jacksonsville not sold on TE

[The Senator]

OK 1)How come they re-signed him after he cleared waivers? I would respond with; Why did they cut him in the first place if he was so good?

 

2)Why did they match Buffalo? I would respond with; If they wanted him so bad, they could have had him on the 53 man roster and not have had to worry about it.

 

Just because both GB and Buffalo wanted him doesn't mean anything. Does it mean anything that 30 teams didn't?

OK

 

1) I already answered that - they kept 6 RBs on the active roster that season, just 2 QBs, and tried to hide Brohm on the PS.

 

2) See #1. And by offering to match Buffalo's deal, GB offered him a place on their active roster.

 

What does it mean that 30 teams didn't claim him? I can't answer that. Maybe they forgot about him while he was 3rd on Green Bay's active roster depth chart all of 2008. Kind of like that other really sucky QB (Colt McCoy) that's 3rd on Cleveland's depth chart in his rookie season.

 

But Buddy's the guy to ask, not me. Buddy's the guy that signed him, cut Gibran to make room for him, and kept him around this year over Trent Edwards.

 

Nix wasn't the GM when Brohm was signed, it was Brandon with Guy as the pro personnel man. So unless you have evidence that Nix was involved, since at the time he was scouting college guys, that's a conjecture on your part, not an actual statement of fact.

It could be as simple as Gibran Hamdan was a Jauron guy, Jauron got fired & whoever was in charge decided they would rather take a flyer on bringing in Brohm than wasting any more time with Gibran Hamdan. Since Hamdan couldn't even make it in the CFL this year, they weren't exactly saying a lot by getting rid of Hamdan.

Why would a team out of contention ever bring in a veteran in November unless everyone else was hurt? It would have made no sense to have someone like Garcia ride the bench the last month & a half. If you're going to bring in a guy off a practice squad at that point in the season, why not go after the guy picked the highest in the draft? Can't make things any worse having that guy as 3rd stringer over Hamdan.

It really didn't say anything except they thought Hamdan was a total waste of time & they decided to bring in a guy who might end up better than Hamdan.

Not my fault if you can't 'connect the dots', my perception-challenged friend. I'm basing my statement that Nix was calling the shots based on

 

1) His prior role in San Diego before he rejoined the Bills in Jan 09 -

 

Nix's job with the Chargers was to oversee both pro and college scouting and to be one of the main decision makers in each NFL Draft. Nix was a major reason the Chargers turned around from a losing football team to a rebuilt, winning team. In 2004, three players Nix drafted were selected to the 2005 Pro Bowl. In 2005, six players Nix drafted were selected to the 2006 Pro Bowl. In 2006, eleven players Nix drafted were selected to the 2007 Pro Bowl. In 2007, eight players Nix drafted were selected to the 2008 Pro Bowl.

 

The Chargers won four out of the last five AFC West titles with Nix as Assistant GM and Director of Player Personnel, in charge of college scouting and instrumental to the decision making process of their NFL drafts.

 

(from Wiki)

 

In other words, Nix was VERY familiar with Brohm from both the 2007 draft - which Brohm almost declared for when it was speculated he might be the #1 overall pick - and the 2008 draft in which Green Bay selected him 56th overall in the second round.

 

 

2) Brohm was signed by the Bills on Nov 19, 2009...

 

Quarterback Brian Brohm rejected an offer to stay in Green Bay in order to pursue a fresh start in Buffalo with a team that's suddenly losing confidence in Trent Edwards. The Bills plucked Brohm off the Packers' practice squad on Thursday, signing the 2008 second-round draft pick to a two-year contract. In agreeing to play for the Bills, Brohm said he turned down a last-minute bid by the Packers to keep him. "The last 24 hours have been good to me. I went from being on the practice squad to having pretty much two offers," he said after his first practice with the Bills. "I just wanted a fresh start, a new start, and I think Buffalo gives me that."

 

(link - Tim Graham)

 

 

Now I know you won't remember or connect any of this, but there was a whole lot of crap going on at OBD that week. Jauron was fired two days earlier, Perry Fewell was named interim coach, Gibran Hamdan was cut to make room for Brohm, and Trent Edwards was benched in favor of Fitzpatrick - of whom Fewell said, "He gives us a better chance to win.".

 

 

3) Less than 2 months later (Jan 3, 2010), Buddy Nix was named GM. One of his very first executive decisions? Firing John Guy (Jan 20 - coincidentally 2 months to the day after Brohm was signed, Hamdan was cut, and Edwards was benched).

 

 

So if you think Guy was not already on the way out in November and someone else was already calling the shots - after Guy led the Bills along a 10-year playoff drought, and after Ralph was so fed up he actually fired Jauron during the season after giving him a huge contract extension only months earlier, and after a huge shakeup at the QB position where Edwards was benched and Hamdan was cut (both signed during Guy's tenure) to make room for the newly signed Brian Brohm - well hey, pass that pipe this way.

 

And if you want to think that, when Guy was on the way out, marketing wiz and parking revenue enhancer Russ Brandon was calling the shots on player personnel decisions while the Bills already had Buddy Nix on board - who was regional scout for the Bills from 1993-2000 under John Butler, and who was assistant GM and Director of Player Personnel under AJ Smith with the Chargers (go back and re-read his duties and accomplishments above), then I'll also have some of that hooch you're drinkin'!

 

 

Now, what's the next red herring? What other nonsense are you going to come up with, trying to justify your curious disdain for Brian Brohm? You're really making progressively less sense with every post.

Edited October 1, 2010 by The Senator

[Offside Number 76]

 

{Brohm] is an unknown quantity right now. That's attractive when the known isn't very good.

 

Everyone needs to memorize this. It's freaking academic.

[The Senator]

Everyone needs to memorize this. It's freaking academic.

It's academic to us, yes, but I'm pretty sure Brohm's not 'an unknown quantity' to Nix and Gailey - Brian Brohm is here, and Trent Edwards is gone.

 

Hopefully, when we're up around 35-3 against the Jets tomorrow, there'll be some time to get a look at Brohm.

[Greybeard]

If memory serves right, they got him for $100.

 

 

It appears a few fans don't know the Kemp story. While Kemp was on waivers, it was SD position that as soon as Kemp recovered from an injury, he would again be their #1 QB. SD was really pissed at Buffalo for taking Kemp. They thought there was a gentleman's agreement that if a guy was injured and waived, no one would claim him. I guess the Bills thought otherwise.

 

So putting Kemp in this conversation is without merit as to waivers although he did bounce around the NFL before the AFL was formed.

 

I believe this is the correct story, if anyone knows otherwise, they can elaborate.

[Albany,n.y.]

OK

 

1) I already answered that - they kept 6 RBs on the active roster that season, just 2 QBs, and tried to hide Brohm on the PS.

 

2) See #1. And by offering to match Buffalo's deal, GB offered him a place on their active roster.

 

What does it mean that 30 teams didn't claim him? I can't answer that. Maybe they forgot about him while he was 3rd on Green Bay's active roster depth chart all of 2008. Kind of like that other really sucky QB (Colt McCoy) that's 3rd on Cleveland's depth chart in his rookie season.

 

But Buddy's the guy to ask, not me. Buddy's the guy that signed him, cut Gibran to make room for him, and kept him around this year over Trent Edwards.

 

 

Not my fault if you can't 'connect the dots', my perception-challenged friend. I'm basing my statement that Nix was calling the shots based on

 

1) His prior role in San Diego before he rejoined the Bills in Jan 09 -

 

Nix's job with the Chargers was to oversee both pro and college scouting and to be one of the main decision makers in each NFL Draft. Nix was a major reason the Chargers turned around from a losing football team to a rebuilt, winning team. In 2004, three players Nix drafted were selected to the 2005 Pro Bowl. In 2005, six players Nix drafted were selected to the 2006 Pro Bowl. In 2006, eleven players Nix drafted were selected to the 2007 Pro Bowl. In 2007, eight players Nix drafted were selected to the 2008 Pro Bowl.

 

The Chargers won four out of the last five AFC West titles with Nix as Assistant GM and Director of Player Personnel, in charge of college scouting and instrumental to the decision making process of their NFL drafts.

 

(from Wiki)

 

In other words, Nix was VERY familiar with Brohm from both the 2007 draft - which Brohm almost declared for when it was speculated he might be the #1 overall pick - and the 2008 draft in which Green Bay selected him 56th overall in the second round.

 

 

2) Brohm was signed by the Bills on Nov 19, 2009...

 

Quarterback Brian Brohm rejected an offer to stay in Green Bay in order to pursue a fresh start in Buffalo with a team that's suddenly losing confidence in Trent Edwards. The Bills plucked Brohm off the Packers' practice squad on Thursday, signing the 2008 second-round draft pick to a two-year contract. In agreeing to play for the Bills, Brohm said he turned down a last-minute bid by the Packers to keep him. "The last 24 hours have been good to me. I went from being on the practice squad to having pretty much two offers," he said after his first practice with the Bills. "I just wanted a fresh start, a new start, and I think Buffalo gives me that."

 

(link - Tim Graham)

 

 

Now I know you won't remember or connect any of this, but there was a whole lot of crap going on at OBD that week. Jauron was fired two days earlier, Perry Fewell was named interim coach, Gibran Hamdan was cut to make room for Brohm, and Trent Edwards was benched in favor of Fitzpatrick - of whom Fewell said, "He gives us a better chance to win.".

 

 

3) Less than 2 months later (Jan 3, 2010), Buddy Nix was named GM. One of his very first executive decisions? Firing John Guy (Jan 20 - coincidentally 2 months to the day after Brohm was signed, Hamdan was cut, and Edwards was benched).

 

 

So if you think Guy was not already on the way out in November and someone else was already calling the shots - after Guy led the Bills along a 10-year playoff drought, and after Ralph was so fed up he actually fired Jauron during the season after giving him a huge contract extension only months earlier, and after a huge shakeup at the QB position where Edwards was benched and Hamdan was cut (both signed during Guy's tenure) to make room for the newly signed Brian Brohm - well hey, pass that pipe this way.

 

And if you want to think that, when Guy was on the way out, marketing wiz and parking revenue enhancer Russ Brandon was calling the shots on player personnel decisions while the Bills already had Buddy Nix on board - who was regional scout for the Bills from 1993-2000 under John Butler, and who was assistant GM and Director of Player Personnel under AJ Smith with the Chargers (go back and re-read his duties and accomplishments above), then I'll also have some of that hooch you're drinkin'!

 

 

Now, what's the next red herring? What other nonsense are you going to come up with, trying to justify your curious disdain for Brian Brohm? You're really making progressively less sense with every post.

I'm not even going to try to top the twisted logic you use in an attempt to justify your love of GB practice squad QBs,

The only thing I need to say is that no team that gives a hoot about a 2nd round pick tries to clear him through waivers to "hide" him on a practice squad if they think he has any long term talent. the rest of your diatribe is just pure speculation to justify a position you have taken. When Brohm sucks will you then blame Nix?

[The Senator]

I'm not even going to try to top the twisted logic you use in an attempt to justify your love of GB practice squad QBs,

The only thing I need to say is that no team that gives a hoot about a 2nd round pick tries to clear him through waivers to "hide" him on a practice squad if they think he has any long term talent. the rest of your diatribe is just pure speculation to justify a position you have taken. When Brohm sucks will you then blame Nix?

Whatever, dude. Still on the hooch from last nite, or just starting your morning 'bracer'?

Edited October 2, 2010 by The Senator

[Chilly]

fixed.

 

Broken f'in record, dude. Read it all before, multiple times, and if that's your reasoning for saying Brohm sucks without ever seeing him as a legitimate starter in more than one NFL game, you're a moron.

 

YOU ragging on someone for being a broken record?

 

hahahahah.

[The Senator]

YOU ragging on someone for being a broken record?

 

hahahahah.

Shouldn't you be wrapping yourself in TommyGear and stocking up on Lone Star for the big ass-whuppin' Oklahoma's gonna give you guys this afternoon?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

You've got my premise correct, but I don't hate Brohm. I don't like to hope for something that statistically, has a virtual zero percent chance of success. There's a big difference between being a fan & hoping for something that has a decent chance of working & living in a dream world. The fans who thought we were a playoff contender before the season started weren't better fans than those of us who saw the team for what it is.

 

This is reminding me of a cartoon my boss likes featuring a duck.

 

You see a cluster of shots to the left of the duck.

You see a cluster of shots an equal distance to the right of the duck.

 

The caption reads, "statistically the duck is dead".

 

What I'm getting at, is, sometimes statistics aren't very predictive.

 

I respect the amount of research it would take to look at every QB drafted in the second round or higher, figure out which were cut and wound up on the practice squad, and what their eventual success in the league was. I'm a little curious how many QB have been in that situation, and who they were? Would you mind sharing?

 

If it's a small number, then it's appropriate to ask how predictive that statistic really is, and look at the individual situation.

I suspect that most teams who draft a QB high, are not in the fortunate position of drafting another QB who has at least as much potential in the same year.

Thus they're going to keep their high draft choice, even if they start to see great big warts (Colt McCoy?)

 

Green Bay won the QB jackpot in the 2008 draft.

Flynn was a real sleeper - a BCS-winning offensive-MVP QB who spent two years on the bench backing up JaMarcus Russell.

If he'd had more college playing time and played like he did as a senior, no question he would have drafted much much higher.

 

Aaron Rodgers seems indestructible, it doesn't add value for GB to keep 3 QB on the roster.

So you take the guy who fits the system better and is coming along faster.

If GB didn't like Brohm and think he had potential, they wouldn't have burnt a practice squad spot on him or offered to match the Bills offer when the Bills signed him.

 

So the situation which led to Brohm being cut as a rookie and tucked on the practice squad, seems like a fairly exceptional situation.

 

Note: I'm not saying Brohm is another Steve Young, I'm not championing the position he must have something, bring him on!.

I am questioning the premise of dismissing him as "zero chance of success" based on a statistic that may or may not have enough numbers in it to have predictive value here.

[FreakPop]

I'm not even going to try to top the twisted logic you use in an attempt to justify your love of GB practice squad QBs,

The only thing I need to say is that no team that gives a hoot about a 2nd round pick tries to clear him through waivers to "hide" him on a practice squad if they think he has any long term talent. the rest of your diatribe is just pure speculation to justify a position you have taken. When Brohm sucks will you then blame Nix?

 

 

Can't accept defeat can you?

[Albany,n.y.]

Can't accept defeat can you?

Anyone who starts off by saying a team would try to hide a 2nd round pick on a practice squad loses all credibility. The bottom line is that Brian Brohm will get a shot this year & one of us will be right. At that point the one who is right can call the other an idiot. Until then what's the point?

I have to get ready to travel to the game, so I just can't waste any more time arguing hypotheticals.

 

This is reminding me of a cartoon my boss likes featuring a duck.

 

You see a cluster of shots to the left of the duck.

You see a cluster of shots an equal distance to the right of the duck.

 

The caption reads, "statistically the duck is dead".

 

What I'm getting at, is, sometimes statistics aren't very predictive.

 

I respect the amount of research it would take to look at every QB drafted in the second round or higher, figure out which were cut and wound up on the practice squad, and what their eventual success in the league was. I'm a little curious how many QB have been in that situation, and who they were? Would you mind sharing?

 

If it's a small number, then it's appropriate to ask how predictive that statistic really is, and look at the individual situation.

I suspect that most teams who draft a QB high, are not in the fortunate position of drafting another QB who has at least as much potential in the same year.

Thus they're going to keep their high draft choice, even if they start to see great big warts (Colt McCoy?)

 

Green Bay won the QB jackpot in the 2008 draft.

Flynn was a real sleeper - a BCS-winning offensive-MVP QB who spent two years on the bench backing up JaMarcus Russell.

If he'd had more college playing time and played like he did as a senior, no question he would have drafted much much higher.

 

Aaron Rodgers seems indestructible, it doesn't add value for GB to keep 3 QB on the roster.

So you take the guy who fits the system better and is coming along faster.

If GB didn't like Brohm and think he had potential, they wouldn't have burnt a practice squad spot on him or offered to match the Bills offer when the Bills signed him.

 

So the situation which led to Brohm being cut as a rookie and tucked on the practice squad, seems like a fairly exceptional situation.

 

Note: I'm not saying Brohm is another Steve Young, I'm not championing the position he must have something, bring him on!.

I am questioning the premise of dismissing him as "zero chance of success" based on a statistic that may or may not have enough numbers in it to have predictive value here.

My research actually started years ago when the JP lovers kept telling us that he got screwed & he'd come back & haunt us. I looked at all the early round QB busts. With the exception of Kerry Collins, who at the time had already led his team to an NFC championship game and developed a drinking problem, no early QB cut on his rookie contract had ever become a viable starter elsewhere. Many got 2nd & 3rd shots like Losman, Harrington, Leaf, etc & none made it. More 2nd rounders who busted never even got a chance at starting anywhere. Look at just the Bills-our 2nd round QB busts were Todd Collins, who has turned into a decent backup but nothing more, Matt Kofler, Gene Bradley and Dennis Shaw. It's the same throughout the league.

[The Senator]

Anyone who starts off by saying a team would try to hide a 2nd round pick on a practice squad loses all credibility. The bottom line is that Brian Brohm will get a shot this year & one of us will be right. At that point the one who is right can call the other an idiot. Until then what's the point?

I have to get ready to travel to the game, so I just can't waste any more time arguing hypotheticals.

 

My research actually started years ago when the JP lovers kept telling us that he got screwed & he'd come back & haunt us. I looked at all the early round QB busts. With the exception of Kerry Collins, who at the time had already led his team to an NFC championship game and developed a drinking problem, no early QB cut on his rookie contract had ever become a viable starter elsewhere. Many got 2nd & 3rd shots like Losman, Harrington, Leaf, etc & none made it. More 2nd rounders who busted never even got a chance at starting anywhere. Look at just the Bills-our 2nd round QB busts were Todd Collins, who has turned into a decent backup but nothing more, Matt Kofler, Gene Bradley and Dennis Shaw. It's the same throughout the league.

And yet you went on to waste just a bit more time posting additional nonsense that is 100% irrelevant to Brian Brohm.

 

I, too, have a game to go to - the big Canisius-St. Joe's smackdown - so I'll just call you an idiot now and be done with it.

Edited October 2, 2010 by The Senator

[wnyguy]

And yet you went on to waste just a bit more time posting additional nonsense that is 100% irrelevant to Brian Brohm.

 

I, too, have a game to go to - the big Canisius-St. Joe's smackdown - so I'll just call you an idiot now and be done with it.

 

 

Okay that last part made me laugh. I see no sense in Albany's premise that Brohm is a total dud, I am sure that before the season is over we will all have an idea about Brohm.

[whodat]

OK 1)How come they re-signed him after he cleared waivers? I would respond with; Why did they cut him in the first place if he was so good?

 

2)Why did they match Buffalo? I would respond with; If they wanted him so bad, they could have had him on the 53 man roster and not have had to worry about it.

 

Just because both GB and Buffalo wanted him doesn't mean anything. Does it mean anything that 30 teams didn't?

 

Correction; It means 10 teams passed on him since the bills draft position was at 11. Any other team putting in a waiver claim went unreported since it mattered little.

[thewildrabbit]

If you read the Jag fans post they are all writing almost the same stuff Bills fans are writing about, what QB should they draft next year.

 

I think most Jags fans realize neither Garrard or Edwards is the answer and are drooling over next years rookies QB prospects, just like Bills fans

[Hapless Bills Fan]

My research actually started years ago when the JP lovers kept telling us that he got screwed & he'd come back & haunt us. I looked at all the early round QB busts. With the exception of Kerry Collins, who at the time had already led his team to an NFC championship game and developed a drinking problem, no early QB cut on his rookie contract had ever become a viable starter elsewhere.

 

I respect research.

 

Would you mind sharing the names of the other 2nd round (or better) draft choice QB who were cut in their rookie season?

I defer to your years of research -- I can't call any to mind myself.

 

Really appreciate you sharing your research here, really like to understand the background for your reiterated statement.

 

Early round QB who made the roster, but later determined to be busts, I can think of plenty there --

they don't seem to be relevant to your premise as I understand it, correct?

 

Addendum: Just went to pro-football-reference, used the customizable draft query, and brought up 1st and 2nd round QB drafts

for 1990-2009. Scanned it for players I don't know what happened to them, really couldn't find any other than Brohm that look as though they meet the criteria of being cut and put on the PS in their rookie season.

 

So appreciate learning from your deeper research, also thinking that Brohm's path is really a pretty unique situation driven by GB serendipity of drafting two good QB in 2008.

 

Thanks!

Edited October 2, 2010 by Hopeful

[zow2]

I'm kinda shocked the Jags didn't take Tebow. Seemed like a natural fit there even if for 2011.

[Beebe's Kid]

Quick question for those building this "strong" case against Brohm....

 

What do you suggest we do? Just cut him based on the glaring evidence you have compiled against him? The guy was a stud a Louisville, and while you're quick to point out that he was the highest pick cut the quickest blah blah blah...he was a 2nd round pick.

 

Is your case that you would really not see him? Otherwise your constant pissing and moaning is even more ridiculous than I could have imagined.

 

Dean...you get back on your meds, or what? Your posts the last couple days haven't been the standard grammar correction, and not only that, but they have been lucid thoughts very much in line with my own. Good insight.

[Alphadawg7]

You're right, the only evidence will be when he gets on the field. However, teams make decisions all the time about guys who have had a lot less playing time than Brohm has had in preseason & his one regular season game and haven't made a mistake on a high profile QB yet. So, yes in a court of law, a prosecutor would have no case in "The trial of Brian Brohm's NFL career". But there's enough of a statistical sample for a statitician to conclude that the statistical chance of Brohm being a successful NFL QB, based on the success of prior NFL QBs waived, is close to zero percent.

 

Seriously, you must go to a rival school to Louisville or something...or maybe he stole your girl or something, because I have never scene someone b*tch and moan about an unproven player as much as you. I have never scene someone so intent on a top prospect to fail before.

 

WE GET IT DUDE! You like to look at this as illogicially as necessary to prove he is a bust before he ever steps in as our starter. I love so much how you comepletely ignore all of our staffs positives comments, including Chan saying he showed them enough to believe they can develop him and thats what they are doing. Hey, if Brohm had 2 years starting and blew, I would say rant on...but you want to condemn the kid before he has even gotten his feet wet.

 

Whether you like it or not, Chan (who has a proven track record of working with QB's compared to your Madden resume) likes the kid and sees potential. No one on here cares that you (a guy who isnt in the film sessions, at practice, etc) dont see it. You made your point about 1000 times now, so dont you think its about time to parcipate is some other topics until Brohm either shuts you up on the field or proves you right?

[The Dean]

 

Dean...you get back on your meds, or what? Your posts the last couple days haven't been the standard grammar correction, and not only that, but they have been lucid thoughts very much in line with my own. Good insight.

 

 

I'm an enigma.