MDH

Do you know he wasn't? We can go round and round all day with this. There's enough information out there to make an educated guess. That guess suggests that he'd be there at 42. If he wasn't, so what? You can't target specific players and go out of your way to make sure you select them. You have to have faith that your scouting department is good and let the draft come to you. The only way you trade up to select a player is if there is overwhelming evidence that multiple teams have that player targeted. Based on the info out there it doesn't seem like that was the case.

The Bills have used 3 selections on these two players. Now, it's impossible to know exactly how the rest of the teams (and more importantly, the teams drafted around the Bills) have valued these players. But there's enough information out there to take a pretty good guess. Getting good value out of this draft would have been moving down a few spots in the first round and picking up a 3rd. Then, staying put at the 42nd pick and taking the best available DT or OL on the board (this draft is DEEP, there would have been some good ones available). Then the Bills would have 3 picks left in the 3rd, instead of one. That's 2 more picks in the first 3 rounds and THAT equals value. No matter how these players turn out the Bills didn’t get value based on how these players are rated today (and right now that’s what matters). The Bills fell into the trap of falling in love with very specific players and have sacrificed the rest of the draft because they feared they might not fall to them.

Exactly. If the Bills have McCargo as the 20th best player in the draft and the rest of the league has him at roughly the 50th it's a mistake to take him in the first round, period. Even if McCargo ends up being the 20th best player in the draft. A team has to understand a player's value and that value is determined by how the entire league rates a player. The thing is I don't think the Bills have misunderstood the player values (it's not a tough concept after all). I think they've made the mistake of having very specific players they want and they're throwing value out the window to get them because they don't feel comfortable with the other players that they have rated similarly. A team absolutely cannot go into the draft saying, "We HAVE to have THIS player!"

So according to your post no matter who the Bills selected. And I litterally mean NO MATTER WHO you'd sit there and reserve judgement?

You obviously don't understand the issue here. It has nothing whatsoever to do with how good a player ends up being.

These guys have a pretty good idea of how the league values most of these players. They speak with GMs, coaches and scouts daily. It's how they're able to give a pretty accurate value to each player. They won't be able to pick exactly where the players go but they're good at projecting the general area they'll be selected in.

On the McCargo pick they should have said, "one of the biggest reaches we've seen...since the Bills last pick."

If they grab Justice I don't have a problem with the move as long as they didn't give up too much to do so.

I'm not defending the pick by any means, it was horrible. I'm saying the draft played out as badly as it good for the Bills in terms of making a pick at the 8 spot (not trading scenarios). Brick didn't fall, Hawk didn't fall, Huff didn't fall. There was absolutely nobody on the board (IMO) that represented true value for the Bills at 8. On the other hand the draft worked out pretty well if the Bills wanted to trade down. Unfortunately that didn't happen...

Not to mention we had one of those "All Pros" on the roster and Marv cut him, thereby creating a huge hole. No, I'm not claiming Milloy was great last year but when healthy he's a middle of the pack SS which is good enough. There was no need to cut him and create this huge hole in the D. Same thing goes with Sam Adams. If the Bills were up against the cap I'd understand the moves, but they're not.

I'm not a big fan of the Bills wasting picks to move up in the draft but I wouldn't mind seeing them make a reasonable trade to move back into the first round and grab Justice or Winston.

Past results are not indicitive of future results. I have no problem passing on Bunkley or Ngata, this draft is deep at DT. There was really nobody there at 8 that I would have been really happy about. The draft just played out about as badly as it could for the Bills in the first 7 picks.

Most of the mocks I saw had Joseph pegged in the 24-30 range. A few had Cinci taking him.

Fair enough. I misunderstood your original post, my bad.

Yeah, unless you're happy with the selection you're part of the retard rollercoaster. Talk about a retarded PoV. It couldn't be that there's actually a way to have a logical problem with the selection. I notice that everybody calls the posters who are conistantly critical of the Bills names on yet they're right year after year. I think it's time for another DOOOOOOMMMMED post.

Luckily the only Olineman taken thus far is Ferguson, so odds are there will be a good one there at the 42nd pick.

You actually think the players should try to lose? I'm not happy about the win but there's a differenc between that and having the players purposely tank the game. I don't think I'd want a single player on my team that would agree to tank a game even if the front office told them to.

Using your rational you can defend any pick the Bills made. There's no guarantee ANY player will be there if they trade down but it shouldn't prevent the Bills from trying to get value from the pick. The only way this pick makes sense is if they had Whitner rated way higher than anybody else left in the draft and didn't want to risk losing him in a trade down. Otherwise they could have moved down and if Whitner isn't there you draft one of the other guys you have similarly rated.

How is Bunkley a two-down player? Sure they'll rotate DTs but Bunkley can play on any down.

Why was that a position of desperate need? Oh, because Marv cut the starter. Milloy wasn't great but with him back there (healthy) SS is not a desperate need.

Yeah, because there would be no safties left on the board after the 8 spot...

That's exactly right, and it doesn't matter if the stock ends up being worth $200 a few years from now. You could have gotten a 400% return on your money instead of 200% and used the left over $50 on another stockthat had the potential to give a decent return as well.

Great, so our front office is on par with Matt Millon. Thanks for the good news.

Where'd you hear this?

Who cares if it's close to value if you're going to just pick the guy anyway. You take ANY offer before you pick a guy that will be there 7 picks later.