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That's where Hughes being a Drought Era into the beginning of the ascent of Allen hurts him. Had he been here for 11 years and 3 Super Bowl Appearances like Hansen was - he'd have more of a shot to make it like Hansen did. As I think most fans would agree Hansen is a bit of a fringe worthy Wall of Famer himself, mostly there for being a member of the Glory Days teams and his 11 year tenure.

I touched on this in the last paragraph of my post.

https://www.buffalobills.com/team/alumni/wall-of-fame There are a total of 25 players in the ENTIRE history of the Bills up on that Wall. There hasn't been a player between Phil Hansen and now that have gotten that nod yet. And yes, that is how it works. Just like the Hall of Fame. Only the tippy top of different eras are going to make the cut. You might think him deserving. But there are many more that are more deserving that would be more likely to get consideration before him during his tenure with the Bills. And only so many (very few) are going to make the final cut.

Jerry Hughes was a good Bill and I respect him and his tenure here. But he doesn't make the Wall. His era is mainly the drought era. When it comes to the drought era, we're not going to put up many guys. Kyle Williams will certainly be up there before Jerry Hughes. Fred Jackson being the 3rd all time rusher for the Bills would go up before Jerry. Even at his own position - Aaron Schobel had just as long of a tenure as Jerry, went to two Pro Bowls (Jerry went to none), and had better numbers here than Jerry - and I don't think he's making it up on the Wall. So I don't know how Jerry does. And when it comes to the post drought era - there's going to be so many above Hughes when it's all said and done and there's only so many spots on the Wall.

Yes, but again, we never got the full list of 30. There were visits that weren't reported. And again, we held an interview with him at the Combine and were at his Pro Day.

We never got the full 30 list so we don't know that McDuffie wasn't brought in. But we do know they met with him at the Combine like they did Elam. And again, his being patient and then getting proactive only after McDuffie came off the board paints a picture to me that he was cool with letting the board come to him and taking one at 25. Though that's not to say he would have picked McDuffie over Elam if both were available to him. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2022/5/7/23059841/buffalo-bills-tried-to-trade-up-to-22-to-snag-cb-kaiir-elam-but-settled-for-23

I don't think it's ever been outright said. But if you take Beane at his word and read between the lines of his actions - it's pretty obvious. It would be ridiculous to think Beane had a 2nd Round grade on Sauce Gardner and Derek Stingley who were gone in the first 4 picks. So there's two right there. Beane was patient, stood firm, and let the board fall to him as long as McDuffie and Elam were both still on the board. The second McDuffie came off the board at 21, he started making calls to move up. I don't think this is a coincidence. He stated he couldn't get a deal done at 22 and ended up pulling the trigger at 23 for Elam. Of whom he said was "the last player left on the board we had a 1st Round grade on". So that would be your 4. Now if Elam was gone too and we went with Gordon, Booth, or McCreary do I think it's possible he still would have said they were "the last player left on the board with a 1st Round grade"? It's possible. But again, if we're taking him at his word - it sure paints a picture that he only had 4 CB's with Round 1 grades.

As is often the case on this board, this thread has become an argument of two extremes with the reality being somewhere in the middle. Jerry Hughes was a good to, at times a number of years ago, very good player. He GREATLY overachieved his expectations when we traded away a bag of balls for a player who was considered a bust and being given a last shot with a change of scenery. He was at his best when he was on the line alongside Mario Williams and Marcell Dareus in their Pro Bowl prime, while they garnered the most blocking attention. His intensity, leadership, and availability secured him a long term role on this team as a respected veteran He was often considered a PFF analytic favorite for his ability to "win" at the line against his blocking. However, this stat somehow didn't equate to a large number of sacks, especially in his last few years with the team. Ultimately, he wasn't as bad or overrated as some posters say he was. But he's also a guy who was never an All-Pro or even made the Pro Bowl. Some posters are truly overvaluing him, especially at this stage of his career. I will remember him fondly. Along the same lines and somewhere between that of a Phil Hansen and Aaron Schobel. But if you watched us take a DE in 2020 with our top (albeit 2nd Round) pick, following it up going back to back at DE with our 1st & 2nd Round picks in the 2021 Draft, you were a fan of his, didn't realize what that meant for Jerry on the last year of his contract we didn't extend and didn't prepare yourself - you were living in denial, plain and simple. Especially after covering the slower than ideal development of some with the signing of Von Miller. The writing was on the wall since April of last year.

It's not happening. There's a list of teams in on him and we're not one of them. And while we're often in on players that the press isn't aware of, there are teams that are in on him that have more money and a long term starting role available. That isn't available here. We're not going to pay him the kind of money he will command for the type of role he'd have here and he wouldn't pass on his other options for the kind of role he'd have here. Bradberry is the fall back plan for teams that didn't secure a top option at CB in the Draft or the teams that did and still don't have much on the other side.

Hughes was a good player for us for a number of years. I respect all the work he put in and it's sad his prime came before the team's prime. We spent the last 3 offseason's preparing for his exit. Von Miller's signing signaled a changing of the guard in the Edge Rushing room. With everything they've done in the Draft and FA since 2020 - the writing was on the wall that he wasn't getting another contract. In Houston, he gets to go home and quite possibly start. Though it appears to me that they aren't interested in winning many games this season, going with Davis Mills at QB. I'd imagine they plan on trying to land their next Franchise QB in the 2023 Draft. I get loving long tenured players. But it's time to let go and move on. Long tenured players are moved on from teams every offseason. We won't be giving up a Draft Pick and making a mid season trade for him unless there is serious injuries along the Edge. So we really shouldn't be rooting for that.

Yes, he's still a Free Agent. Which speaks to what the rest of the league thinks of what he offers at this point in his career.

Maybe. But even if he was, there's truth in the sarcasm. You don't spend a 2nd and a 5th on someone and then not give them every opportunity to validate the investment. Teams don't throw away premium picks within the first two rounds for nothing. Cody is being given his 4th opportunity, though he has to earn it this season. To not develop and label guys as "JAG's" before their 2nd or 3rd years in Epenesa and Basham after making such an investment in is not how GMs operate.

Lol that's a bit of a leap. I'm just intrigued to see the final list as there's often more signings than what was leaked and I'm interested in seeing how many roster spots are left and to take a look at any other guys that may be coming into camp.

So are we waiting until the start of Rookie Minicamp before we officially announce the full list of UDFA signings?

Here you go bolding everything again like the under 30" CB arm post you tried to claim after you edited the post that it wasn't about McDuffie, who ended up being the first CB drafted after Sauce and Stingley and wasn't even on the board when we picked. And just like that post, you're completely disregarding all other factors and pointing to one thing as the be all, end of any other conversation points. You call it "changing the conversation". I call it bringing up factors that you want to completely disregard. You keep talking like Jerry Hughes is going to win us a Super Bowl. When the League has determined he's no longer close to what he was by literally every team in the league passing on giving him a starting role or one that gets substantial reps. If he is still as good as you believe he is - he wouldn't come back here for the role he'd be asked to play at this point. Ultimately, if it was the no-brainer, simple as that decision as you claim - we'd have made the move by now.

Outside of the points of change in practice times precipitating QB's no longer doing that role league wide, Matt Barkley won't be on the 53. We'll carry Josh and Keenum on the 53. Barkley will be on the Practice Squad, taking over Davis Webb's role last season.

That and he was an even bigger investment than Epenesa and Basham were. We spent a top 10 pick in the 2nd Round and a 5th Round pick to trade up for him. These types of investments are going to get at least 3 years of development.

Exaggeration much? You are comparing apples to oranges here. We also brought in Von Miller at Edge with these guys on the roster. I'm not advocating these guys should have started. But you've already decided they're "JAGs" after a season and a half of Epenesa and 8 games of Basham. You're arguing they should not only not start, they shouldn't even be given rotational reps AT ALL, possibly sacrificing the future for a guy who has none - while also comparing 2nd Round investments to 5th and 7th Rounders 🙄

Epenesa has played 2 years. You know who was considered a total bust after 3 years and given away for essentially a bag of balls? Jerry Hughes. I don't know that Epenesa or Basham will become great or not. And neither do you. The only way to know is for them to at least get rotational reps. You'd have us not do that and give up on Epenesa before the Colts gave up on Hughes.

You are completely missing the point. It's not about Hughes v. Epenesa and Basham last season. It's not about who's viewed as better right this second by message board fans. It's about development. It's about investment. It's about what could be and finding out whether they can or can't. We know what Jerry Hughes is. He's not getting better. If you think he's the same guy he was 4 or 5 years ago or isn't actively declining - you're fooling yourself. After a half of a season with Basham and 2 seasons of Epenesa - we don't know what they could become in their 2nd or 3rd years. Especially along Von Miller and DaQuan Jones in place of Hughes and Lotulelei/Phillips with Kaiir Elam behind them in place of Levi Wallace. And just disregarding them and burying them on the depth chart will hamper their development into what they can be. They aren't chalking those picks up as lost causes and it would be foolhardy to do so. There's still time and room to grow. That doesn't exist with Jerry Hughes at this point in his career. They were Drafted in large part because of Hughes age and decline in play. The lack of pass rush that he was providing. We must try to develop them and see what they can or cannot become. We spent 2 2nd Round picks on them. You have to be more patient than taking important reps away from them in years 2 and 3. And your idea of keeping 6 DE's - we won't be dressing 6. So one player will be barely used if at all as the 5th and one won't dress as the 6th. We'll also need to carry an extra CB on the roster with White's injury to start the season. Possibly an extra Lineman with Boettger's. And possibly another TE with Howard surely getting more usage as the #2 than Sweeney did. I'd be surprised if we kept 6 DE's again. You're oversimplifying matters that aren't as simple as you'd like them to be. "k bye"

Sacks and Tackles. The stats that actually matter. I'm laughing at a .9 differential in PFF rate as an argument point. Hurries and Win Rate are great, but not when you can't get the sack which has been the story of Hughes for the past couple years now. It's why we've been drafting Ends and ultimately decided to bring in a guy like Von Miller. I'm not "posturing" anything. I DON'T know that 34 year old Hughes can be better than what Basham or Epenesa can be this season. And you don't know that either. They're 23 and 24 respectively. We've seen two full seasons of Epenesa. Guys can be late bloomers. You know who was a late bloomer? Jerry Hughes. Basham has a total of 8 games under his belt. You're ready to say you know who someone is and can be after 8 games? C'mon dude. We spent back to back 2nd Round picks on these guys. At the very least, we have to let them get rotational work and experience to see what they can or cannot become. You don't invest what we've invested in them and not use them or allow them to get experience as rotational pieces.

You're right, we are trying to win a Super Bowl. That's why we replaced him with Von Miller. I think you're greatly overvaluing what Jerry Hughes brings to the table at 34 years old. If he were the difference maker you think he is, he wouldn't be on the market still. And it's laughable to say he's "maybe" better than Rousseau at this point in his career. All you have to do is look at Hughes stats last season v. Rousseau's in his first games in the NFL (with room to grow this season) to see that. He is declining. Your opinions of Epenesa and Basham are irrelevant. We spent two 2nd Round picks getting them. One is entering his 2nd season in this league and the other his 3rd. You don't make the kind of investments we made in them and then give up on their development, in Basham's case after one season. You don't know what they could develop into. If fans take their emotions out of it, look at how we've treated him this offseason, the things Jerry has posted, how he looked last season, how we addressed the position this offseason, and what he'd be being asked to do this year - the answer is obvious.

He's not coming back. It makes no sense. He'd be coming back for pennies on the Dollar with his role as Starter and Leader of the Edge Rushers room replaced with Von Miller. His reps would be a third of what he had here his entire tenure (he'd surely get more opportunities almost anywhere else) and would keep younger players with high draft pick investments from getting more experience. Doesn't make sense for the Bills, doesn't make sense for Jerry. Fans having a soft spot for him after all his years here and liking the idea of him being in the building if we won a Championship this year is no reason to sign someone. If Jerry were in the Bills plans this season, they'd have re-signed him early in FA. They wouldn't leave such a respected veteran twisting in the wind and then thrown a bone at the end of FA. And they probably wouldn't have brought back Shaq Lawson as the second or third situational pass rusher off the bench, which is all Jerry would be here at this point.

Might want to ask the Bills fans who pre-purchased Super Bowl tickets last season or the ones that bought tickers the season before that if they think it's a wise investment.