Need to win 12 games or totally flame out

[BennieAnderson]

The problem with the Bills is that we are never bad enough to get good. 6-10 to 8-8 keeps us picking in the middle of the first. I either want us to win 12 games this year or win 2. If we play ourself out of getting Mallet, Locker, or Luck because Gailey manages to win 7 games the vicious cycle will continue and we will never get any better. If he strikes gold and finds a way to win 12....fine. If we can't do that then here is to 2-14 and a brighter future.

[KD in CA]

So are you an optimist or pessimist?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

The problem with the Bills is that we are never bad enough to get good. 6-10 to 8-8 keeps us picking in the middle of the first. I either want us to win 12 games this year or win 2. If we play ourself out of getting Mallet, Locker, or Luck because Gailey manages to win 7 games the vicious cycle will continue and we will never get any better. If he strikes gold and finds a way to win 12....fine. If we can't do that then here is to 2-14 and a brighter future.

It's not an either/or proposition.

 

The Steelers and Patriots didn't need to go 2-14 to turn their teams around.

 

The Bills can enjoy a good building block season, finish around .500, and still improve the following season.

 

People act as if there's only one template for success.

[Bill from NYC]

So are you an optimist or pessimist?

 

LOL

[nucci]

The problem with the Bills is that we are never bad enough to get good. 6-10 to 8-8 keeps us picking in the middle of the first. I either want us to win 12 games this year or win 2. If we play ourself out of getting Mallet, Locker, or Luck because Gailey manages to win 7 games the vicious cycle will continue and we will never get any better. If he strikes gold and finds a way to win 12....fine. If we can't do that then here is to 2-14 and a brighter future.

Ask Detroit, Tampa, and the Rams how this is working out for them.

[ChasBB]

It's not an either/or proposition.

 

The Steelers and Patriots didn't need to go 2-14 to turn their teams around.

 

The Bills can enjoy a good building block season, finish around .500, and still improve the following season.

 

People act as if there's only one template for success.

Absolutely agree. Many ways to succeed. Having the #3 pick and taking Mike Williams was not one of them. So many good players to be had in the later rounds and even with undrafted free agents. It's just finding them. Some teams are good at that and some not. I think Buffalo is switching from a team that was bad at that to a team that is once again good at it. Only time will tell.

[Wing Man]

Bring the marshmellows.

[evilcape]

and you can always package picks to trade up and get the player you want? rooting for your team to lose for draft position is just a pathetic way of looking at things

[PromoTheRobot]

We are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year...

 

PTR

[Buftex]

It's not an either/or proposition.

 

The Steelers and Patriots didn't need to go 2-14 to turn their teams around.

 

The Bills can enjoy a good building block season, finish around .500, and still improve the following season.

People act as if there's only one template for success.

 

 

Amongst those people, are the Bills brain-trust.

[Thurman#1]

We are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year...

 

PTR

 

 

You know what, PTR? When you compare our W-L record over the last ten years to every other team's and you discover we're in the bottom two or three teams, then yeah, we are absolutely one of the worst teams in football over the last ten years.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Bennie where is Deluca and what have you done with him!

 

[Steely Dan]

It's not an either/or proposition.

 

The Steelers and Patriots didn't need to go 2-14 to turn their teams around.

 

The Bills can enjoy a good building block season, finish around .500, and still improve the following season.

 

People act as if there's only one template for success.

 

 

Ask Detroit, Tampa, and the Rams how this is working out for them.

 

 

Absolutely agree. Many ways to succeed. Having the #3 pick and taking Mike Williams was not one of them. So many good players to be had in the later rounds and even with undrafted free agents. It's just finding them. Some teams are good at that and some not. I think Buffalo is switching from a team that was bad at that to a team that is once again good at it. Only time will tell.

 

 

and you can always package picks to trade up and get the player you want? rooting for your team to lose for draft position is just a pathetic way of looking at things

 

What they said.

[Beerball]

So are you an optimist or pessimist?

I believe that I'm a realistic optimist. I would like for nothing more than to be able to shout from the rooftops that the Bills have what it takes to compete, but the realist in me makes that impossible.

 

i guess i'm a bad, bad fan

[KD in CA]

I believe that I'm a realistic optimist. I would like for nothing more than to be able to shout from the rooftops that the Bills have what it takes to compete, but the realist in me makes that impossible.

 

i guess i'm a bad, bad fan

 

 

Not just a bad, bad fan, but apparently a bad, bad human being as well. Oh what a pathetic wretch, ye non-optimist be!

[silvermike]

So if the Bills are 9-6 and playing for a playoff spot in Week 17, you'd say "Screw this, the season's a waste, let's just lose and draft in the top 20?"

[Rob's House]

So if the Bills are 9-6 and playing for a playoff spot in Week 17, you'd say "Screw this, the season's a waste, let's just lose and draft in the top 20?"

 

You are aware that franchise QBs are only found with the first 5 picks aren't you?

[profile]

So if the Bills are 9-6 and playing for a playoff spot in Week 17, you'd say "Screw this, the season's a waste, let's just lose and draft in the top 20?"

 

Based upon the OP's original statement... yup... it'd 12 wins or bust...

 

PTR.... you forgot to add..."without a real coach and QB we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football, yet without...."

[BennieAnderson]

Based upon the OP's original statement... yup... it'd 12 wins or bust...

 

PTR.... you forgot to add..."without a real coach and QB we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football, yet without...."

 

 

I'm saying become a real team that wins serious games (divisional) and has a real record or pick someone next year that can change it. If they want to finish 7-9 and then trade up into the top 5 to get a QB....fine. I guess they don't have to finish with a terrible record to do that. Someone would have to tell me the last time the Bills traded up to do something like that because I am pretty sure it is never. I am not rooting for them to loose, I am rooting for them to get better.

[profile]

Someone would have to tell me the last time the Bills traded up to do something like that because I am pretty sure it is never.

 

 

Ever heard of this guy? This is the wrong board to be pretty sure.

 

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/team/roster/jp...4-3bcf72d7cb3c/

[BennieAnderson]

Ever heard of this guy? This is the wrong board to be pretty sure.

 

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/team/roster/jp...4-3bcf72d7cb3c/

 

I am pretty sure he wasn't top 5 and I am pretty sure that is what I said.

[PromoTheRobot]

You know what, PTR? When you compare our W-L record over the last ten years to every other team's and you discover we're in the bottom two or three teams, then yeah, we are absolutely one of the worst teams in football over the last ten years.

And yet every year we pick between #8 and #11. Why is that???

 

PTR

[JohnC]

We are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year yet we are the worst team in football yet we keep winning 6-7 games a year...

 

PTR

 

The Bills are simply consistently mediocre. That is not something to be proud of. In a system designed for parity we can't even climb the ladder to being average. That is an embarrassment.

[BennieAnderson]

The Bills are simply consistently mediocre. That is not something to be proud of. In a system designed for parity we can't even climb the ladder to being average. That is an embarrassment.

 

 

That is the point I am trying to make. If I had to choose between watching the vicious cycle of average football continue or watch a complete disaster season that would at least put us in position to draft a QB that could turn things around I am taking the disaster season. There are all different teams that have found all different ways to win.....we all know that the Patriots took Brady in the bottom of the draft, NO traded for Brees, Colts drafted Manning 1st overall, Baltimore and TB won with defense, etc, etc. I don't know which way is best....I just know that the way the Bills have done things the last 10 years has failed. If Gailey has a magic wand and somehow makes us a contender then fine. If not, lets officially bottom out so we can get a player that will really make an impact.

[Beerball]

And yet every year we pick between #8 and #11. Why is that???

 

PTR

Consistent lower mediocrity.

[milehiLou]

That is the point I am trying to make. If I had to choose between watching the vicious cycle of average football continue or watch a complete disaster season that would at least put us in position to draft a QB that could turn things around I am taking the disaster season. There are all different teams that have found all different ways to win.....we all know that the Patriots took Brady in the bottom of the draft, NO traded for Brees, Colts drafted Manning 1st overall, Baltimore and TB won with defense, etc, etc. I don't know which way is best....I just know that the way the Bills have done things the last 10 years has failed. If Gailey has a magic wand and somehow makes us a contender then fine. If not, lets officially bottom out so we can get a player that will really make an impact.

just remember that ryan leaf was drafted second overall . otherwise, david gerrard, akili smith and joey harrington, tim couch and michael vick would have something to say about being good and a top pick, as would david carr, alex smith, vince young and jamarcus russell.

 

not saying there is no way to land a great starting nfl signal caller in the top five picks of the draft, i am saying it is far from a sure thing

 

what would jim kelly have done without the usfl? it was the perfect warmup for him as a first rounder (14th overall, buffalos second first round pick *tony hunter went at 12)

[Hossage]

I would take a well coached, solid season where we dont quit, players develop in a positive environment rather than a total disaster and draft picks.

[Rob's House]

I am pretty sure he wasn't top 5 and I am pretty sure that is what I said.

Exactly, as previously stated you're not going to find a good QB outside of the top 5.

 

What do Drew Brees, Brett Favre, Joe Flacco, Aaron Rogers, Tom Brady, Matt Shaub, Big Ben, and Matt Hasselbeck all have in common? Top 5 picks, that's what.

[silvermike]

Just for a quick survey: of the starting NFL QBs

 

Could have drafted/signed as a UFA at some point: Tom Brady***, Chad Henne, Jake Delhomme, Joe Flacco, David Garrard, Matt Schaub, Kyle Orton, Matt Cassel, Tony Romo, Kevin Kolb, Brett Favre*, Jay Cutler, Aaron Rodgers, Jimmy Clausen, Josh Freeman, Drew Brees*, Matt Leinart, Matt Hasselbeck

 

Needed a top-5 pick: Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning*, Vince Young, Philip Rivers, Donovan McNabb, Eli Manning*, Matt Stafford, Matt Ryan, Alex Smith, Sam Bradford.

 

Could have drafted, if we hadn't traded away our pick/overperformed: Ben Roethlisberger**, Jason Campbell.

 

*s are for Super Bowl wins.

[DrFishfinder]

The problem with the Bills is that we are never bad enough to get good. 6-10 to 8-8 keeps us picking in the middle of the first. I either want us to win 12 games this year or win 2. If we play ourself out of getting Mallet, Locker, or Luck because Gailey manages to win 7 games the vicious cycle will continue and we will never get any better. If he strikes gold and finds a way to win 12....fine. If we can't do that then here is to 2-14 and a brighter future.

So are you saying that unless the Bills get Mallet, Locker or Luck (sound like a law firm), they won't get any better?

[DrFishfinder]

I would take a well coached, solid season where we dont quit, players develop in a positive environment rather than a total disaster and draft picks.

add me to that list.

[BillsPhan]

The problem with the Bills is that we are never bad enough to get good. 6-10 to 8-8 keeps us picking in the middle of the first. I either want us to win 12 games this year or win 2. If we play ourself out of getting Mallet, Locker, or Luck because Gailey manages to win 7 games the vicious cycle will continue and we will never get any better. If he strikes gold and finds a way to win 12....fine. If we can't do that then here is to 2-14 and a brighter future.

 

Did you know that there are more ways for an NFL team to win a Super Bowl then to draft the best QB with a top 5 pick? Take this past years' SB winners for example. I did a little drafting research nine years back to 2001, the Bills first draft held by Tom Donahoe. From 2001 thru 2009, the Bills picked before the Saints 5 times, and after them only 4 times. During those 9 years, the Saints did have 3 top 10 picks, while the Bills only had 1, which lends some credibility to your point, but the Saints never picked a QB with any of their 3 top 10 picks. Of course we all know Donahoe busted out with Mike Williams at number 4 in 2002. Here's the worst part: During those 9 years, the Bills averaged the number 12.88 pick in round one, while the 2009-2010 SB winning New Orleans Saints averaged the number 13.67 pick in round one.

 

Yes, the Bills averaged a higher first round pick per season then the Saints, over the past 9 seasons, which is more then enough drafts to build yourself from a door mat to a SB champion. And neither team drafted the best QB available at any of their number one picks, from 2001 thru 2009.

[JohnC]

That is the point I am trying to make. If I had to choose between watching the vicious cycle of average football continue or watch a complete disaster season that would at least put us in position to draft a QB that could turn things around I am taking the disaster season. There are all different teams that have found all different ways to win.....we all know that the Patriots took Brady in the bottom of the draft, NO traded for Brees, Colts drafted Manning 1st overall, Baltimore and TB won with defense, etc, etc. I don't know which way is best....I just know that the way the Bills have done things the last 10 years has failed. If Gailey has a magic wand and somehow makes us a contender then fine. If not, lets officially bottom out so we can get a player that will really make an impact.

 

This is the age of the cap, free agency and constant player movements. Teams which are successful know how to draft well, no matter where they are drafting from, and how to value players and contracts.

 

Baltimore, indisputably, drafts better than the Bills and yet they almost always draft after us. Flacco is a franchise qb who was drafted in the lower first round. In fact, the Ravens made a move similar to our Losman move in maneuvering back into the first round in order to get their franchise qb in Flacco. While the Bills drafted Maybin with our high first pick the Ravens drafted OT Ohrer with a lower first round pick. Which team got better value?

 

The Bills have historically been a dismal team not because they haven't bottomed out but because their organization (ownership-front office-coaching staff) have been very lackluster.

 

There is no one magic bullet (player) in getting better. A successfull franchise is not necessarily an organization which is in position to get the one supposedly magical player, it is an organization which knows how to build a good team from top to bottom.

 

Where was Brees drafted? Not the first round. Where was Favre drafted? Not the first round. Where was Brady drafted? Not the first round. Roethlisberger wasn't taken in the top of the draft. How many can't miss prospects were taken high in the first round?

 

The biggest flaw in our organization's standard approach when drafting was focusing on the skill positions at the expense of the OL and DL positions. This clown organization accentuated the skill positions (perimeter players) when they should have priortized the trenches on both sides of the ball. Hopefully, there will be less of that misguided mentality under Nix.

 

The main point I am stressing is that where we draft has little to do with our mediocrity. It is how you draft at the point you are drafting that explains why the Bills have been bad for so long. So much attention is given to a team's first pick when it is just as important, if not moreso, that the quality of your other picks is just as critical in building a quality team.

[Bill from NYC]

This is the age of the cap, free agency and constant player movements. Teams which are successful know how to draft well, no matter where they are drafting from, and how to value players and contracts.

 

Baltimore, indisputably, drafts better than the Bills and yet they almost always draft after us. Flacco is a franchise qb who was drafted in the lower first round. In fact, the Ravens made a move similar to our Losman move in maneuvering back into the first round in order to get their franchise qb in Flacco. While the Bills drafted Maybin with our high first pick the Ravens drafted OT Ohrer with a lower first round pick. Which team got better value?

 

The Bills have historically been a dismal team not because they haven't bottomed out but because their organization (ownership-front office-coaching staff) have been very lackluster.

 

There is no one magic bullet (player) in getting better. A successfull franchise is not necessarily an organization which is in position to get the one supposedly magical player, it is an organization which knows how to build a good team from top to bottom.

 

Where was Brees drafted? Not the first round. Where was Favre drafted? Not the first round. Where was Brady drafted? Not the first round. Roethlisberger wasn't taken in the top of the draft. How many can't miss prospects were taken high in the first round?

 

The biggest flaw in our organization's standard approach when drafting was focusing on the skill positions at the expense of the OL and DL positions. This clown organization accentuated the skill positions (perimeter players) when they should have priortized the trenches on both sides of the ball. Hopefully, there will be less of that misguided mentality under Nix.

 

The main point I am stressing is that where we draft has little to do with our mediocrity. It is how you draft at the point you are drafting that explains why the Bills have been bad for so long. So much attention is given to a team's first pick when it is just as important, if not moreso, that the quality of your other picks is just as critical in building a quality team.

 

This post should be pinned.

[JohnC]

This post should be pinned.

 

I'm sure many readers believe my post and other bulky materials should be forceably shoved in my lower aperture. LOL

[Bill from NYC]

I'm sure many readers believe my post and other bulky materials should be forceably shoved in my lower aperture. LOL

 

The truth is that yours was a great summary. The Bills have drafted like idiots for many years. They focused on running backs and of course defensive backs at the expense of the lines, and this resulted in having a weak team that nobody fears. It even flew in the face of home field advantage.

 

This is why this optimist/pessimist nonsense is so annoying. We watched them make the same mistakes over and over. Now, should we suddenly expect things to change? The thing is, things might improve. It could happen, but once again we have absolutely horrid OTs, this after managing to trade away the one good one that was on the roster.

 

Spiller is going to need help under any circumstances, as will our quarterback. I hope it works.

[PromoTheRobot]

Mediocre, not terrible. Mediocre means to be in the middle. You can also look at it as the Bills consistently 2-3 wins short of the playoffs. That is not a big hill to climb.

 

PTR

[BennieAnderson]

So are you saying that unless the Bills get Mallet, Locker or Luck (sound like a law firm), they won't get any better?

 

 

I am saying a franchise QB will give us a better chance to become a legit contender. (Hardly a prolific statement.) We might get better without finding a franchise QB....but what is better...9-7? No thanks. Been there. Maybe Gailey turns Edwards into the next Drew Brees who was not great his first 3-4 years. But assuming what we have seen to date is what we get in the future....there are three franchise QBs coming out next year and I hope the Bills get one. Just because they don't always work out doesn't mean we should be scared to take the shot.

 

Isn't there anyone else who is sick of seeing the 135yrd, 1TD, 2 INT stat line all season? Or am I the only one who thinks our offense is a complete joke? Have we been watching the same team?

[JohnC]

I am saying a franchise QB will give us a better chance to become a legit contender. (Hardly a prolific statement.) We might get better without finding a franchise QB....but what is better...9-7? No thanks. Been there. Maybe Gailey turns Edwards into the next Drew Brees who was not great his first 3-4 years. But assuming what we have seen to date is what we get in the future....there are three franchise QBs coming out next year and I hope the Bills get one. Just because they don't always work out doesn't mean we should be scared to take the shot.

 

Isn't there anyone else who is sick of seeing the 135yrd, 1TD, 2 INT stat line all season? Or am I the only one who thinks our offense is a complete joke? Have we been watching the same team?

 

You act as if drafting a highly rated college qb is a guarantee for actually getting an impact NFL franchise qb. The record demonstrably shows that getting a highly rated qb doesn't necessarily translate into the miracle player you so much covet.

 

David Carr was rated as a top franchise qb. He hasn't fulfilled that lofty expectation. Eric Couch was another player who was drafted very high in the first round and didn't come close to being what was hoped for. Are you aware that Brohm was considered a high number one draft pick when he was a junior? Are you aware that Snead from Ole Miss was also considered a high first round draft pick in his junior year? I'm not sure he was even drafted. The qbs you now covet in college can flame out before they even get drafted. The way to increase the odds of drafting a qb and having him succeed is to put that prospective qb in a position to succeed. Simply put, if you have a quality OL in place prior to the qb's arrival the better chance that qb has to be a success.

 

The excessive attention to the qb issue is a smokescreen to the reality of the Bills' situation. While everyone gets emotional about who our qb should be what is not addressed is the bigger issue: The roster is relatively hollow. How many playmakers do we really have on offense and defense? How good are the OL and DL?

 

The argument that the team needs to flame out in order to get a viable franchise qb is ludicrous. The best way to have sustained success is to increase the talent base for the whole roster. The Bills have a long way to go to before they have a viable chance to be competitive and be be taken seriously. Squandering draft picks and making foolish personnel decisions have set this franchise back for years. Now this team is trying to catch up to the point that it can be an average team.

[JohnC]

Mediocre, not terrible. Mediocre means to be in the middle. You can also look at it as the Bills consistently 2-3 wins short of the playoffs. That is not a big hill to climb.

 

PTR

 

The Bills are by far the worst team in its own division. That is not a hill, it is a rugged mountain. The Bills are not close to being a playoff team. No one who is serious can make that claim. I defy you to find an outside analyst who considers the Bills to be a serious playoff contender.