Buffalonian-at-Heart Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 This is a post about why the Bills shouldn't and can't trade for or sign Big Name free agents: Signing guys like McNeil and Jackson just aren't possibilities for the Bills. Both guys are in the middle of contract disgruntlement. Hypothetically lets say the Bills call their agents and say we will trade for your clients and offer long term contracts paying them among the highest in the league if not the highest. Have we not learned from McNabb? The agent will say no, we have several other teams that he'd rather go to offering the same scenario. High profile free agents aren't coming to Buffalo folks and it's not because of the weather. It's because we have a reputation as an organization that doesn't know what their doing. Anyone that knows me from my posts, I am not a Bills basher, I just believe this to be our current reality. I think Nix understands that not only is it a good strategy to build through the draft it is also our only viable option (for now). The days of overpaying for mid level free agents like Dockery are over, under Nix. They were very clear we will begin to build through the draft and sign depth type players in free agency. They have done exactly that and you know what? Nix knew that was his only option, and I for one think he's smart for realizing it. You know admitting what you are is a strong quality. Look at the Chargers, in 2004 Eli would not go there. Now they have created a culture of winning and can add pieces through free agency. The problem with the Bills is they have not built through the draft, been active in free agency with players that haven't gotten them over the proverbial hump because the foundation wasn't there. And if you keep trading draft picks to get players the foundation never will be. When this team is ready to sign free agents or trade and sign players, they will. It's just not the right strategy now. Nix and Gailey need to evaluate what they have this year and go to step two of the rebuilding process. The Bills have to win, then the free agents will come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Boiled down, I think this is pretty accurate. Many will bash this as the Bill's are too cheap to sign top FAs or that FA won't come here because we suck. I just think a big name FA wants to go to a conender and that, for now, ain't us. So your basic premise is true, FA's won't come here as our FO hasn't shown we know what we are doing for more than a decade. I happen to think that is changing now. Nix is doing it right and the slow build of a team with a solid core is what will win for us. Stay the course Buddy and damn the torpedoes of those who what big name FA's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 I'm of the opinion that big name free agent signings fail more often than help a team. You can point to Brett Favre and say it works, but you can also point to Albert Haynesworth. I think there are far more Haynesworth's than Favre's. The big money spoils a lot of players. The best teams are built through the draft. All free agents do is give the fans something to drool about and the football pundits something to talk about. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hossage Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 You mean, Wilson has to die and the new management demonstrate they are competent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastRochBillsfan Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 This is a post about why the Bills shouldn't and can't trade for or sign Big Name free agents: Signing guys like McNeil and Jackson just aren't possibilities for the Bills. Both guys are in the middle of contract disgruntlement. Hypothetically lets say the Bills call their agents and say we will trade for your clients and offer long term contracts paying them among the highest in the league if not the highest. Have we not learned from McNabb? The agent will say no, we have several other teams that he'd rather go to offering the same scenario. High profile free agents aren't coming to Buffalo folks and it's not because of the weather. It's because we have a reputation as an organization that doesn't know what their doing. Anyone that knows me from my posts, I am not a Bills basher, I just believe this to be our current reality. I think Nix understands that not only is it a good strategy to build through the draft it is also our only viable option (for now). The days of overpaying for mid level free agents like Dockery are over, under Nix. They were very clear we will begin to build through the draft and sign depth type players in free agency. They have done exactly that and you know what? Nix knew that was his only option, and I for one think he's smart for realizing it. You know admitting what you are is a strong quality. Look at the Chargers, in 2004 Eli would not go there. Now they have created a culture of winning and can add pieces through free agency. The problem with the Bills is they have not built through the draft, been active in free agency with players that haven't gotten them over the proverbial hump because the foundation wasn't there. And if you keep trading draft picks to get players the foundation never will be. When this team is ready to sign free agents or trade and sign players, they will. It's just not the right strategy now. Nix and Gailey need to evaluate what they have this year and go to step two of the rebuilding process. The Bills have to win, then the free agents will come. I have to partially disagree with you. I do feel we are not the most desirable place to come to, mainly for the weather(it IS a factor) and the city not being the most fun place to be.(just ask McGahee!) I mean, if YOU had you choice between Miami and Buffalo, where would you go? no brainer. But I don't think we have as bad a rep to the players and coaches around the league as one would think. We will definitely be more desirable once we get better and bring back the old Bills winning ways, but in the end money does talk, and if the money is right for a free agent NOT near the end of his career, I think they would sign on the dotted line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperKillerRobots Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 This is a post about why the Bills shouldn't and can't trade for or sign Big Name free agents: Signing guys like McNeil and Jackson just aren't possibilities for the Bills. Both guys are in the middle of contract disgruntlement. Hypothetically lets say the Bills call their agents and say we will trade for your clients and offer long term contracts paying them among the highest in the league if not the highest. Have we not learned from McNabb? The agent will say no, we have several other teams that he'd rather go to offering the same scenario. High profile free agents aren't coming to Buffalo folks and it's not because of the weather. It's because we have a reputation as an organization that doesn't know what their doing. Anyone that knows me from my posts, I am not a Bills basher, I just believe this to be our current reality. I think Nix understands that not only is it a good strategy to build through the draft it is also our only viable option (for now). The days of overpaying for mid level free agents like Dockery are over, under Nix. They were very clear we will begin to build through the draft and sign depth type players in free agency. They have done exactly that and you know what? Nix knew that was his only option, and I for one think he's smart for realizing it. You know admitting what you are is a strong quality. Look at the Chargers, in 2004 Eli would not go there. Now they have created a culture of winning and can add pieces through free agency. The problem with the Bills is they have not built through the draft, been active in free agency with players that haven't gotten them over the proverbial hump because the foundation wasn't there. And if you keep trading draft picks to get players the foundation never will be. When this team is ready to sign free agents or trade and sign players, they will. It's just not the right strategy now. Nix and Gailey need to evaluate what they have this year and go to step two of the rebuilding process. The Bills have to win, then the free agents will come. I agree with what you're saying because I do think it makes a difference to players that they go to a team with a bright future if possible. That being said, I think the bottom line for any player is money: If you throw enough of it at them, they will play for your team. I think the point you're making is that in order for the Bills to sign FAs to at market or below market deals they are going to have to win football games and look promising. That's basically it in a nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperKillerRobots Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 I have to partially disagree with you. I do feel we are not the most desirable place to come to, mainly for the weather(it IS a factor) and the city not being the most fun place to be.(just ask McGahee!) I mean, if YOU had you choice between Miami and Buffalo, where would you go? no brainer. But I don't think we have as bad a rep to the players and coaches around the league as one would think. We will definitely be more desirable once we get better and bring back the old Bills winning ways, but in the end money does talk, and if the money is right for a free agent NOT near the end of his career, I think they would sign on the dotted line. I also wonder if the state taxes have anything to do with us having trouble getting FAs to come here. I don't think 90% of the players care what city they play football in to the point of taking any less money to play there. I could also see some players - maybe bigger DL/OLs not wanting to play in a hot climate because of their girth and the heat. I guess the bottom line is that it's probably not as clear cut as all we fans think it is and make it out to be. There's probably a lot more thought that goes into it than what we fans, sitting in front of a computer while supposedly working your desk job, can realize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 This is a post about why the Bills shouldn't and can't trade for or sign Big Name free agents: Signing guys like McNeil and Jackson just aren't possibilities for the Bills. Both guys are in the middle of contract disgruntlement. Hypothetically lets say the Bills call their agents and say we will trade for your clients and offer long term contracts paying them among the highest in the league if not the highest. Have we not learned from McNabb? The agent will say no, we have several other teams that he'd rather go to offering the same scenario. High profile free agents aren't coming to Buffalo folks and it's not because of the weather. It's because we have a reputation as an organization that doesn't know what their doing. Anyone that knows me from my posts, I am not a Bills basher, I just believe this to be our current reality. I think Nix understands that not only is it a good strategy to build through the draft it is also our only viable option (for now). The days of overpaying for mid level free agents like Dockery are over, under Nix. They were very clear we will begin to build through the draft and sign depth type players in free agency. They have done exactly that and you know what? Nix knew that was his only option, and I for one think he's smart for realizing it. You know admitting what you are is a strong quality. Look at the Chargers, in 2004 Eli would not go there. Now they have created a culture of winning and can add pieces through free agency. The problem with the Bills is they have not built through the draft, been active in free agency with players that haven't gotten them over the proverbial hump because the foundation wasn't there. And if you keep trading draft picks to get players the foundation never will be. When this team is ready to sign free agents or trade and sign players, they will. It's just not the right strategy now. Nix and Gailey need to evaluate what they have this year and go to step two of the rebuilding process. The Bills have to win, then the free agents will come. Excellent analysis. BTW, even after all its success, SD still doesn't seem to go chasing the biggest free agent signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 You mean, Wilson has to die and the new management demonstrate they are competent. That probably means leaving Buffalo. All the garbage you hear, guys are motivated by money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiemonster Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 I also wonder if the state taxes have anything to do with us having trouble getting FAs to come here. I don't think 90% of the players care what city they play football in to the point of taking any less money to play there. I could also see some players - maybe bigger DL/OLs not wanting to play in a hot climate because of their girth and the heat. I guess the bottom line is that it's probably not as clear cut as all we fans think it is and make it out to be. There's probably a lot more thought that goes into it than what we fans, sitting in front of a computer while supposedly working your desk job, can realize. Have you been spying on me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 I have to partially disagree with you. I do feel we are not the most desirable place to come to, mainly for the weather(it IS a factor) and the city not being the most fun place to be.(just ask McGahee!) I mean, if YOU had you choice between Miami and Buffalo, where would you go? no brainer. But I don't think we have as bad a rep to the players and coaches around the league as one would think. We will definitely be more desirable once we get better and bring back the old Bills winning ways, but in the end money does talk, and if the money is right for a free agent NOT near the end of his career, I think they would sign on the dotted line. What about Green Bay? Minny? Some great weather there--and real cosmopolitan towns! Do they have trouble attracting players? Hmmmmmmmmm. I wonder what it could be...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewHampshireBillsFan Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 I'm of the opinion that big name free agent signings fail more often than help a team. You can point to Brett Favre and say it works, but you can also point to Albert Haynesworth. I think there are far more Haynesworth's than Favre's. The big money spoils a lot of players. The best teams are built through the draft. All free agents do is give the fans something to drool about and the football pundits something to talk about. PTR Totally agree. Signing the best player at his position is always a bad idea because you always overpay and chances are the player won't play quite as well or even gets hurt. The really great players like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning never seem to get to free agency because their teams find a way to retain them if they are that valuable. The kind of FAs we signed this year are the kind that can start for us and help us but are mid level in price. The superstars (like Spiller hopefully) you have to try and draft. Our biggest problem was letting very good players go due to arrogance who were quite affordable such as Ted Washington and Pat Williams, esp. Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 What about Green Bay? Minny? Some great weather there--and real cosmopolitan towns! Do they have trouble attracting players? Hmmmmmmmmm. I wonder what it could be...... when the bills were winning under butler, i heard no negative comments about players playing in buffalo, coming to play in buffalo. it has been a culture of mismanagement that has made the team undesirable for the past decade. i know buffalo is not south beach, but a winning tradition would obviously put on us on an even playing field regarding the perception of actually playing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hossage Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 That probably means leaving Buffalo. All the garbage you hear, guys are motivated by money. Indeed. I wouldnt come to Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Disgruntlement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonian-at-Heart Posted June 30, 2010 Author Share Posted June 30, 2010 I have to partially disagree with you. I do feel we are not the most desirable place to come to, mainly for the weather(it IS a factor) and the city not being the most fun place to be.(just ask McGahee!) I mean, if YOU had you choice between Miami and Buffalo, where would you go? no brainer. But I don't think we have as bad a rep to the players and coaches around the league as one would think. We will definitely be more desirable once we get better and bring back the old Bills winning ways, but in the end money does talk, and if the money is right for a free agent NOT near the end of his career, I think they would sign on the dotted line. I can't believe you think weather is the "main" reason people don't sign with Buffalo. That point just isn't consistent with other bad weather City's that sign and trade for players under contract. Money doesn't talk when your both offering the same money and you don't get the player. This has been even more evident this year, when we couldn't land our top coaches of choice and couldn't convince Mcnabb to come. It isn't because it snows at the tail end of the season in Buffalo. It's because we have a tradition of loosing and poor management. Money has almost nothing to do with it. We could have offered Dansby more money and he wouldn't have signed with us. (yes promo I agree with your assessment of signing over priced free agents, but I'm making a point) The point is he would have gotten the money from several teams, so now its just a matter of choosing where you want to play. There are a plethora of factors higher on the list than weather, even being near your home town would be before that. To even have a chance at quality free agents at this point the Bills have to grossly over pay ie Langston Walker. The players that are signed but in contract disputes won't come either. They are telling the Bills they won't sign an extension if they trade for them, so the Bills can't even get into the trading for players conversation. The only way to change this is to build a team through the draft, pick the right mid level free agents that fit, and start winning. In saying all that I think our current FO and coaching staff can get us there. I believe in what they are doing, I'm just saying it isn't going to be done by signing guys like Mcnabb, Vincent Jackson, or Mcneil. The proof has to come before the pudding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whites Bay Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 I can't believe "Weather" is the primary reason driving a potentially multi-million dollar decision. That's lunacy. If all we ever worried about was weather, we as a species would have never left Olduvai Gorge. Jesus, I mean, buy an L.L. Bean parka and heated seats in the Merc. These guys are, by definition, older and more mature. They're not coming to Western New York straight out of college. They've been around the block, they've played out at least one professional contract, and have become seasoned professionals at their craft. They're going to look at where the team is heading, what the chances are of making the playoffs are for the next three seasons (an average span of a FA contract, or the approximate amount of time they're going to be able to play before blowing a knee), and what kind of money is thrown at them. In that order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 This is a post about why the Bills shouldn't and can't trade for or sign Big Name free agents: Signing guys like McNeil and Jackson just aren't possibilities for the Bills. Both guys are in the middle of contract disgruntlement. Hypothetically lets say the Bills call their agents and say we will trade for your clients and offer long term contracts paying them among the highest in the league if not the highest. Have we not learned from McNabb? The agent will say no, we have several other teams that he'd rather go to offering the same scenario. High profile free agents aren't coming to Buffalo folks and it's not because of the weather. It's because we have a reputation as an organization that doesn't know what their doing. Anyone that knows me from my posts, I am not a Bills basher, I just believe this to be our current reality. I think Nix understands that not only is it a good strategy to build through the draft it is also our only viable option (for now). The days of overpaying for mid level free agents like Dockery are over, under Nix. They were very clear we will begin to build through the draft and sign depth type players in free agency. They have done exactly that and you know what? Nix knew that was his only option, and I for one think he's smart for realizing it. You know admitting what you are is a strong quality. Look at the Chargers, in 2004 Eli would not go there. Now they have created a culture of winning and can add pieces through free agency. The problem with the Bills is they have not built through the draft, been active in free agency with players that haven't gotten them over the proverbial hump because the foundation wasn't there. And if you keep trading draft picks to get players the foundation never will be. When this team is ready to sign free agents or trade and sign players, they will. It's just not the right strategy now. Nix and Gailey need to evaluate what they have this year and go to step two of the rebuilding process. The Bills have to win, then the free agents will come. In McNabb's case, he has already earned, what?, $30 or $40 mill? He doesn't feel urgency about finances the way a guy like McNeill does. This is McNeill and Gaither's second contract. They are going to squeeze every dollar that they can from it. Does the name Takeo Spikes sound familiar? Very few people are in McNabb's position. Spikes came to us after an 8 - 8 season. 95% of all FAs go to whoever offers the most money. The other five percent are out of our reach right now, that's correct. Neither McNeill nor Gaither would turn us down. They'd be on an offer like a dog on filet mignon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Excellent analysis. BTW, even after all its success, SD still doesn't seem to go chasing the biggest free agent signings. The Chargers don't usually pursue high profile free agents because they draft exceptionally well. When a player on their roster leaves through free agency he is oftentimes replaced with one of their own drafted players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 when the bills were winning under butler, i heard no negative comments about players playing in buffalo, coming to play in buffalo. it has been a culture of mismanagement that has made the team undesirable for the past decade. i know buffalo is not south beach, but a winning tradition would obviously put on us on an even playing field regarding the perception of actually playing here. So you're saying that winning might play a factor in getting decent players to Buffalo? Very interesting....you may be on to something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonian-at-Heart Posted July 2, 2010 Author Share Posted July 2, 2010 In McNabb's case, he has already earned, what?, $30 or $40 mill? He doesn't feel urgency about finances the way a guy like McNeill does. This is McNeill and Gaither's second contract. They are going to squeeze every dollar that they can from it. Does the name Takeo Spikes sound familiar? Very few people are in McNabb's position. Spikes came to us after an 8 - 8 season. 95% of all FAs go to whoever offers the most money. The other five percent are out of our reach right now, that's correct. Neither McNeill nor Gaither would turn us down. They'd be on an offer like a dog on filet mignon. I hate to be so blunt, but 95% of all FA's do not go to whoever offers the most money. That just flat out isn't true. I'm not saying it doesn't happen or it isn't a factor, but most free agents have more than one team that will offer them the money, so they go where they have an opportunity to win. That's why most of the bottom teams don't get better. It's a long process to build a team and when you are one of the bottom teams and your draft picks don't pan out, you can't get out of the bottom. Take Detroit for example. They get Calvin Johnson and Stafford and all the sudden free agents come because it appears they are on the up swing. This is EXACTLY what the Bills have to do, and is the philosophy finally of our front office. Draft well, coach up, start building a winner and the free agents to start closing the gaps will come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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