigned. Whitner made #8 overall money. Is he a good Safety,... yes. Is he worth a raise over #7 money,... NO. Will he be back? Depends on whether some team will pony up, which I'm guessing is NO. If he has to take less will he come back to the Bills or take less elsewhere? Depends on his ego. Some players won't go back to their current teams if they have to play for less, their egos will only allow them to do that elsewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Its time to blow this thing up and start over. There are a lot of players who need to go and Ryan Fitzpatrick is not the answer long term at QB. Wow, that is pretty negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDVA Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 nope...you just don't fall into the groupthink trap. "During groupthink, members of the group avoid promoting viewpoints outside the comfort zone of consensus thinking. A variety of motives for this may exist such as a desire to avoid being seen as foolish, or a desire to avoid embarrassing or angering other members of the group. Groupthink may cause groups to make hasty, irrational decisions, where individual doubts are set aside, for fear of upsetting the group’s balance." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) I agree in principal with the original poster. Dumping talent is dumb unless you have someone better to replace them. Whitner is better than people give him credit for because they are still pissed we didn't draft Ngata. That being said he isn't anything special on the field but a solid player and a guy who publicly says he wants to win and wanted to stay in Buffalo. Believe it or not those guys don't grow on trees. Free agents aren't beating down Buffalo's door for an opportunity to play. Whitner will probably not be missed at all. Poz, I don't know what it is with the love affair that many have with this guy. He is a solid player but he gets hurt almost every year, doesn't have sideline to sideline speed to play the middle and can't cover a TE to save his life. Look back at all the TE scores or big plays on the Bills this year. Often that TE was Poz's coverage responsibility. Even more damning is that in my opinion he has been outplayed every year by the guy he replaced, London Fletcher. Anyone remember all the complaints about Fletcher? Led the team in tackles, supposedly all were downfield after significant gains by the RB, etc? Sound like anyone whose name ends in "luzny"? Fitz at QB isn't our biggest problem. Give the guy some credit. He was held behind Trent Edwards who we tried to show case for the first 4 weeks to get some trade value and missed out on starter reps in training camp and preseason when it counted. THAT being said, if Luck falls to us which he won't, you take him! Barring something that ridiculously "lucky" we get guys on defense. We get DT that can hold up against the run so we can actually run the 3 - 4. We get DE/LB that can rush the passer, hold the edge in the run game and stay in position on the backside to cover the cutback run. We get LBs with sideline to sideline speed and the ability to cover TEs. The offense just needs time for already acquired talent to develop. WR will be one of our strengths when everyone is healthy. RB is set. All we need, STILL, is for the oline to gel and for the love of all that is football get us a freaking RT. Maybe that is Wang who was injured for months. I know the idea isn't popular and doesn't come with any guarantee of success but get us a really good LT and move Bell to RT ...IF AND ONLY IF HE IS CAPABLE OF IT. It has become apparent to me that the improvements that I thought the o-line made might largely be attributable to Fitz calling out the protections, helping the line to make calls, running the right plays and getting rid of the ball. Fitz had us forgetting about the offensive line for a while but I am reminded of the first games with Trent, the game with Fitz hurt and then Brohm. A good line is a good line regardless of who is behind center. We don't have a good line yet. Edited January 5, 2011 by PDaDdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoretalk Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Seems I disagree with the overwhelming majority on a couple things. Everyone seems to be screaming for a QB with our first pick to replace Fitzpatrick with. Me: How does one expect a young QB to develop and be successful with no offensive line, no tight end and a poor group of receivers? Not to mention, playing from behind as we currently have no defense. Everyone seems to be screaming to ditch Poz, Whitner and a couple other guys. Me: Why would we automatically ditch our solid players vs ditching our worse players? Why would you replace solid players with draft picks, other solid FAs, instead of replacing bad players with FA's/Draft Picks? Shouldn't we keep our solid guys, and get better guys to put in front of them/around them? Isn't depth important in the NFL? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Nope ... no crazy pills; the board as usual wants the Bills to dump whoever has been on the 'let's hate him today' list because someone else's cast off must be better than who we have playing for the Bills right now. And, the quarterback hoopla for a player who might not even finish a full college career amazes me when for the last several years it is clear our defense's inability to stuff another team has been our number one offensive problem. Under Coach Perry it was bend and bend and bend but not break and play to not lose the game (funny how that philosophy came back to haunt him in the Eagles game)but it has been forever since we had the defensive talent that stuck it to the other team. Keeping Poz and Whitner on the team but making them earn starting positions is ok with me but Donte wants top five dollars apparently. I really think we can do better than these two but Poz can be a decent #3 or #4 LB but sadly he has shown he doesn't have the fire nor the ability to be 'the guy' in the middle. Donte always just seems to be a step behind too. It never hurts to set an example that you want to get better by casting off players who don't work hard but we on the bulletin board do not know how hard these guys are working but Maybin's commnents today sure do imply that he hasn't even been doing his film work this year ... he's one to set free today. We need to draft the hungry defensive end or linebacker in the draft (Just look at what Clay Matthews does for the entire Green Bay team). If our defense stopped the run and/or threatened passing quarterbacks then our entire team gets better. So, keep your sanity ... this is only the first year of the turn around with Gailey. I am happy with the trip so far but this offseason, which might last until 2012, is when we see how he and Nix mold the team since now the players are truly theirs not Dick's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy G Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 True, but Sanchez and Big Ben were brought into teams with good defenses that made up for the learning curve. Both made it to the Conference Finals their first year. It can be done many ways. Good point, why not build around what we have so that when you add a talented player, you set them up to succeed. Build it for the long haul and not just to meddle in mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 True, but Sanchez and Big Ben were brought into teams with good defenses that made up for the learning curve. Both made it to the Conference Finals their first year. It can be done many ways. More importantly, their teams already has a good OL in place - something we are atleast two players short of. I do agree there is no single way to accomplish the goals but the most proven one is to get a franchise QB when you have the opportunity. Ideally, one or two years before you really need one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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