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Hell, I started in the Rockpile but I was with my Dad and the family. I was spoiled by Jack Kemp, but this Josh guy is growing on me. The quality of QB play will be WAY down the list of things they remember from their early days. I took each of my kids up from FL when they turned 16. We all cherish those memories and they cemented some life long Bills fans! I’m excited for you.

Thanks Aug!! I’m a little old for my first 🤦🏻‍♂️. Can’t wait to get him out to Bills games. My brother had a son in May. In the new stadium we have 4 seats in a row. It’ll be so fun for he and I to take the 2 little guys. That’s how we grew up going with our dad. That was those early 90’s teams. These guys will probably miss most of Josh but will still be so fun to instill that passion into them.

You're a bit too harsh imo when it comes to the Mahomes trade. I don't exactly think McDermott had the Chiefs circled as a rivalry to get that final WC spot. He just took over and knew he had to rebuild the team in his image and provide a certain "culture" (as corny as it sounds) to what was a clown organization at that point. I don't blame him for getting that extra first in 2018 and want to at least attempt to build a foundation before drafting a rookie QB. Nabbing Tre White at that spot in the draft was a hit. If Mahomes was such a sure prospect he wouldn't have fallen to where he did. Common group think at the time was the 2018 QB class was going to be superior to 2017's class. Beane was luckily at his best his first year here. Getting a 2nd for Watkins. Trading Glenn to move up in the first round. Getting Allen without having to give up a 1st. Somehow trading Tyrod for the first pick in the 3rd round. He did botch the bridge QB horrifically with the infamous Peterman/McCarron preseason battle.

The biggest crime was trading the pick to an AFC rival when they themselves needed a QB. Utter stupidity. The Chiefs were a team they were literally battling with for a final playoff spot for the Marrone/Rex era. Getting Josh Allen in the next draft is probably the closest thing US pro sports has seen in prior recent memory to the Dallas Mavericks Nico Harrison lucking out and getting Cooper Flagg after stupidly trading away Luka Doncic. It was a huge save and though it was lucky to get the most talented QB at #7 overall........a guy who would have gone #1 overall in a lot of prior drafts on tools alone........Beane deserves credit for doing the common sense thing and actually going all-in on a QB prospect. By that I mean selecting a QB with their first #1 pick in the draft or trading up from that pick to do so. Something, astonishingly, that the Ralph Wilson era Bills never did. But because they traded Mahomes to the Chiefs they created their biggest road block to ever reaching a SB with Allen. It's certainly cost them 2-4 trips already. Just a brutal reminder of how important first steps can sometimes be.

Playoff Stats: Record Win% Total Points Points/game Point Differential Total TDs TDs/Gm Headto Head Teams lost to Lamar Jackson: 3-5 37.5 149 18.6 Even 13 1.6 0-2 K.C. (1), Buf (2), LAC (1), Tenn (1) Josh Allen: 7-6 53.8 356 27.4 +44 32 2.5 2-0 K.C. (4), Cin (1), Hou (1) Also note: Four of the Bills six playoff losses (66.6%) were either Overtime or 3 point losses; only one of the Ravens losses (12.5%) were by 3 points or less.

No. Totally incorrect. The capital gained in the Mahomes-pick trade yielded Tre White and the Chiefs 2018 1st rounder that they then traded UP from to select Tremaine Edmunds. That cost an additional second rounder. So they didn't even get Tre White and Tremaine Edmunds for Mahomes........let alone Allen. None of the Mahomes trade capital was used to get Allen.

There were many that were upset we drafted Josh Allen over Josh Rosen. It’s hilarious on some of those embarrassing embarrassing 😳 🙈 takes. “Josh Allen will never be as good as Josh Rosen” 😂 🤣 😂

The 2022 team was easily the best roster of the Josh Allen era. That team had an elite QB, pass rusher, WR, and Safeties. 2025 should have a much better OL that team, but I don’t see them being elite anywhere else other than QB.

That is where I am. Probably the best roster overall they have had since Josh and the schedule is favorable even with some tough home matchups. KC is not as good while still scary and the AFC North is tough as hell even if BAL is a beast. It is kind of now or never.

Beane also enjoys long walks on the beach and romantic candlelight dinners. Nothing wrong with a little sensitivity from a man. When he asks Josh Allen how he’s doing he actually means it.

I think there’s lots of coaches, including them, who could have won 5 straight division titles from 2020 to 2024. That’s when we won 5 straight division titles. I don’t think they could have turned around the drought-era Bills like McDermott did. I think McD and co deserve a lot of credit for turning the entire organization around, and that includes drafting and developing Allen. I have never wavered on that. It’s why I agree he would get a job in 2 seconds if he was available for a sad sack organization. He has proven he can turn things around and that makes him a good coach, but not a great one imo. However, NOW, that Allen is great, I think you could replace McD with a lot of other coaches and basically get the same result. My opinion of McD is that he’s a floor raiser, not a ceiling raiser. And now Allen is holding up the floor by being maybe the best QB in football. We don’t need that anymore. I have been very consistent on this in this entire thread. Weird gotcha isn’t fun man, let go of the bone. There’s no scoreboard. You aren’t gonna twist my arm and make me say uncle.

Remember "Saving receipts"? You make it very clear Allen is the only reason for McDermott's success which is why you think Hackett and Gase would have also won 5 straight AFCE titles too. So basically replace McDermott with the above and results would be the same. And you're denying it.

I don’t know if I’d go that far. Mahomes had such a great roster and coaching advantage from the jump. Even if you play the “what if” game about getting a new HC in 2022 or in 2023 or even back in 2017, I think you’d be hard-pressed to find a coach who could hold his own vs Reid in the postseason consistently. And the further you go back, the less chance Allen is who he is today for the Buffalo Bills. I don’t think there’s any reality that like Daboll (not saying you’d want him, but whatever HC candidate you like) is our HC from 22 on and we are beating the Chiefs consistently in the playoffs. Or even .500. Shanny or McVay weren’t available but I think even if they were, the scoreboard would be heavily tilted to KC imo. Just really crappy luck. Curse of Bambino esque.

You doubled down on the Adam Gase thing lol. Wow. Here's something to think about. Adam Gase had Ryan Tannehill in Miami. Adam Gase was fired because the Dolphins were going backwards. Tannehill who was considered done after his stint with Gase, was traded to the Titans for a 6th round pick. Tannehill under Vrabel, won Offensive Comeback Player of the Year Award, won the division multiple times, signed a big contract extension etc....after he got away from Gase. Lets take a look at Sam Darnold. His first year under Bowles, showed promise. The great Adam Gase took over and got Sam Darnold by year two. The Jets drop to 31st in scoring lol. Year 2 under Gase. Jets go 2-14 but improve to 26th in scoring lol. Gase was fired. Darnold was in the MVP race last year and signed and signed a $100 million dollar contract with Seattle lol. Darnold's first two coaches were Gase and Matt Rhule. Gee...wonder why he struggled. But yes, Adam Gases regime would have developed Allen as well as McDermott's regime. Wow. https://jetswire.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/jets/2021/01/26/chris-harris-says-peyton-manning-taught-adam-gase-broncos-offense-jets-dolphins/79823934007/

Look how long it took Reid before he finally won a Super Bowl. The Bills can't wait that long if they want to win one with Allen. He will be 30 soon. Still has plenty of time but the clock is ticking. I will say it again that McDermott is a good coach who turned the Bills around from a losing organization to a winning one. But I have my doubts he will win a championship here.

The Eagles didn't just move on for not winning a championship with Reid-- I think a lot of people forget the circumstances there. They moved on after they spent big in a 2011 off-season where they were called the "dream team", and then proceeded to miss the playoffs and win only 8 games. This was followed by a 2012 season which was a complete implosion: they won 4 games that year and finished with two QB's on their active roster: a washed up Mike Vick and... Trent Edwards. Most coaches no matter how good they are, will be fired after two seasons of that nature when the QB situation is in flux and you're prime for a rebuild. The Bills will always be likely to keep McDermott if he maintains a stranglehold on the division with double digit wins and Josh as a healthy active starter, even if the playoff success is middling. But if we have a disaster-type season like the 2012 Eagles did? I think it shouldn't even be a question to move on.

That is the tough part. There is no guarantee the next HC would be better than McDermott. If Sean were fired, he would be unemployed for about 5 seconds. At the same time how, many years does he get to bring a championship to Buffalo. Allen isn't going to be playing at an elite level forever. The Eagles eventually moved on from Reid when he couldn't win a championship, and he had more success there then Sean has had in Buffalo.

Allen slips on that pesky rubber mat at practice the day before AFCCG!

I wouldn’t bet my career with Whaley. Yes, Mahomes is great. Using the capital gained from that trade was used to get Allen. That is a wash. Mahomes wasnt setting records with Charles Clay, Andre Holmes, Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones and Robert Foster. Its a butterfly affect that will never play out, but Mahomes doesnt come to Buffalo with Reid, Kelce and Hill.

Good question? Take a look at the Bills' 2017 roster and get back to me. LOL! Watt was passed-over by 27 teams. And again the Bills got Allen the following year so not even worth mentioning.

Yeah, sorry. There's at least 10 coaches in the NFL right now that I think are able to clown Mac Jones and old broken Cam Newton and Zach Wilson and Mike White and Skylar Thompson and Bailey Zappe with Josh Allen at QB for 5 straight seasons. It's really just not that impressive. My old take is that if you have to debate if a player is good all the time, they probably aren't. We used to debate Tyrod and Fitzy all day every day. The moral of the story was that they weren't good. We don't debate Josh Allen, because there is no reason to. We debate McD every day. I'm leaning toward he's in the Tyrod Taylor tier of HCs.

The 2015 Broncos lost their elite QB midseason. When you have an elite, franchise QB, the floor is set regardless of the coach. At a minimum, the expectation is double digit wins and playoffs. It doesn't matter if you have Mike McCarthy or Sean McDermott or John Haurbaugh etc etc. If the Bills fired McDermott tomorrow and hired Joe Blow from University of Arkansas, my expectations would not change for the 2025 season. If Josh was lost for the season, my expectations WOULD change. I wanted the Bills to hire BB 2 years ago and Ben Johnson last year. Next year, there will be another couple good HC candidates. Maybe Shanny gets canned if the 9ers extremely disappoint or LaFleur if the Packers fall apart. Maybe Joe Brady is looking like he gets poached, I wouldn't mind giving him a shot if he impresses this year. Any of those guys may be my answer next year. McD will probably not get fired. Those guys will probably get hired elsewhere. And you will ask "who do you want that doesn't have a job already." Rinse repeat.

None of that matters because you said it doesn't matter when you have Josh. Now it matters lol. Understand that I'm not using these as legit arguments. I'm simply copying FireChan's arguments to show him how ridiculous the points he's making. I understand context....

Again this "what would McDermott be with QBX" or "what would Allen by with HCY" are hypotheticals. It also depends heavily who are you replacing them with. Is it McDermott with a 5th-12th type QB? Or a 13th to 20th type QB? Or a bridge at best guy? Is the mythical head coach replacement for McDermott a proven NFL HC? Is it a hotshot coordinator or is it a guy who you seriously consider the basic competence of - see Hackett etc. I just don't know that it is a very fruitful line of argument. Quarterback matters more than Head Coach. We all know and accept that as a truism of the NFL and the Bills will always have a chance to be good with Josh Allen. But the Saints had four losing seasons in five years during the peak of a future first ballot HoF QB and a likely future HoF HC. The NFL is just way to complex and way to nuanced to ever boil down to 1+1 always = 2.

Oh I think BB would probably have multiple Superbowls with Mahomes. Probably multiple division titles too. the "still be employed" part was just the floor of my thoughts. He definitely would not have been fired. In that universe, McDermott is probably already gone in Buffalo and Josh is probably closer to Justin Herbert in terms of career accomplishments with a clearly superior HC coaching circles around them in the division. Adam Gase got a head coaching job because when he was OC of Peyton Manning, their offense was sick and Denver was winning 12 or 13 games a season. Nate Hackett got a head coaching job because when he was OC of Aaron Rodgers, their offense was sick and Green Bay was winning 13 games a season (Rodgers won 2 MVP with 'ol Hackett at OC). Those examples prove my point. Lesser coaches with inflated accomplishments.....because they had elite QBs. Well this may be an unfair question because its so long after the fact, but did you think John Fox "deserved" to be fired in Denver after 2014?