Choice of QB strikes me as secondary aspect to improving O performance

[GrudginglyPessimistic]

While there is a lot of chatter out there about whether Brohm, Fitzy or Trent Edwards is the man we want at QB, my sense is that this choice is really going to have a secondary impact on whether this O improves or not over the defective DJ version of past years.

 

First, I think this is true because none of these 3 players really has more than a snowballs chance of becoming the QB the Bills want and need (I would rank them this way at this point-

 

1. Edwards actually has shown the most skill and productivity at this point making a very good start as a rookie with good accuracy, an intelligent ability to read defenses and a surprising amount of mobility and a willingness to stick in the pocket. However, he simply sucked as last season closed out as the haphazard O designed by the suddenly fired Schoenert and then managed but fatally flawed by AVP helped turn him into Trentative Edwards. Can Gailey perform the same magic on a failed Edwards that he has performed in resuscitating other failed QBs? I think Gailey actually has demonstrated he has the skills to do this, but the problem is even though I think Edwards has some good playing tools to work with, I think he has demonstrated in his short pro career (and how his college play ended) that he his simply an injury prone player. My measure of a player deserving the label injury prone is if they miss important PT 3 times to differing injuries in two seasons. With Edwards losing time his rookie year to a bad wrist, and his sophomore year to a concussion, I add this in to him missing some valuable practice time for a young QB to an unspecified (but different than his previous injuries according to reports) during pre-season.

 

I think Gailey might be able to pull off the trick of reviving TEs performance but in the bigger picture who cares about this if he cannot stay on the field.

 

2. Fitzy- demonstrated to me he is a good choice for back-up with his performance late last year. Yet, no one mistakes this Ivy-League guy who is probably a great pick to have analyzing the game from the sidelines and being a confidant and a Frank Reich level at best short-term backup to the starter as a serious long term answer at QB.

 

3. Brohm- probably the most credible upside and potential to become a long term answer, but he defines the idea that potential simply means you have not done anything yet. His plaudits in college appear real and he showed real signs of being a big time player for GB in the post Favre era. However, one cannot overlook that with that table set for him he got beat out as the #2 by a 7th round pick. Brohm showed he did belong here in his brief turn running a bad Bills O last year, but he has yet to demonstrate that he deserves to be considered a serious threat to be the Bills QB of the future.

 

I hope one of these men surprises (it could happen though I doubt it since TE has apparently worked on his body, Brohm does have the right attitude so far, and Fitzy just hangs in there amd #2 is all we expect). However, none of these men have demonstrated enough to make one feel that the answer to the Bills QB questions is not yet on this roster.

 

The second reason though is that there seem to be some pretty crystal clear areas where this O needs to improve in order to perform at an NFL level:

 

1. Run better patterns which by design create more separation-

 

We all noticed the lack of simple slant patterns in the Bills O last year and in addition to that the Bills need to go right up to the line in running more illegal pick plays where receivers do more crossing patterns and get in the "way" of opponents trying to do tight coverage on our WRs.

 

It was simply a travesty that this team had the raw speed that Evans, the demonstrated speed and open field running ability which Parrish showed on PR duty and added the HOF threat of TO and this team could not get the separation and DB threat these men would seem to easily have.

 

I blame the O performance not simply on poor play (though that clearly had a big role but a lot on poor route design.

 

2. Make better use of the RBs as recievers-

 

Actually going back a long ways part of the Bills problems at WR has been their inability to use the RBs productively in the pass game (there was one particular game I found particularly confusing where the Bills were actually in the playoff mix in the final game and noneother than that idiot Willis MaGahee caught a pass for a sizable game to start us off. However, the play got called back on a penalty which had little to do with the gain and the Bills O simply never seriously went to the RB pass again and lost as the O sputtered). This team used to use the RB pass as its bread and butter during the Thurman days and folks such as Marshall Faulk demonstrated this was a serious tool league wide. Yet, even with guys who showed talent receiving in college like Lynch did the Bills Os of the past few years have never made good use of this tool.

 

Perhaps the coming of Spiller who shows all the signs of a great 3rd down tool and is not a 3 down back signals the building of an RB pass catching threat. If we keep Lynch he can do more in this area and one of the great Jackson surprises was not only how well he ran but that even in our stiff O he is a pass catching threat. I know folks hate the check down but this is one fan who would love to see more RB touches in space out on the wings rather than rely on a smash mouth style we do not have the OL to run effectively.

 

3. More diverse play calling

 

Was I the only one who could pretty much call the Bills plays before we ran them (and sometimes even the whole series which seemed to revolve around run, run, punt as our theme.

 

Do not get me wrong, I think AVP is a gamer, but he looked to me in over his head in terms of playcalling that really fooled the enemy and in fact dictated the game to them. I do not expect this team, particularly with its learning at best QBs to simply run the other team out of the game. However, with a little more commitment to a spread offense rather than pretending this young OL is gonna run over everyone, using the TE as a feint or downfield rather than as a pseudo OL player, and more use of Wildcat style attacks which dictate to the D who is in and how they will set up I think this O can be more than a laughing stock.

[berriesandcream]

While there is a lot of chatter out there about whether Brohm, Fitzy or Trent Edwards is the man we want at QB, my sense is that this choice is really going to have a secondary impact on whether this O improves or not over the defective DJ version of past years.

 

First, I think this is true because none of these 3 players really has more than a snowballs chance of becoming the QB the Bills want and need (I would rank them this way at this point-

 

1. Edwards actually has shown the most skill and productivity at this point making a very good start as a rookie with good accuracy, an intelligent ability to read defenses and a surprising amount of mobility and a willingness to stick in the pocket. However, he simply sucked as last season closed out as the haphazard O designed by the suddenly fired Schoenert and then managed but fatally flawed by AVP helped turn him into Trentative Edwards. Can Gailey perform the same magic on a failed Edwards that he has performed in resuscitating other failed QBs? I think Gailey actually has demonstrated he has the skills to do this, but the problem is even though I think Edwards has some good playing tools to work with, I think he has demonstrated in his short pro career (and how his college play ended) that he his simply an injury prone player. My measure of a player deserving the label injury prone is if they miss important PT 3 times to differing injuries in two seasons. With Edwards losing time his rookie year to a bad wrist, and his sophomore year to a concussion, I add this in to him missing some valuable practice time for a young QB to an unspecified (but different than his previous injuries according to reports) during pre-season.

 

I think Gailey might be able to pull off the trick of reviving TEs performance but in the bigger picture who cares about this if he cannot stay on the field.

 

2. Fitzy- demonstrated to me he is a good choice for back-up with his performance late last year. Yet, no one mistakes this Ivy-League guy who is probably a great pick to have analyzing the game from the sidelines and being a confidant and a Frank Reich level at best short-term backup to the starter as a serious long term answer at QB.

 

3. Brohm- probably the most credible upside and potential to become a long term answer, but he defines the idea that potential simply means you have not done anything yet. His plaudits in college appear real and he showed real signs of being a big time player for GB in the post Favre era. However, one cannot overlook that with that table set for him he got beat out as the #2 by a 7th round pick. Brohm showed he did belong here in his brief turn running a bad Bills O last year, but he has yet to demonstrate that he deserves to be considered a serious threat to be the Bills QB of the future.

 

I hope one of these men surprises (it could happen though I doubt it since TE has apparently worked on his body, Brohm does have the right attitude so far, and Fitzy just hangs in there amd #2 is all we expect). However, none of these men have demonstrated enough to make one feel that the answer to the Bills QB questions is not yet on this roster.

 

The second reason though is that there seem to be some pretty crystal clear areas where this O needs to improve in order to perform at an NFL level:

 

1. Run better patterns which by design create more separation-

 

We all noticed the lack of simple slant patterns in the Bills O last year and in addition to that the Bills need to go right up to the line in running more illegal pick plays where receivers do more crossing patterns and get in the "way" of opponents trying to do tight coverage on our WRs.

 

It was simply a travesty that this team had the raw speed that Evans, the demonstrated speed and open field running ability which Parrish showed on PR duty and added the HOF threat of TO and this team could not get the separation and DB threat these men would seem to easily have.

 

I blame the O performance not simply on poor play (though that clearly had a big role but a lot on poor route design.

 

2. Make better use of the RBs as recievers-

 

Actually going back a long ways part of the Bills problems at WR has been their inability to use the RBs productively in the pass game (there was one particular game I found particularly confusing where the Bills were actually in the playoff mix in the final game and noneother than that idiot Willis MaGahee caught a pass for a sizable game to start us off. However, the play got called back on a penalty which had little to do with the gain and the Bills O simply never seriously went to the RB pass again and lost as the O sputtered). This team used to use the RB pass as its bread and butter during the Thurman days and folks such as Marshall Faulk demonstrated this was a serious tool league wide. Yet, even with guys who showed talent receiving in college like Lynch did the Bills Os of the past few years have never made good use of this tool.

 

Perhaps the coming of Spiller who shows all the signs of a great 3rd down tool and is not a 3 down back signals the building of an RB pass catching threat. If we keep Lynch he can do more in this area and one of the great Jackson surprises was not only how well he ran but that even in our stiff O he is a pass catching threat. I know folks hate the check down but this is one fan who would love to see more RB touches in space out on the wings rather than rely on a smash mouth style we do not have the OL to run effectively.

 

3. More diverse play calling

 

Was I the only one who could pretty much call the Bills plays before we ran them (and sometimes even the whole series which seemed to revolve around run, run, punt as our theme.

 

Do not get me wrong, I think AVP is a gamer, but he looked to me in over his head in terms of playcalling that really fooled the enemy and in fact dictated the game to them. I do not expect this team, particularly with its learning at best QBs to simply run the other team out of the game. However, with a little more commitment to a spread offense rather than pretending this young OL is gonna run over everyone, using the TE as a feint or downfield rather than as a pseudo OL player, and more use of Wildcat style attacks which dictate to the D who is in and how they will set up I think this O can be more than a laughing stock.

 

The Bills offense last year was overly conservative. It seemed that Jauron's offensive philosophy was to try as hard as he could not to turn the ball over. With so little imagination, they were too predictable. They will regret not adding any WR help though, and not drafting a starting LT. I don't see the offense being any better with the passing game looking like it will be worse unless a WR other then Evans can emerge.

[Dr. Trooth]

Suffice to say that the offenses of the Jauron era were clearly of the high school caliber.

 

Gailey is the first real offensive mind the Bills have had since Ted Marchibroda (I'd count Henning in the late 90s, but he was handcuffed due to the lack of personnel). So, what Gailey brings alone should move this team 10-12 notches in offensive ranking. I believe that if surrounded by the right coaching, Both Fitz and Edwards are serviceable. Brohm will have to prove he can play because I doubt the Bills are going to sit Brown on the PS... I think they want him wearing a headset and clutching a clipboard every Sunday.

[CardinalScotts]

If Gailey can get Edwards fixed it would be quite a feather in his cap. Edwards can't just be another Tomczak ? We're not asking for a hall of fame caliber guy just don't be a sack machine. Lastly if you have gone to games and not just watched on TV wide recievers are open maybe not college football open but NFL open he's just not willing to risk the throw- if that's coach Jauron's fault (and I hope it was) then we'll find out but if that is Edwards inability to pull the trigger I think Brohm will beat him out.

[PS 56]

My biggest concerns about Edwards is his history with concussions. They are not something to be taken lightly. He has suffered them in college and with the Bills. I am not a doctor but I have heard that once they occur, there is an increasing likelihood that they will reoccur. You could have Godzilla on the O line, but if someone sneaks through for a sack, you could loose him for the year. I think his quickness to drop the ball off was a reflection of his concerns about that as well.

[T master]

The Bills offense last year was overly conservative. It seemed that Jauron's offensive philosophy was to try as hard as he could not to turn the ball over. With so little imagination, they were too predictable. They will regret not adding any WR help though, and not drafting a starting LT. I don't see the offense being any better with the passing game looking like it will be worse unless a WR other then Evans can emerge.

 

 

Apparently you haven't been paying attention to all the WR signed as free agents or drafted along with just the potential of the ones we already had . By the way , just what in the world do your links have to do with football in any way ??

[berriesandcream]

Apparently you haven't been paying attention to all the WR signed as free agents or drafted along with just the potential of the ones we already had . By the way , just what in the world do your links have to do with football in any way ??

 

So we couldn't have used Boldin? Or Antonio Bryant? What does "T Master" have to do with football?

[Rico]

While there is a lot of chatter out there about whether Brohm, Fitzy or Trent Edwards is the man we want at QB, my sense is that this choice is really going to have a secondary impact on whether this O improves or not over the defective DJ version of past years.

 

First, I think this is true because none of these 3 players really has more than a snowballs chance of becoming the QB the Bills want and need (I would rank them this way at this point-

 

1. Edwards actually has shown the most skill and productivity at this point making a very good start as a rookie with good accuracy, an intelligent ability to read defenses and a surprising amount of mobility and a willingness to stick in the pocket. However, he simply sucked as last season closed out as the haphazard O designed by the suddenly fired Schoenert and then managed but fatally flawed by AVP helped turn him into Trentative Edwards. Can Gailey perform the same magic on a failed Edwards that he has performed in resuscitating other failed QBs? I think Gailey actually has demonstrated he has the skills to do this, but the problem is even though I think Edwards has some good playing tools to work with, I think he has demonstrated in his short pro career (and how his college play ended) that he his simply an injury prone player. My measure of a player deserving the label injury prone is if they miss important PT 3 times to differing injuries in two seasons. With Edwards losing time his rookie year to a bad wrist, and his sophomore year to a concussion, I add this in to him missing some valuable practice time for a young QB to an unspecified (but different than his previous injuries according to reports) during pre-season.

 

I think Gailey might be able to pull off the trick of reviving TEs performance but in the bigger picture who cares about this if he cannot stay on the field.

 

2. Fitzy- demonstrated to me he is a good choice for back-up with his performance late last year. Yet, no one mistakes this Ivy-League guy who is probably a great pick to have analyzing the game from the sidelines and being a confidant and a Frank Reich level at best short-term backup to the starter as a serious long term answer at QB.

 

3. Brohm- probably the most credible upside and potential to become a long term answer, but he defines the idea that potential simply means you have not done anything yet. His plaudits in college appear real and he showed real signs of being a big time player for GB in the post Favre era. However, one cannot overlook that with that table set for him he got beat out as the #2 by a 7th round pick. Brohm showed he did belong here in his brief turn running a bad Bills O last year, but he has yet to demonstrate that he deserves to be considered a serious threat to be the Bills QB of the future.

 

I hope one of these men surprises (it could happen though I doubt it since TE has apparently worked on his body, Brohm does have the right attitude so far, and Fitzy just hangs in there amd #2 is all we expect). However, none of these men have demonstrated enough to make one feel that the answer to the Bills QB questions is not yet on this roster.

 

The second reason though is that there seem to be some pretty crystal clear areas where this O needs to improve in order to perform at an NFL level:

 

1. Run better patterns which by design create more separation-

 

We all noticed the lack of simple slant patterns in the Bills O last year and in addition to that the Bills need to go right up to the line in running more illegal pick plays where receivers do more crossing patterns and get in the "way" of opponents trying to do tight coverage on our WRs.

 

It was simply a travesty that this team had the raw speed that Evans, the demonstrated speed and open field running ability which Parrish showed on PR duty and added the HOF threat of TO and this team could not get the separation and DB threat these men would seem to easily have.

 

I blame the O performance not simply on poor play (though that clearly had a big role but a lot on poor route design.

 

2. Make better use of the RBs as recievers-

 

Actually going back a long ways part of the Bills problems at WR has been their inability to use the RBs productively in the pass game (there was one particular game I found particularly confusing where the Bills were actually in the playoff mix in the final game and noneother than that idiot Willis MaGahee caught a pass for a sizable game to start us off. However, the play got called back on a penalty which had little to do with the gain and the Bills O simply never seriously went to the RB pass again and lost as the O sputtered). This team used to use the RB pass as its bread and butter during the Thurman days and folks such as Marshall Faulk demonstrated this was a serious tool league wide. Yet, even with guys who showed talent receiving in college like Lynch did the Bills Os of the past few years have never made good use of this tool.

 

Perhaps the coming of Spiller who shows all the signs of a great 3rd down tool and is not a 3 down back signals the building of an RB pass catching threat. If we keep Lynch he can do more in this area and one of the great Jackson surprises was not only how well he ran but that even in our stiff O he is a pass catching threat. I know folks hate the check down but this is one fan who would love to see more RB touches in space out on the wings rather than rely on a smash mouth style we do not have the OL to run effectively.

 

3. More diverse play calling

 

Was I the only one who could pretty much call the Bills plays before we ran them (and sometimes even the whole series which seemed to revolve around run, run, punt as our theme.

 

Do not get me wrong, I think AVP is a gamer, but he looked to me in over his head in terms of playcalling that really fooled the enemy and in fact dictated the game to them. I do not expect this team, particularly with its learning at best QBs to simply run the other team out of the game. However, with a little more commitment to a spread offense rather than pretending this young OL is gonna run over everyone, using the TE as a feint or downfield rather than as a pseudo OL player, and more use of Wildcat style attacks which dictate to the D who is in and how they will set up I think this O can be more than a laughing stock.

Word.

[Green Lightning]

Long post, but well thought out. I happen to agree and fully expect to see TE under center against Miami. Actually I'm really intrigued to see how much a competent offensive coach can improve TE's performance by playing to his strengths. I also fully expect TE to get knocked out of a game by mid year after Wang or Bell whiff against a speed rush or someone misses against a blitz. Despite it all, I'm pumped for what's to come.

[stuckincincy]

While there is a lot of chatter out there about whether Brohm, Fitzy or Trent Edwards is the man we want at QB, my sense is that this choice is really going to have a secondary impact on whether this O improves or not over the defective DJ version of past years.

 

To QB or not to QB - that is not the (only) question.

 

16 teams are rubbing their foreparts together at the prospect of facing another Bills' idea at an OL, unsettled QB spot, a sea change re defensive scheme, and a top pick that folks wax poetic about playing the slot, i.e. a Reggie Bush but without a Drew Brees...

[yungmack]

To QB or not to QB - that is not the (only) question.

 

16 teams are rubbing their foreparts together at the prospect of facing another Bills' idea at an OL, unsettled QB spot, a sea change re defensive scheme, and a top pick that folks wax poetic about playing the slot, i.e. a Reggie Bush but without a Drew Brees...

That'd be 13 teams, none of whom will be "rubbing their foreparts together" as the Bills were not a huge push over last year, and should be a great deal improved this year. Yep, even with the same QBs.

[stuckincincy]

That'd be 13 teams, none of whom will be "rubbing their foreparts together" as the Bills were not a huge push over last year, and should be a great deal improved this year. Yep, even with the same QBs.

 

Isn't it a 16 game schedule?

[FLFan]

Isn't it a 16 game schedule?

Yes, but we play 3 teams twice.

[K-9]

The second reason though is that there seem to be some pretty crystal clear areas where this O needs to improve in order to perform at an NFL level:

 

1. Run better patterns which by design create more separation-

 

We all noticed the lack of simple slant patterns in the Bills O last year and in addition to that the Bills need to go right up to the line in running more illegal pick plays where receivers do more crossing patterns and get in the "way" of opponents trying to do tight coverage on our WRs.

 

It was simply a travesty that this team had the raw speed that Evans, the demonstrated speed and open field running ability which Parrish showed on PR duty and added the HOF threat of TO and this team could not get the separation and DB threat these men would seem to easily have.

 

I blame the O performance not simply on poor play (though that clearly had a big role but a lot on poor route design.

 

The simple slant isn't so simple when facing the types of fronts the Bills faced last year. Our O was constantly faced with a crowded LOS with 8 men in the box and the slant isn't exactly the best route to use against those fronts. Indeed, you're asking for trouble. Not that we had a QB capable of executing it most of the time anyway. We need to find a way to loosen the defesnive fronts before we can dictate those passes to the middle of the field.

 

 

2. Make better use of the RBs as recievers-

 

Absolutely! Gailey has always done this and I would be shocked if he didn't use Spiller, especially, in a prominant role as a pass receiver coming out of the backfield. Either shifting him to the slot or lining him up there is going to create mismatches. Freddy can be effective as well but he's not a huge threat as a receiver and Lynch isn't up to the task. He drops too many. Spiller is the key and I predict he will be THE weapon as a pass-catching RB.

 

 

 

3. More diverse play calling

 

Agree again. But it's simpler said than done. It's great to have divsersity but it's more important to have the talent to execute even the most basic plays first and foremost. Except for a couple players on offense we aren't there yet. Especially at the QB position. In our SB years Kelly only ran about 8-10 plays albeit out of different formations but they kept it simple and we were successful because of our superior talent. It's no different now. We need the talent before we can execute a simple game plan let alone a highly diverse one. That said, I look for Gailey to give the boys every opportunity to at least ATTEMPT to be diverse. Again, having Spiller is going to tip the field in our favor.

 

Regardless, we're in for an interesting, if not successful (from a W-L perspective) year.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[tennesseeboy]

That'd be 13 teams, none of whom will be "rubbing their foreparts together" as the Bills were not a huge push over last year, and should be a great deal improved this year. Yep, even with the same QBs.

I miss the "greatly improved" part. TO and Josh Reed are gone and everyone else is pretty much unproven other than Evans. The Tight Ends aren't any great shakes. The offensive line is weaker and with less depth than last year. The qb's are the same. Offensively this is an even weaker crew than last year. We had pretty good running backs last year and we got another running back who might be pretty good.

Defensively we have Schobel, Kelsay and Maybin playing new positions and an oft injured guy from Tennessee, and possibly two rookies on the line and a new system.

 

 

I hope we do well, but I don't see any reason to see how the Bills are "greatly improved". The one thing that may be improved is the coaching staff, given the implosion that our coaches went through last season, but I want to see the new staff perform (9 wins) before I'll say they are any great improvement.

[Gugny]

I miss the "greatly improved" part. TO and Josh Reed are gone and everyone else is pretty much unproven other than Evans. The Tight Ends aren't any great shakes. The offensive line is weaker and with less depth than last year. The qb's are the same. Offensively this is an even weaker crew than last year. We had pretty good running backs last year and we got another running back who might be pretty good.

Defensively we have Schobel, Kelsay and Maybin playing new positions and an oft injured guy from Tennessee, and possibly two rookies on the line and a new system.

 

 

I hope we do well, but I don't see any reason to see how the Bills are "greatly improved". The one thing that may be improved is the coaching staff, given the implosion that our coaches went through last season, but I want to see the new staff perform (9 wins) before I'll say they are any great improvement.

Miami won the division with a bunch of unknowns and unprovens a couple years ago. I agree that there's nothing about this year's team that screams "great improvement" over last year's team. The new coaching staff, Spiller, the subtractions of TO and Reed, along with a new defensive scheme ... to me, those are at least "positives." I'm not overly optimistic for a winning season. I am, however, optimistic that we at least remove "laughingstock" as a label. It would be a nice step in the right direction, and if we play with some respectability and promise for the future, I'll consider it a successful year.

[Sisyphean Bills]

The simple slant isn't so simple when facing the types of fronts the Bills faced last year. Our O was constantly faced with a crowded LOS with 8 men in the box and the slant isn't exactly the best route to use against those fronts. Indeed, you're asking for trouble. Not that we had a QB capable of executing it most of the time anyway. We need to find a way to loosen the defesnive fronts before we can dictate those passes to the middle of the field.

<snippage>

The defenses knew we weren't capable or willing to go deep; Jauron was going to play it safe. 'Nuff said.

[Malazan]

On Brohm:

 

His plaudits in college appear real and he showed real signs of being a big time player for GB in the post Favre era.

 

 

When did this happen?

[reddogblitz]

I'd put the need for QB and OL as even steven. We need both. We won't get very far without both.