Rico Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Sometimes it doesn't take hindsight...http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403426 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403448 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403468 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403482 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403491 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403491 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403540 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403546yours truly http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403548 Just scroll down from here http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403564 to see the rest... including this one http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403744 Granted it's the first season, but it's pretty apparent who the choice should have been. If you read the posts above, the comments indicate that a few posters like The Big Cat, Steely Dan, The Dean, and Dr. Drankenstein were misguided in their support of Maybin. However, it's amazing to see the LONG LIST of common fans that saw this coming before it happened. Great job FO! Outstanding post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 What scared me about Orakpo was the Texas history of big-time busts. The knock on him was a poor ethic too, which is what has done in just about every big-time Texas first rounder. What about the long list of Penn State busts? Texas has produced numerous NFL starters, too. Plus grouping a player in with the rest of his programs history is stupid. Orakpo faced much more talent at Texas than Maybin did in his 9 or so starts at Penn State. Now Im not sure what you are talking about, his work ethic or charactor issues, but neither were in question. His work ethic is un-matched and his charactor is steller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 What about the longer list of Penn State busts. Texas has produced numerous NFL starters. Plus grouping a player in with the rest of his programs history is stupid. Know Im not sure what you are talking about, his work ethic or charactor issues, but neither were in question. His work ethic is un-matched and his charactor is steller.Absolutely. JoePa should be embarrassed at the garbage he is sending to the pros... but I bet even he had to laugh at Maybin going at #11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I'm not ready to give up on Maybin. First years can be a bit weird for some guys, who need to bulk up react faster and all the rest. But next year, if he's not a starter, I'm ready to push the panic button. I agree that its too early but that doesn't mean that it was a good pick. If you can, what you want with every player, especially ones in the first round are guys who come in and start quickly and and have an impact even in their first year. Failing that, you hope to get a guy who does that in his second year and so on. Some teams, like the Redskins, got a guy who is playing well and having an impact right now. Maybin could turn out to be good next year but given the choice between a guy who plays great in year one and a guy who doesn't do it until year two, the choice is easy. So even if Maybin turns out okay eventually, the better pick was Orakpo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Sometimes it doesn't take hindsight...http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403426 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403448 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403468 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403482 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403491 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403491 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403540 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403546yours truly http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403548 Just scroll down from here http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403564 to see the rest... including this one http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403744 and http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...t&p=1403916 Granted it's the first season, but it's pretty apparent who the choice should have been. If you read the posts above, the comments indicate that a few posters like The Big Cat, Steely Dan, The Dean, and Dr. Drankenstein were misguided in their support of Maybin. However, it's amazing to see the LONG LIST of common fans that saw this coming before it happened. Great job FO! Love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC882 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Bruce Smith is very happy the internet wasn't in full flight when he was a rookie. Really,...really...did you just compare Bruce Smith, who had an awesome college carrear to Maybin, who started a whopping total of 10 games and had an outstanding cast with him at PSU. REALLY?!?!?!!? Yes you did. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharper802 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 This coaching staff simply does not know what to do with what they have nor how to develop anyone. Maybin should have been moved to OLB and Ellison should have been on the bench or cut. Maybin should then move to DE on nickel/dime packages. Maybe in time he is a fulltime DE in the NFL but not with his current frame/weight. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYY too soon to label him a bust. In fact I am not sure you can label any player a bust with this coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC882 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Calling the poor bastard a bust after only 8 games! Come on! I get the feeling that if Orakpo was playing on the line at DE in all situations he'd be doing exactly what Maybin is: nothing. That stand up position at the snap can't be discounted, as well as the odd fact that the coaches haven't seemed in a hurry to get Maybin involved as much as he could be. The guy played LB in college and even after 5 of the Bills LBs go down to injury, they still insist at him being an end. That to me is the biggest reason Maybin hasn't put up stats. No rookie DEs have good years. Dwight Freeny had about 13 sacks his rookie year. A bust is someone who does not live up to their draft position. Maybin has not. He may be "solid" someday, but not worth the #11 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Really,...really...did you just compare Bruce Smith, who had an awesome college carrear to Maybin, who started a whopping total of 10 games and had an outstanding cast with him at PSU. REALLY?!?!?!!? Yes you did. Wow. Actually, I think he compared Bruce's relative suckitude in his rookie year (to the rest of his career). Thus, he drew the comparison that a group of ignorant, loudmouthed fans would have, no doubt, called for the FOs head in that instance. Therefore, maybe we should just wait a bit before we go out on a limb and say so and so is a bust. Seems pretty logical to me... ....Now, back to your regularly scheduled second guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Really,...really...did you just compare Bruce Smith, who had an awesome college carrear to Maybin, who started a whopping total of 10 games and had an outstanding cast with him at PSU. REALLY?!?!?!!? Yes you did. Wow. "Outstanding cast with him at PSU?" REALLY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperKillerRobots Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I agree that its too early but that doesn't mean that it was a good pick. If you can, what you want with every player, especially ones in the first round are guys who come in and start quickly and and have an impact even in their first year. Failing that, you hope to get a guy who does that in his second year and so on. Some teams, like the Redskins, got a guy who is playing well and having an impact right now. Maybin could turn out to be good next year but given the choice between a guy who plays great in year one and a guy who doesn't do it until year two, the choice is easy. So even if Maybin turns out okay eventually, the better pick was Orakpo. With a first round pick - or any pick for that matter - you have to judge the guy on his career. So by your logic, if Maybin goes on to play for ten years and makes one pro bowl (for argument's sake), but Orakpo has one more decent year and then does nothing, Orakpo was still the better pick? Or what if they both turn out to be the two best DEs in the game within 3 years. Does that mean Maybin was still the worse pick? I haven't seen anything to suggest Orakpo is a Dwight Freeney to this point, so he's just accumulating some stats on a poor team. Dwight Freeny had about 13 sacks his rookie year. A bust is someone who does not live up to their draft position. Maybin has not. He may be "solid" someday, but not worth the #11 pick. Fair enough on Freeney, but Orakpo isn't putting up those types of numbers, so maybe your looking at the exception instead of the rule. What about Mario Williams? He was certainly stellar his first year, wasn't he? I guess another anomally to support your argument would be Peppers who had over 10 sacks as a rookie, but I think he had a down year 2. All I'm saying with my original post is that you can't expect these guys to come out like gangbusters in their rookie years. As far as expectations go, I don't think it really matters wha tthe fan expectations are for a player, only the teams expectations. So while a fan might think that because of the team's situation last year and high first round pick, that player should come in and do something immediately. Maybe the team didn't see it that way when they drafted him. It's not like he was the concensus top pick and labeled as the next Bruce Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 This coaching staff simply does not know what to do with what they have nor how to develop anyone. Maybin should have been moved to OLB and Ellison should have been on the bench or cut. Maybin should then move to DE on nickel/dime packages. Maybe in time he is a fulltime DE in the NFL but not with his current frame/weight. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYY too soon to label him a bust. In fact I am not sure you can label any player a bust with this coaching staff. Maybe if he was in camp on time they could have done that. Considering his youth and lack of playing time in college, I think it would be difficult for him to adjust to the pro game at olb. Unfortunately for most here, he is really a two year project at de. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 What about the long list of Penn State busts? Texas has produced numerous NFL starters, too. Plus grouping a player in with the rest of his programs history is stupid. Orakpo faced much more talent at Texas than Maybin did in his 9 or so starts at Penn State. Now Im not sure what you are talking about, his work ethic or charactor issues, but neither were in question. His work ethic is un-matched and his charactor is steller. Agreed on Penn State busts; in fact, are there any non-Penn State busts? I just remember that Chris Brown repeatedly alluded to Orakpo taking plays off: "Not bringing his best on every play could hurt Orakpo in the eyes of a lot of NFL teams, where taking plays off is not looked upon favorably." http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1...b9-ae021c3751d7 "I have said however, that I have some doubts about Orakpo. He takes plays off plain and simple. You can argue how often he takes plays off, but he does. It’s on the tape. Even Brandt admitted that." http://blogs.buffalobills.com/tag/brian-orakpo/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seq004 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Not ready to call Maybin a bust; maybe he's got to be moved to LB, like Orakpo. Couldn't agree more. He was playing LB in Preseason and that's when he was getting sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Or its a good thing we havent had to rely on Maybin yet especially since he inst ready.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Agreed on Penn State busts; in fact, are there any non-Penn State busts? I just remember that Chris Brown repeatedly alluded to Orakpo taking plays off: "Not bringing his best on every play could hurt Orakpo in the eyes of a lot of NFL teams, where taking plays off is not looked upon favorably." http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1...b9-ae021c3751d7 "I have said however, that I have some doubts about Orakpo. He takes plays off plain and simple. You can argue how often he takes plays off, but he does. It’s on the tape. Even Brandt admitted that." http://blogs.buffalobills.com/tag/brian-orakpo/ Let me know when Chris Brown has one once of credibility. Orakpos only knocks were his knee injuries. Injuries which he came back from with avengence. I peronally would have much more confidence drafting a guy who came back from injuries at full force than taking a guy who started 10 games at 225. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Absolutely. JoePa should be embarrassed at the garbage he is sending to the pros... but I bet even he had to laugh at Maybin going at #11. Rico, after reading a lot of the archieved posts of yours presented to me by Billzfan4Life, I have become a big fan of yours. Not just because of your view of Maybin vrs Orakpo either. Its very evident you know your sh*t. I would love/loathe to hear your opinion on Ellison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoring is not hardy Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 It's funny no one is beating the drum on the Byrd pick now. I'm sure I could go back and find some nice posts about that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zazie Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 It's funny no one is beating the drum on the Byrd pick now. I'm sure I could go back and find some nice posts about that one. Byrd turned out to be a great pick but I do not assign that to anything but the luck of the draw. Based on need and other factors, it was a terrible pick at the time. Retrospect tells us it was a great pick. Finally the worm turns in our favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Really,...really...did you just compare Bruce Smith, who had an awesome college carrear to Maybin, who started a whopping total of 10 games and had an outstanding cast with him at PSU. REALLY?!?!?!!? Yes you did. Wow. I just knew some mouth breather would take it that way. Thanks for not disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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