Roger Clemens

[first_and_ten]

On a seperate topic, if anyone cares

 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...ml?hpid=topnews

[tbonestake]

What an unfortunate fall from grace. Clemens really screwed himself and his career by doing this. He can kiss the HOF goodbye! Hasn't he learned anything from Pete Rose? It's sad to think that Clemens will be traveling around with autograph shows just like Charlie Hustle pleading his case to get into the Hall.

[dwight in philly]

What an unfortunate fall from grace. Clemens really screwed himself and his career by doing this. He can kiss the HOF goodbye! Hasn't he learned anything from Pete Rose? It's sad to think that Clemens will be traveling around with autograph shows just like Charlie Hustle pleading his case to get into the Hall.

i really thought at the time that he was being an arrogant jerk before congress. one certainly didnt have to be columbo to know that he was lying, just mildly surprised the FEDS are actually going after him..

[The Senator]

Meh, he was an a-hole when he was with the Red Sox and, by definition, an even bigger a-hole when he was a Yankee.

 

(Don't think he was juicin', tho, while he was in Boston and Toronto.)

[PushthePile]

Meh, he was an a-hole when he was with the Red Sox and, by definition, an even bigger a-hole when he was a Yankee.

 

(Don't think he was juicin', tho, while he was in Boston and Toronto.)

Gotta disagree. Clemens began juicin' in a Blue Jay uniform. The rest is pretty accurate though.

[ajzepp]

He's in some DEEEEEP doodoo

[erynthered]

Marion Jones went to Jail for this kinda schit.

 

 

Bye Bye Roger.

[BuffaloBill]

What an unfortunate fall from grace. Clemens really screwed himself and his career by doing this. He can kiss the HOF goodbye! Hasn't he learned anything from Pete Rose? It's sad to think that Clemens will be traveling around with autograph shows just like Charlie Hustle pleading his case to get into the Hall.

 

 

Agreed but perhaps others will learn from the example. The problem with sports is that there is far too much money on the line for athletes not to play "try to catch me" when it comes to drug usage.

[thebug]

Couldn't happen to a nicer .

[ExiledInIllinois]

How much is this gonna cost? The scumbag legal profession and pols are sucking our society dry. Now I can see if the cost was relatively cheap... But that won't be the case... What's it gonna be? 10's of millions of dollars?

[boyst]

Who gets in the HOF first, Roger Clemens or Pete Rose? If Clemens makes it before Rose I will never watch a single game again...and I like the Yankees.

[HopsGuy]

How much is this gonna cost? The scumbag legal profession and pols are sucking our society dry. Now I can see if the cost was relatively cheap... But that won't be the case... What's it gonna be? 10's of millions of dollars?

 

Agreed. Just how inept is the Justice Department? They can't get indictments for real crimes when they have cooperative witnesses (see Stewart, Martha), so they get them for "obstruction of justice" which, I mean c'mon, that's just BS.

 

Maybe if they had hundreds of millions they'd be able to do this without that crutch of a charge? Of course, we needed that money to bailout the other crooks.

 

Awesome.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Who gets in the HOF first, Roger Clemens or Pete Rose? If Clemens makes it before Rose I will never watch a single game again...and I like the Yankees.

 

Neither gets into the HOF. Neither deserves to. Both should, though.

[The Dean]

Neither gets into the HOF. Neither deserves to. Both should, though.

 

 

I have no problem with either or both being eligible for the ballet...but ONLY if ALL the evidence against them is released. From what I understand baseball buried a lot of damaging stuff on Rose when he made the deal with Giamatti. I don't think baseball wants that info public, either.

[The Senator]

I have no problem with either or both being eligible for the ballet...but ONLY if ALL the evidence against them is released. From what I understand baseball buried a lot of damaging stuff on Rose when he made the deal with Giamatti. I don't think baseball wants that info public, either.

I didn't even know that either one of them could dance.

[The Dean]

I didn't even know that either one of them could dance.

 

[DC Tom]

Neither gets into the HOF. Neither deserves to. Both should, though.

 

If Clemens doesn't deserve to, then no one from the past 20 years deserves to. While against the rules, it's not an "unfair advantage" if everyone else is taking advantage of it, too.

 

And I heard an interesting point made yesterday: the only way Clemens could avoid these charges is by admitting he used steroids, whether he actually used them or not. Think about it...presume, for argument's sake, that he didn't use. Does anyone really think he wouldn't be charged with "lying to Congress" in that case anyway?

 

Pisses me off, too, that "lying to Congress" is a crime...why isn't their lying to us a crime as well?

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

If Clemens doesn't deserve to, then no one from the past 20 years deserves to. While against the rules, it's not an "unfair advantage" if everyone else is taking advantage of it, too.

 

And I heard an interesting point made yesterday: the only way Clemens could avoid these charges is by admitting he used steroids, whether he actually used them or not. Think about it...presume, for argument's sake, that he didn't use. Does anyone really think he wouldn't be charged with "lying to Congress" in that case anyway?

 

Pisses me off, too, that "lying to Congress" is a crime...why isn't their lying to us a crime as well?

 

Yeah, my point was that Clemens should be a hall of famer based on his career, but IMO he's surrendered his right to say that he deserves it.

[Beerball]

What an unfortunate fall from grace. Clemens really screwed himself and his career by doing this. He can kiss the HOF goodbye! Hasn't he learned anything from Pete Rose? It's sad to think that Clemens will be traveling around with autograph shows just like Charlie Hustle pleading his case to get into the Hall.

I don't think you would call what someone did of their own volition and with full knowledge of the consequences if caught unfortunate. Stupid, yes; arrogant, yes, but not unfortunate.

 

(and he's not alone, he simply has allegedly been caught)

[Beerball]

Neither gets into the HOF. Neither deserves to. Both should, though.

paraphrasing:

Neither will get into the HOF.

 

Neither deserves to get into the HOF.

 

Both should what though?

 

Sorry, can't make heads or tails of what you're trying to say.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

paraphrasing:

Neither will get into the HOF.

 

Neither deserves to get into the HOF.

 

Both should what though?

 

Sorry, can't make heads or tails of what you're trying to say.

 

Ok I guess it was confusing to a few people haha. What I mean is both SHOULD be hall of famers based on their career resumes. But from a human standpoint, I don't feel sorry for either guy's tarnished legacy. Break the rules, you don't deserve anything.

 

In other words, they'd get my vote based on my own interpretation of "greatness", but I can't knock anybody who doesn't vote for them.

[DC Tom]

Yeah, my point was that Clemens should be a hall of famer based on his career, but IMO he's surrendered his right to say that he deserves it.

 

I know...my point was that if you're going to make his illegal substance use a factor, you'd have to exclude almost everyone else from the past 20 years.

 

Personally, I don't think it should be an issue, because use was so prevalent through the league that he hardly had an unfair advantage (and what's more, the league chose to look the other way then, so why punish him now?) You're certainly welcome to disagree...as long as you recognize that the argument can apply to most other superstars of Clemens' era.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

I know...my point was that if you're going to make his illegal substance use a factor, you'd have to exclude almost everyone else from the past 20 years.

 

Personally, I don't think it should be an issue, because use was so prevalent through the league that he hardly had an unfair advantage (and what's more, the league chose to look the other way then, so why punish him now?) You're certainly welcome to disagree...as long as you recognize that the argument can apply to most other superstars of Clemens' era.

 

Like I said, I'd personally vote Clemens into the hall as well, along with Bonds and A-Rod. I just recognize that they're each complicit in their own demise, no matter how many others were using.

 

The sticking point, unfortunately, is that we just don't know the extent of the use. It could be 75% of players like some have suggested, or it could be a more modest 25%. I'd lean closer to the larger extreme, but we just don't know. So, pretty much all we have to go on is that the guys who DID get caught are guilty. I think that's the perspective that a lot of voters are using.

[Pete]

I recall Clemens pitching in a playoff (world series?) game early in his career for the Sox. He came out in war paint and screamed at the ump whenever he called a ball. I believe he was thrown out in the second inning. I would wager money that he was on roids back then. That performance was pure roid rage IMO

[The Dean]

I recall Clemens pitching in a playoff (world series?) game early in his career for the Sox. He came out in war paint and screamed at the ump whenever he called a ball. I believe he was thrown out in the second inning. I would wager money that he was on roids back then. That performance was pure roid rage IMO

 

 

I was at that game. It was an ALCS game in Oakland (if this is the one you are referring to). It was total BS, IMO, and I'm not a big Roger fan. We had great seats and had no idea what had happened. Whatever Roger did to get tossed was not evident from the stands. He must have whispered "I ass bumped your wife last night" to the ump, because I can't think of anything else that would have justified an ejection in that kind of game, if it wasn't blatant enough to see from my seat.

 

Now, after getting tossed, he went a bit nuts. But I understand that.

[Cugalabanza]

I heard on the radio some of Clemens' testimony replayed. The part where he's going on about, "If I'm guilty of anything, it's being too nice of a guy..."

 

What a total crotch eating ass monkey. I always thought of him as a dick and now I know I was right. Arrogance like this is unbelievable. I hope he gets serious jail time. Douchecock!

[thebug]

I heard on the radio some of Clemens' testimony replayed. The part where he's going on about, "If I'm guilty of anything, it's being too nice of a guy..."

 

What a total crotch eating ass monkey. I always thought of him as a dick and now I know I was right. Arrogance like this is unbelievable. I hope he gets serious jail time. Douchecock!

 

 

 

 

Just about spit my beer out.