BRH Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 While I cannot agre with you that Artest did nothing wrong, I will quote a line from Chrisk Rock's "Bring the Pain" routine when discussing OJ: "I'm not saying he should have done it, but I understand!" 128274[/snapback] Actually that was Sam Kinison's line first... "I don't condone it. I underSTAND IT! I underSTAND what turns Mr. HAND into Mr. FIST!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 The leagues have to step up and do something about the fans- they dont have the right to do or say anything they want, regardless of how much they pay. I'd like to see a lot of jailtime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCBillsFan Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 The leagues have to step up and do something about the fans- they dont have the right to do or say anything they want, regardless of how much they pay. I'd like to see a lot of jailtime 128462[/snapback] I agree with this. In no circumstance should a player enter the stands unless it is truly self defense there has to be a limit for the fans as well. They seem to be getting a free pass here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Definitely. The fans involved need to have legal action taken, and not be allowed to go to any more Pistons games. Security also needs to be called onto the carpet for being ABSENT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Just another reason to wish BF wasn't a BILLS fan. His horrific karma once again rears its all too powerful and ugly head. 128289[/snapback] LOL LOL absolutely true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Definitely. The fans involved need to have legal action taken, and not be allowed to go to any more Pistons games. Security also needs to be called onto the carpet for being ABSENT! 128505[/snapback] not just Pistons games- the NBA needs to circulate names and pictures to every team- and maybe to MLB and NFL as well- ban them from everything. Their names should also be revealed on ESPN is a ridiculing manner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjamie12 Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 I think the punishments were justified. What I don't understand is how the Pistons (as a club) aren't being punished... At the very least, I would think that they would have to play one game without any fans at the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like A Mofo Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Where can I find a video online of the brawl??? If anyone can help me, Id greatley appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 At the very least, I would think that they would have to play one game without any fans at the game. 128524[/snapback] Generous of you. I'd make them forfeit a home game, just to punish the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 I'm still waiting for a co-worker to dump a cup of water on me today to see how I will react. (I just love how people try to compare this incident to the real world, as if the life of an NBA-er is anything close to that of a "regular" person). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 I think the punishments were justified. What I don't understand is how the Pistons (as a club) aren't being punished... At the very least, I would think that they would have to play one game without any fans at the game. 128524[/snapback] That's punishment?! Actually I have a problem with Wallace getting more than a one game suspension. All he did was push Artest for committing a idiotic flagrant foul while his team was destroying the Pistons. This after Wallace's brother died earlier in the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gantrules Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 I must have missed the point in time when it became OK to throw things at people and not expect a reaction. Isn't that the reason we egged on Bryan Cox? Sure he didn't come in to the stands but it's a little different when there is a wall between you and the player. I am not a Pacers fan but this is not fair to the franchise and it sets up a potential problem in the future for fans. I mean seriously what type of security measures are being put in place to protect the fans and the players??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 I must have missed the point in time when it became OK to throw things at people and not expect a reaction. 128589[/snapback] It has NEVER been Ok to throw something at anyone, unprovoked. But, getting paid the amount of money he is, with his past, and knowing his family might be watching (mainly his own kids), and knowing there were little ones in the crowd, don't you think the ADULT thing to do would be to stand up, point out the suspect, and have security toss him? Situation over, fan gets tossed, possibly arrested, and we realize we live in a country that isn't under marshall law, which is what anyone who is defending Artest is implying we should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kgun5 Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Definitely. The fans involved need to have legal action taken, and not be allowed to go to any more Pistons games. Security also needs to be called onto the carpet for being ABSENT! 128505[/snapback] I certainly agree that the fans need to be dealt with...and severly. What I don't understand is what, if anything, fan behavior has to do with what Artest did. Yes, Artest was the victim of a classless and arrest-worthy incedent by a fan from Detroit. That fan deserves to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. What Artest did in response to that action, however, is ALSO totally unacceptable. It doesn't matter that he was a victim of "fan violence, there are clear guidelines that his profession demands he adhere to. He did not...That is his perogative...but he broke the rules of his profession, and it suspended him accordingly. He turned one fan's despicable act into something that involved several fans, many of whom were innocent. Artest could have gotten up and gone to the locker room and been none the worse, but he didn't. Secondly, I know as fans we've all felt like we were victims. I would guess (though I can't possibly know,) that most of us felt more wronged by the "Just give it to them" call or the "No Goal" call, than any cup of liquid ever could. I'm also pretty sure that no one here would condone jumping onto the field and attempting to hurt the refs in those cases though. Yes, they wronged us and did something totally unfair that hurt us (emotionally rather than physically), but most people realize (consciencely or unconsciencely) that certain guidelines need to be respected in sports, and without them, the system collapses. For better or worse, referees are held accountable (or should be) by their governing bodies. A Fan's behaviors are held accountable (or should be) by the law. It was not Artest's job to punish the wrong against him, it was the law's. Lastly, I can understand some of the criticism over security's handling of the situation, but what exactly was security supposed to do in the 3 seconds between the time the cup was thrown, and the time Artest was on top of that fan? Was Superman working the game Friday night? I'd like to think that the idiot who threw the cup would have been dealt with if security had been given time to react. The fact is that they weren't. As for security as it relates to other issues, it's tough to say. I've been told many of them were standing around watching. I'm sure that's probably true, but most of them are rent-a-cops after all. There's no way the NBA could afford to have a large police force at every game. The security at those games is used to breaking up small fights and tossing people who act like morons. It's tough to believe they knew how to handle the mess that developed. Still, they are not without blame. No way people should get on the court to continue the brawl that started in the stands. There should have been some disaster procedure that locked down the court (like the one near the end of football games where the goalposts are deemed to be in danger...but without the horses.) All in all, there's a lot of fault here. Stern can only punish the guys in the league, and even though the Detroit fans were as bad or worse with regard to their behavior, that doesn't change how bad Artest's behavior was. Whether you think a season long ban is warrented or not, I don't understand how the fan's behavior somehow makes what Artest did "less" wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Actually, Artest never punched THAT fan, and didn't ever use much force at all. All he did was shove the guy's face down with his palm. It couldn't even have hurt at all. It would not have hurt a 12 year old girl. It was only ANOTHER fan, after Artest was pulled away, and actually two other fans that went up to and after Artest, totally unprovoked, before Artest threw his first actual punch. He should be suspended and he shouldn't go into the stands. But he was given too much of a suspension. I still believe what Jackson did was worse than Artest did, because Jackson just started throwing wild dangerous punches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanone Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Here's what I think. Artest had all the frickin right to go in the crowd. It's freaking illegal to throw things on the court. It's illegal to go on the court. These people instigated him to come up there after Ben Wallace got ticked and started a fight. We live in a world where if we retaliate to what people do to us then we get punished. If someone came to your job and threw a cup of beer on you what would you do? 127813[/snapback] He went after the wrong guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 I tried to sum this up here 128153[/snapback] Nice work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kgun5 Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Actually, Artest never punched THAT fan, and didn't ever use much force at all. All he did was shove the guy's face down with his palm. It could't even have hurt at all. It would not have hurt a 12 year old girl. 128665[/snapback] Just to play devil's advocate, how many 12 year old girls are hurt by half full cups of water? I also think that Artest was about to get a shot off at that fan when he was bear hugged from behind. Still, I tend to agree with you about Jackson being the biggest offender. It seems clear that this is the area in which Stern looked at Artest's prior offenses. Unless Artest got a stiffer penalty due to being the first one into the crowd. That would be a kind of weak reason to give Jackson a lesser penalty IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gantrules Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 It has NEVER been Ok to throw something at anyone, unprovoked. But, getting paid the amount of money he is, with his past, and knowing his family might be watching (mainly his own kids), and knowing there were little ones in the crowd, don't you think the ADULT thing to do would be to stand up, point out the suspect, and have security toss him? -------------------------------------------------- I haven't been in that situation before. I know that this isn't the first time it's happened where Artest has had things thrown at him. And in all those cases he just ignored the problem and it went away. I agree that he should have taken that route again but he didn't and the result was probably the biggest riot we've ever seen in sports. Yes, Ron reacted and he reacted strongly. He should be punished simply b/c the NBA does not approve of fighting. But, for the remainder of the year? Absolutely not. 10-20 games would be fair and it wouldn't hurt the franchise which was egged on by the Detroit fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Just to play devil's advocate, how many 12 year old girls are hurt by half full cups of water? I also think that Artest was about to get a shot off at that fan when he was bear hugged from behind. Still, I tend to agree with you about Jackson being the biggest offender. It seems clear that this is the area in which Stern looked at Artest's prior offenses. Unless Artest got a stiffer penalty due to being the first one into the crowd. That would be a kind of weak reason to give Jackson a lesser penalty IMO. 128688[/snapback] I think Stern actually said that the decision was at least partly due to Artest's earlier behavior. I am not sure how I feel about that one. I understand both sides of the argument. I just think 73 games and 10 million dollars is too much to pay for committing a hard foul, AVOIDING a brawl after being punched first, laying on the scorer's table while the rest of the players scuffled, being hit by a cup of water thrown by a fan, charging the stands, NOT punching anyone but just being wrestled around, then being accosted by two other fans unprovoked, and punching both of them once when they came toward him, both of which happened as Artest was retreating (once being back by the scorer's table and the last fan walking right out onto the court). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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