BillsFanForever19

Even that isn't nearly enough apparently. Per Benjamin Albright, the reported price tag is Two 1st's plus a Pro Bowl Calibur Player "to even get the conversation started" https://www.si.com/nfl/cowboys/news/patrick-surtain-trade-rumor-dallas-cowboys-outrageous-asking-price-broncos-cost-deadline

The only thing I'm expecting us to do is Trade Elam for whatever we can get. Hopeful we can get at least a depth player at CB, DT, or LB. But *expecting* a serious difference maker is to set yourself up for disappointment.

Yeah, I would need to know what his parameters are on an extension and if he would sign one and if we would be willing to pay it before offering anything higher than a 3rd.

Elam should field a 3rd on the highest end (if there's competition), more likely a 4th or a 5th. I'm not offering a 2nd and a 3-5 unless I know we can get him back. That's a steep price for just 9 games and the Playoffs (which isn't guaranteed right now). And it's not just as simple as just "extend him". He and his people more likely than not will want to test his market. I suppose we can get a 3rd or 4th comp pick back for him if we can't re-sign him. But that would include him getting a massive contract and us having to be conservative in FA, handicapped by making sure we sign less than we lose. Elam and a 3rd would be the highest I would possibly go. Especially if we don't know if he has an interest in a contract extension. It wasn't going to happen. That's too much money for us to pay for 9 games of a RB, let alone Draft compensation on top of it. Any slim hopes of it possibly happening went out the window with the Fournette signing this morning. We wouldn't have bothered with that if Henry was still in the equation.

It's pretty high for a guy on the last year of his deal. I'm not giving up a 2nd+ for someone who's only under contract for 10 games and the playoffs (if they make it). Makes me wonder if it was something we were in on and the Seahawks had to outbid to get him. If not us, probably someone because again, that's a lot for less than a year of a player.

Nope. He had an Achilles injury with us in his first workout with the team and went on IR.

No, he was released by the Chargers when they couldn't trade him and we just happened to be #1 on the Waiver Priority list at the time.

Exactly. It's not the NBA or the NHL where rentals are the norm. The trade deadline is generally a nothing burger league wide. Yet every year at this time the board is flooded with Trade for this guy or Trade for that guy. And if nothing happens tomorrow, people will be freaking out and saying Beane is asleep at the wheel. When the truth is, odds are, no one's going to do much of anything league wide. Trades are very rare. I'd be happy if we did anything. Even if it isn't a big needle mover and just a depth move.

I'm saying you cherry pick what people say. In particular you saying that all I said was "I hear what you're saying" and then disregarded it with more stats. Like I said, he will naturally drop some from 22nd in yardage and 4th in TD's. But he's not going to drop from 22nd to bottom of the league. He's consistently been at the top of WR2 metrics, outranking some #1's all season. And where are you getting these 28th and 40 numbers? He's 22 amongst WR's (lists include Kelce at TE) everywhere: https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?category=receiving&season=2023&seasonType=reg&sort=rec_yyds&sortOrder=desc https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/receiving.htm https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/category/receiving/2023/REG/all/receivingyards/DESC Like another poster has said in response to you - is he Elite? No. Is it possible to have a better WR opposite Diggs? Yes. But it's way more uncommon to have a better WR2 than Davis than you're letting on. There aren't "way more" teams with a better WR2 than Davis. There may be ones you personally would prefer because it's quite clear with your posts all year that you are not a fan of his. Like the poster said, you have absolutely nothing positive to say and go out of your way to shoot down anyone who has anything remotely positive to say. In a way, I get what you and Happy are saying. You want to win a Super Bowl and you both feel that to do so, having just one guy who is considered a top tier WR that would be a #1 on most teams is a must. But just because Davis isn't Diggs, doesn't mean he's not a good WR2. The metrics prove he is. He's just not a WR1.

So say that you really want two WR's who would be considered the top WR on most teams. And not that Gabe Davis isn't good enough to be a #2. Because that simply isn't true, by metrics this season. There are way more teams that have a worse option than Gabe Davis as their 2nd WR than there are ones that have better.

You cherry pick with the best of them. I didn't just say I'm aware and then give you more stats. I said I was aware, but that his statistics have consistently ranked in the highest end of #2 WR's. He's actually been above some #1's in production. When the week is over, he'll drop some naturally. But he'll still be in that range. But don't let me get in the way of your narrative. Or your consistent offensive and rude character.

And you have an incredibly short fuse. Consistently condescending or downright insulting people with almost all of your posts. You claim to not have an agenda against Davis but any time anyone points out anything positive, you go off. Yes, we are one of two teams who have played 8 games. I am aware. But the statistics have been consistently been extremely high for #2 WR metrics all season. After this week is finished, he'll drop some. But he's still going to be ranked very highly for a #2 WR.

Actually, he's 28th amongst WR's in Receptions. He's 23rd in Yards amongst WR's (there are TE's and RB's in the lists): https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/receiving.htm Discounting the production as "bulk stats" is silly. Players are judged by production. And bulk stats or not, that's good production. Exactly this. People around here want 2 #1 WR's. When the fact is statistically Gabe Davis measures VERY high for a #2. Could there be a better option? Yes. We could be one of the rare teams in the league that have two guys who would be considered #1 options. But he's nowhere near as awful as some posters like to claim he is. Especially compared to most #2 WR's.

I'm not opposed to adding Hopkins, especially at the cost of his remaining contract. But this idea that Davis has big production games and then doesn't have big production games is not uncommon amongst #2 WR's. You make it sound as though unless he produces like he did last week every single week, he's a total failure as a #2 WR. He currently sits at 23rd in the league in WR yardage and tied for 4th in the league in TD's by WR's. For a #2 in a league with 32 #1's, that's incredibly good statistics.

I mean, it's an out relative to a 98.5 million dollar contract. It would cost us 8 million dollars in Dead Cap to get out from under the deal next offseason. On top of the Draft compensation and what's left of his 20 million dollar cap hit this season. That's WAY more than we're going to pay for a guy for 9 games and the playoffs. Not feasible.

You're looking at things from a Bills fan point of view of "Super Bowl Title or Bust". And while logically, there is some sense to be made that the Defensive injuries and some of our inadequacies combined don't pass the eye test for a Super Bowl champion team - that's simply not how a Front Office looks at things. Front offices don't say "well, right now this doesn't look like a team that can hoist the Lombardi, so pack it in". The fact is we're 5-3 and still competing. Anything can happen in the NFL. Josh could get White Hot when it matters and overcome things. Players could step up and play at a level we hadn't imagined. Other teams along the way could become just as injury riddled. You never know in the NFL. And our unwanted contracts? Why would they be wanted by other teams? Bad deals like Dawson Knox, Jordan Poyer, or Poona Ford - teams aren't going to take those unwanted contracts off of our hands and on themselves AND give us compensation for the privilege of doing so. Kaiir Elam is the only player I could see yielding some kind of return as he was a 1st Round Pick just last year and is a bad fit in a Zone scheme Defense - but could work out in a change of scenery.

Agreed. Definitely want another solid player opposite Benford. But not at the price it would take to get Surtain.

Just came across this article where it's said the asking price is 2 1st Round Picks PLUS a Pro Bowl Calibur Player "just to get the conversation started": https://www.si.com/nfl/cowboys/news/patrick-surtain-trade-rumor-dallas-cowboys-outrageous-asking-price-broncos-cost-deadline As much as what you're saying makes sense that with Elam failing and Tre most likely not coming back, we'll need to address CB - that price is just WAY too much for one player. Especially when you consider our cap situation of 33 million over and the amount of other positions we need to upgrade and/or replace with the amount of FA's we have next season. It's more than just C and WR2. Miller and Rousseau are the only DE's we have under contract next season. Oliver is the ONLY DT we have under contract. Cook is our only RB. Poyer (who may need to be replaced himself) and Hamlin our only Safeties. And there's still other depth players that will need to be re-signed/replaced on top of those (and that doesn't take into account upgrades as well). Not to mention, we'd also have to replace the "Pro Bowl Calibur" player we'd need to package with the picks on top of it. We can't afford to give up our 1st Rounder next year. Let alone also the following year AND a stud player on top of that. We just can't.

Patrick Surtain II is a popular name amongst fans for a trade. But they aren't going to trade him. It's been said he's 1 of the, if not THE, core player they want to build around in a rebuild. It makes sense. No team sells off all of their parts in a rebuild. You need a core. They spent a top 10 pick on him just 2 years ago. And if he were available, the cost of a 23 year old, Top 10 Pick, Cornerback, with a clean bill of health, with 2 and a half years left on a Rookie contract, and who was a 1st Team All Pro just last season - would be MASSIVE. Probably multiple 1st Round picks.

It's particularly frustrating when he does it before a play and it gets to the refs late, the play plays out for us, it's a positive play, and then it gets negated because we find out he called Timeout before they play.

This is true. Stuff that gets reported on as rumors involving us before they happen, never happen. Fans work themselves up into a frenzy and threads are made for pages and pages and then nothing.

Only on Special Teams from what I saw.

I still can't get over the amount of posters and some respected posters at that, that were banging the table for him to be released because he had a quiet Pre-Season.

The "omg we need to make a trade on offense" crowd had a rough day today. High level performances by players like Dalton Kincaid, Gabe Davis, Khalil Shakir, and James Cook in a new look, non 12 personnel Offense that was cooking is going to temper the sense of urgency to make a move (if there were any to begin with).

It used to be a given that Josh was going to punch it in himself at the 1. Why are we not doing that anymore?