Buddy stated that he wanted a scatback...

[H2o]

Spiller comes out of college with basically no injury concerns whatsoever, Best does not. Being a RB and already having had a couple serious concussions does not bode well for your future outlook in football, IMO. Detroit obviously thinks he can be their guy. We'll see. As far as the skillset goes I think Spiller has better hands than Best. Spiller will be able to line up in the slot and run routes. Not saying that Best can't, but Spiller has shown that he can make an impact even in the passing game. I don't ever recall seeing as much impact in the passing game from Best. Spiller is an accomplished return man. Neither McCluster or Best can touch him on this one. Spiller is clearly better, IMO. If you watch the videos on each of these guys you will see that Spiller is quicker, more shifty, and also can stop then get back into top gear faster than any of these guys. His acceleration is off the charts, like Barry Sanders off the charts if you ask me. I do think all three of these RB's can be effective in the NFL, but I also think we got the best one of the bunch.

[Magox]

At just about the same height, MJD outweighs Sproles by 25+ lbs., and their running styles are completely different. And Reggie Bush ran a 4.33 at his pro day while Spiller ran a 4.37 at the Combine, so I'm not sure how Spiller has more speed. Solid post, otherwise.

Because he ran 4.28 and 4.27 unofficially at the combine.

[Nanker]

One could also ask the question did Jax pick Alualu at 11 because The Bills took Spiller at 10?

Most thought they could have easily picked him up in the 2nd. Perhaps they were shocked that we didn't pick Claussen/Tebow and were set to pick Spiller at 11 and just went with their next highest player in a need position.

There were a number of surprises (as always) on Draft Day 1. The Jints were devastated that Al grabbed McClain with the 8th pick.

 

Clearly Nix got Chan the player he wanted in CJ. Then he set about getting other players that they wanted, i.e., the kind of players that fit the type of things that they're planning on doing and that aren't shy about showing up to work and work hard every day at getting better.

[Green Lightning]

Long thread for naught. This is not that hard to figure out. They wanted Spiller, he was there, everyone had him well ahead of the other running backs and they took him. Story over. As for the quick decision and short time to make the Spiller pick, why not? If there was going to be a deal done, they would have had it done already. Buddy knows what he wanted and he wanted Spiller and not Best. If Best were the better back, Buddy would have no issue reaching to get him (ala Troup) so really, what's so hard to figure about this? Let's play and settle it.

[Bill from NYC]

Yawn...

 

League merchandise is split evenly and has been forever. A jersey sold benefits Dan Snyder as much as it does Ralph Wilson. Unfortunately that doesn't fit into your rant.

 

Thanks for pointing this out.

 

I think that much of discussion isn't about liking the selection. You like it; I do not. I see nothing controversial about that. My question to you isn't about liking the pick. I ask you Scott if you think that this selection was made by Nix or Mr. Wilson? Do you think that winning games was the more of a factor in the Spiller selection than was profit?

 

Obviously, neither of us will ever know for sure. Still, I would love to hear your take on this.

[MRW]

Thanks for pointing this out.

 

I think that much of discussion isn't about liking the selection. You like it; I do not. I see nothing controversial about that. My question to you isn't about liking the pick. I ask you Scott if you think that this selection was made by Nix or Mr. Wilson? Do you think that winning games was the more of a factor in the Spiller selection than was profit?

 

Obviously, neither of us will ever know for sure. Still, I would love to hear your take on this.

If the pick was made at Wilson's behest, I think Buddy would not have been so eager to get the pick in and would've waited a little longer. And everything that's been said since then shows obvious enthusiasm about Spiller from Nix, Gailey, et al.

 

So yes, I think the Spiller pick was entirely about winning games. Frankly, if the interest were selling tickets, why didn't they reach for one of the many QBs on the board at that point?

[Webster Guy]

The best point made is why we didn't we use our ten minutes. I dont care how badly you want your pick, there is always the possibility of someone who wants them more than you and is willing to propose a trade that will help your team more.

 

There is absolutely no downside to waiting until your time is up, but there may be an upside. This seems so obvious, I wonder why someone like Jerry Sullivan (Doctor Doom) wouldn't pose this question to Nix.

[bkc]

Yeah, but I'm really talking about trading out of the pick entirely.

 

If you only have one player of good value when you pick, why not listen to trade offers and trade back to where hopefully there will be several picks representing good value, one of them possibly being a scatback?

 

 

I am a big fan of trading back when rebuilding , but I think buddy read this draft correctly.

[Coach Tuesday]

Best has concussion problems. I'd have taken him off of my board entirely, just too risky to draft a RB who already has concussion problems.

[SDS]

Thanks for pointing this out.

 

I think that much of discussion isn't about liking the selection. You like it; I do not. I see nothing controversial about that. My question to you isn't about liking the pick. I ask you Scott if you think that this selection was made by Nix or Mr. Wilson? Do you think that winning games was the more of a factor in the Spiller selection than was profit?

 

Obviously, neither of us will ever know for sure. Still, I would love to hear your take on this.

 

Let's just breakdown your rant...

 

1. Wilson just wants to sell jerseys!

 

- It sounded good because it was a nice negative statement to demonize the owner, but as I pointed out - it isn't true.

 

2. Wilson made this choice...

 

- So, when our head coach/GM says he wants/needs a dynamic scatback in his offense long before the draft, and our resident insider says the Bills will draft certain linemen if they fall to us at #9, but will take CJ Spiller if the linemen are off the board - you conclude that Ralph Wilson made the selection? How does one actually reply to such an "analysis"?

 

3. Wilson is more concerned about selling tickets than winning!

 

Nice false choice. Draft Spiller and lose or draft the way you want and win. Let's just follow the illogic here. The corollary to your argument is if the Bills win games they would have an empty stadium? So, Ralph needs to avoid winning so he can make money by drawing people to the stadium by losing with gimmick players? The only thing missing in this argument is a Hitler reference.

 

And to continue on with point 3... Think about your "point" for a minute. If Wilson did force the pick of Spiller (he did not) to sell more jerseys (it doesn't work that way), and in order to sell more tickets (this is apparently a bad thing to do) then the overall point you're making is Wilson needs to be chided for putting a product on the field that more people want to watch... What a bastard.

 

Stringing a bunch of negative thoughts together, and repeating them over and over, just because they superficially support your opinion doesn't make a supportive argument. Constantly referring to CJ, who by all accounts seems to be a tremendous person, as a "gimmick" in order to marginalize him before his 1st snap is also rather unfortunate.

 

No one said you had to like his selection, but your argument against it is just poorly thought out.

[Bill from NYC]

Let's just breakdown your rant...

 

1. Wilson just wants to sell jerseys!

 

- It sounded good because it was a nice negative statement to demonize the owner, but as I pointed out - it isn't true.

 

2. Wilson made this choice...

 

- So, when our head coach/GM says he wants/needs a dynamic scatback in his offense long before the draft, and our resident insider says the Bills will draft certain linemen if they fall to us at #9, but will take CJ Spiller if the linemen are off the board - you conclude that Ralph Wilson made the selection? How does one actually reply to such an "analysis"?

 

3. Wilson is more concerned about selling tickets than winning!

 

Nice false choice. Draft Spiller and lose or draft the way you want and win. Let's just follow the illogic here. The corollary to your argument is if the Bills win games they would have an empty stadium? So, Ralph needs to avoid winning so he can make money by drawing people to the stadium by losing with gimmick players? The only thing missing in this argument is a Hitler reference.

 

And to continue on with point 3... Think about your "point" for a minute. If Wilson did force the pick of Spiller (he did not) to sell more jerseys (it doesn't work that way), and in order to sell more tickets (this is apparently a bad thing to do) then the overall point you're making is Wilson needs to be chided for putting a product on the field that more people want to watch... What a bastard.

 

Stringing a bunch of negative thoughts together, and repeating them over and over, just because they superficially support your opinion doesn't make a supportive argument. Constantly referring to CJ, who by all accounts seems to be a tremendous person, as a "gimmick" in order to marginalize him before his 1st snap is also rather unfortunate.

 

No one said you had to like his selection, but your argument against it is just poorly thought out.

 

Scott, you make very good arguments, but this team is losing for a reason, and I view this selection as a continuation of a losing tradition.

 

One last thing about Mr. Wilson. I admire the man. He served America in WWII. He is a very smart and successful person and by most accounts, a decent man. I think that despite your post above, my point was at least somewhat clear wrt drafting to win, as opposed to selling a product. I don't think Mr. Wilson should be "chided" for making a profit. I am merely of the opinion that drafting an "exciting" small running back to line up behind horrible tackles is a very questionable move, one that could have other motivations aside from building the team in the best manner in terms of winning football games.

The Bills aren't winning, and I think (perhaps you would agree) that the major reason for their losing streak is horrible drafts. I hope, as do you, that this pick was a sound one, and that this kid is the next Barry Sanders. It would be great for everyone, including this board, if the Bills could actually make the playoffs.

We shall see.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SDS]

I hope, as do you, that this pick was a sound one, and that this kid is the next Barry Sanders.

 

No offense, but I don't believe you. Not for a second. Your opinion on the matter has turned into dogma. As far as I can tell, your point of view is that there are only 8-9 football players from both teams on the field at any one time - the rest are irrelevant show ponies. I also think you hope Spiller is a miserable failure, because that would support your argument. Heck, I'm not even sure you've said a single decent thing about the guy, while taking every chance you can to marginalize him. That doesn't sound like anyone who wishes success for someone. But that's just me...

[LynchMob23]

I was going to join into this conversation, but I'm confused as to why Hayden Pana..pana...the chick from Heroes is licking Lord Stanley's Cup.

 

But to the convo at hand, the 10 seconds it took to get this done is what sold me personally like a lot of the posters. Spiller's a good kid Bill and hopefully he will step up.

[thewildrabbit]

Let's just breakdown your rant...

 

1. Wilson just wants to sell jerseys!

 

- It sounded good because it was a nice negative statement to demonize the owner, but as I pointed out - it isn't true.

 

2. Wilson made this choice...

 

- So, when our head coach/GM says he wants/needs a dynamic scatback in his offense long before the draft, and our resident insider says the Bills will draft certain linemen if they fall to us at #9, but will take CJ Spiller if the linemen are off the board - you conclude that Ralph Wilson made the selection? How does one actually reply to such an "analysis"?

 

3. Wilson is more concerned about selling tickets than winning!

 

Nice false choice. Draft Spiller and lose or draft the way you want and win. Let's just follow the illogic here. The corollary to your argument is if the Bills win games they would have an empty stadium? So, Ralph needs to avoid winning so he can make money by drawing people to the stadium by losing with gimmick players? The only thing missing in this argument is a Hitler reference.

 

And to continue on with point 3... Think about your "point" for a minute. If Wilson did force the pick of Spiller (he did not) to sell more jerseys (it doesn't work that way), and in order to sell more tickets (this is apparently a bad thing to do) then the overall point you're making is Wilson needs to be chided for putting a product on the field that more people want to watch... What a bastard.

 

Stringing a bunch of negative thoughts together, and repeating them over and over, just because they superficially support your opinion doesn't make a supportive argument. Constantly referring to CJ, who by all accounts seems to be a tremendous person, as a "gimmick" in order to marginalize him before his 1st snap is also rather unfortunate.

 

No one said you had to like his selection, but your argument against it is just poorly thought out.

Bill is OK, he is just a tad bitter about the Bills selecting a RB when they already had two very good players in Lynch and Jackson, not really an area of desperate need for the Bills. (So he is looking for someone / something to blame it on. The selection really has nothing to do with the owner IMO.)

 

However, the O line did have desperate needs at both tackle positions and center, and the Bills simply ignored those positions until the 5th round, and we have all seen what type of O linemen the Bills have selected in the later rounds the last few years.

 

This years draft was loaded with talent at the tackle position and 8 OT's went in the first two rounds and the Bills didn't draft any of them.

 

Someone on the Bills staff (scout?) seems to think they can win with below average talent on the O line...

 

My problem is the past 6 years the talent evaluators at OBD kept finding these scrubs like Ross Tucker-Lawrence Smith- Benny Anderson-Trey Teague-Mike D Williams-Melvin Fowler-Mike Gandy-Tutan Reyes-Cris Villarrial-Duke Preston-Terrance Pennington-Brad Butler- Derrick Dockery-Langston Walker and plugging them in and they all STUNK!!!

 

I have absolutely no confidence in whomever is judging the offensive line talent for this team the last 6 years... and it looks like nothing has changed.

 

What really kind of bothers me is

""Dolphins coach Tony Sparano raved about RG Richie Incognito's "fast-twitch" power.""

The Dolphins' offensive line is known for its power, a trait that Incognito also possesses. "He's knocking people down with his hands," said Sparano. Miami will have one of the top offensive lines in the league once again this season. Incognito will be an asset if he avoids boneheaded penalties.

 

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=3291

[LynchMob23]

But to follow using Buddy's logic - if there weren't any starter-quality players this year available at each pick, what's the point in picking that guy over another person that is similarly talented and can start at another position?

 

And wrt Center position, I don't know what the hate is all about for a guy like Hangartner, who had a rookie to one side and a rookie/cavalcade of street fas to his other all year. I personally thought he did an admirable job, but to each his / her own.

[thewildrabbit]

But to follow using Buddy's logic - if there weren't any starter-quality players this year available at each pick, what's the point in picking that guy over another person that is similarly talented and can start at another position?

 

And wrt Center position, I don't know what the hate is all about for a guy like Hangartner, who had a rookie to one side and a rookie/cavalcade of street fas to his other all year. I personally thought he did an admirable job, but to each his / her own.

 

Draft grades are over rated IMO, find the guy you think will best help your team and draft him. I have a tough time thinking that a RB will help more then a LT.

 

Think about it a min, last season the Bills needed a LT to fill the void of Jason Peters and Michael Oher was still there. The Bills had Aaron Maybust graded as the best DE at that position over Orakpo, shows you what they know. Last season the Bills could have easily traded back and gotten more picks and still drafted Oher.

 

This season they could have traded back and still have gotten Maurkice Pouncey-Brian Bulaga or simply drafted Anthony Davis.

 

I'm not sold on Hangartner just yet, I'm not ready to dump him either as he did play with two rooks on either side of him. Although, If he can't handle Vince Wolfork or Kris Jenkins then wth good is he?

[vonwebs]

Your question is sound and well thought, but it is a FOOTBALL question. If the Bills would have went a differennt direction in round one and waited until later to draft a gimmick player, ask yourself how many less jerseys and tickets would have been sold.

First round picks draw all the attention. There are still posters who think that Whitner is a top flight safety, simply because he was drafted at #8. Many posters think that Losman doesn't suck because he was a first round pick.

Ralph Wilson is selling a product, and he knows exactly how to do so. He knows how to price tickets, which players to cut, and who to draft in terms of making a profit, NOT in terms of winning football games.

That said, (and this is pure speculation) I think that Ralph trusted Levy, thinking that he had a clue. Levy was poison. He hired Jauron, and botched the 06 draft in a way that was unimaginable. Levy and Jauron were an inept duo that would not have been hired in their capacities by any other team, and they went on to destroy the Buffalo Bills.

Nix/Gailey are far more competent than those losers as is indicated by the rest of the draft, but imo it is naive for a Bills fan to not assume that this pick was the work of Mr. Wilson, with the motivation being to fatten his wallet taking priority over winning football games.

 

Marv Levy was brought in to stabilize a very shaky front office. There was no trust in the organization and us as fans had all but given up on the team that Tom D had built. IMO Marv didn't do as bad a job as one may think. He kept us fans in the stands and instilled some pride back into the FO. I take offense to you calling Levy a loser, that statement couldn't be further from the truth. If your a true Bills fan you would edit your comment and just say that while not perfect he did what he thought was best for the organization.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Here's another question.

 

Would you rather spend a top-10 on Spiller, or trade your fifth round pick for a proven scat-back in Leon Washington?

[SuperKillerRobots]

I know it seems that I'm casting aspersions on the CJ Spiller pick seeing as I've made two posts about him in one day. In truth, I had to wait till well after the draft to really incubate some thoughts. I consider myself neither an optimist nor a pessimist when analyzing the Bills.

 

Besides the 15-18 touches per game issue, here's the other issue regarding the drafting of CJ Spiller at #9 (and surprisingly to me, no one here or in the media has brought up this issue, which I think is very real).

 

There were at least two other "scatbacks" that the Bills could have taken later in the draft…although one might have required a trade down in the first round.

 

Specifically, Jahvid Best (5'9" 195 lbs) is a player VERY close to Spiller (5'11" 195 lbs) in terms of talent, style, and impact. He ended up going to Detroit with the 30th pick overall after the Lions traded up four spots to select him. Another highly regarded scatback in this draft was Dexter McCluster (5'9" 172 lbs) who went 36th overall to the Chiefs.

 

In actuality, one can make the argument that Best is a better player than Spiller.

 

For starters, several player rankings had Best ranked higher than Spiller.

 

Best also had the fastest 40-time of all running backs at the NFL Combine.

 

Playing 3 years for Cal in the Pac Ten, Best totaled 3635 yards, averaging 7.3 yards per rush, 8.6 yards per reception, and 25.6 yards per kick return.

 

Playing 4 years for Clemson in the ACC, Spiller totaled 7588 yards, averaging 5.9 yards per rush, 11.5 yards per reception, and 27.7 yards per kick return.

 

I'm not saying that Best is better than Spiller. Spiller was certainly more of a workhorse for Clemson (but does that not also mean that he has higher mileage?) and had very few injuries while Best was nagged by injuries during his college career. I'm merely pointing out that the player who many thought was the most explosive player in college football, Jahvid Best, is nearly as good as Spiller and went 21 picks later. I would also argue that if a player is going to get limited touches, it matters less how much of a load he can carry.

 

As for Dexter McCluster, he played 4 years for Ole Miss in the SEC, totaling 4089 yards, averaging 6.4 yards per rush, 13.1 yards per reception, and 19.7 yards per kick return.

 

Again, Spiller might be the best of this group.

 

But in all the oversimplified criticism of Spiller being a "luxury pick," everyone who makes that argument points to the usual crap about building through the trenches, already being strong at running back, passing up needs at OT and QB, etc.

 

But one of the main things that makes CJ Spiller a luxury pick, if indeed he is one, is that there were similar players that the Bills could have possibly traded down to get later…picking up extra picks along the way.

 

As a corollary to that point, the ONLY criticism I have of the Bills draft is Buddy Nix's quick, decisive, selection of CJ Spiller. He was admittedly dismissive of the idea of trading down but he may have been too hasty.The Bills made their pick very quickly (I can't recall exactly how quickly). Who's to say that a team might not have come calling with a trade offer if Nix had simply waited to use his complete allotted ten minutes. Who knows how many picks the Bills could have stockpiled had they simply listened to offers. It's within the realm of possibility that they could have come out of the draft with more players who they liked, AND gotten the coveted scatback.

 

I hear what you're saying and agree to a certain extent, but two things come to mind. First was Buddy's assessment after the draft saying, "there's only one Spiller". The second is that there are legitimate questions surrounding the other two guys you mention. Primarily concerning their durability, as that argument goes both ways. Do you really want to take a chance on a guy who couldn't stay healthy in college and is a smaller player. It may just be me, but I'd want a guy who was an injury risk as opposed to taking one that was, if I had the opportunity. Trent Edwards comes to mind in this scenario.

 

As far as trying to trade down and take a similiar player, last year's draft comes to mind. We had our choice between two similar players - Maybin and Orakpo - and we chose the one that did less last year. These are two similar players with a huge difference between their production. So why not trade down and take a player that looks similar at first glance? Because a similar player might not get you what you are looking for.

 

If either of the other two guys are better than Spiller, then this will be a major point of emphasis going forward for the fan base and if not, no one will mention it past this offseason.

[Sabre Bill]

Playing 4 years for Clemson in the ACC, Spiller totaled 7588 yards, averaging 5.9 yards per rush, 11.5 yards per reception, and 27.7 yards per kick return.

 

 

I get it, but it's just wrong to argue that durability and success in the ACC is a negative.

 

Plus, Spiller's YPC/YPR/YPKR is impacted by the fact that the field is only 100 yards long.

He reached paydirt over 50% more often than Best and 200% more often than McCluster.