BillsFanForever19

I just started really diving into the WR's. This is a much better class than last year's and way deeper. Some of the guys who will be available later probably would have cost a full Round higher in another year. All the more reason to wait until our 4th pick for a double dip. Anyone who is considered a Slot WR at the Pro Level though - I'm not interested in, outside of a late round flyer. In Khalil Shakir and Dalton Kincaid, we already have two guys who work out of the slot that I want on the field as much as possible. Last season, all we had was slot WR's as depth. To the point where when Davis went down, we had no choice but to put Sherfield, Harty, or Shakir out wide. Stick to Tall, Fast, and Strong guys.

A lip reader translated what he said. I'm guessing he was sat down for being too amped up. "Keep me in you f-cker! I'm calm now!" Helluva way to show you've calmed down 😆 https://www.ladbible.com/news/sport/lip-reader-reveals-what-travis-kelce-said-coach-827965-20240212?fbclid=IwAR3yxYaeHb-PVScqek8bS3fgEn9d615Cn6fhpac8YP21BoGEajenp_qnx0E

We reportedly didn't get much in terms of offers for Elam at the deadline. If the offers continue to be a bag of balls like trade, I'd rather just hold on to him. Entering Year 3 of AJ Epenesa, he was written off just as much as Elam. And then he developed into a solid player. Some guys catch on immediately. Some guys are late bloomers and develop later. Elam was on IR for a good portion of last year. When he came on in relief in the Pittsburgh playoff game, he got an important INT. I'm not ready to just send him packing for nothing.

I covered the reasons in another thread, but it's not going to happen. I'd imagine he takes a paycut. But Hines is going to get Training Camp to show whether or not he's still got it.

Sort of true. I think there's guys out there that could keep the boat afloat until Josh comes back. If he's done for the year though, yeah, I don't see anyone there winning us a Super Bowl. But the best Backup's are surely going to be signed by guys who are Drafting a Rookie this season as a Bridge QB or insurance in the event that they deem they're not ready. Or as guys who can compete or provide insurance to QB's who are underperforming. That list includes Gardner Minshew, Ryan Tannehill, and Tyler Huntley. But even if those guys were available to be true Backup's, their price tag is going to be more than we're willing to spend on that role given our cap situation and the amount of holes we have to fill. Outside of that list, you're looking at guys like Jameis Winston, Tyrod Taylor, Jacoby Brissett, Sam Darnold, Marcus Mariota, Teddy Bridgewater, and Joe Flacco. Probably some guys on that list that will cost more than we're willing to pay too.

You'd rather have Kyle Allen? I think Trubisky is better than he is. We're not going to get a great Backup. They're few and far between and are backups for a reason.

There is no way for Nabers/Odunze. It's possible they're both gone by Pick 6. Practically a sure thing both will be gone by Pick 12 at the latest. It would simply cost too much to get that high and would almost definitely involve a 1st next year. They're great, but I don't see Beane moving two 1st's for anyone. You are almost 100% guaranteed to get one of the WR's on your next list. But as I see it, two of them is only happening in the following scenarios: 1.) We don't spend money on a veteran FA like Hollywood Brown. If we do, a 2nd Drafted WR would be behind Diggs (he's not going anywhere), the 1st WR we Draft, Shakir, Kincaid, and the Brown level vet in targets. You probably don't spend a Day 2 pick on a guy who's probably going to be 5th in the pecking order of targets. You definitely don't with someone who will be 6th - especially with the wide array of holes we have to fill. and 2a.) We trade down from 28 and pick up another 2nd or 3rd, so we have 4 picks by the end of Day 2, instead of 3. But in that scenario, you're def not getting Thomas Jr. and probably not Franklin either. It would be two from the second list. or 2b.) We trade up from Round 4 to get someone on the bottom of that 2nd list that fell to the late 3rd or early 4th. Allowing us to still get 2 starters at other positions before going back to WR.

It's his primary position. And for a reason. He has versatility wherein certain matchups and certain alignments, they can occasionally put him there. Just like we can occasionally split Shakir out wide. But if he could match up with everyone's outside long WR's, he wouldn't be playing primarily Nickel.

I think that was just people jumping to conclusions when we didn't move up for Elam until after McDuffie came off the board. The thought by some was that we liked McDuffie and Elam and were cool to stand pat, until McDuffie came off the board. At the time, I thought the same. But when I mentioned that around here at the time, posters all said the same thing - that McDuffie's a Nickel at the Pro level. Seeing as how that's how KC is using him as well (to great results), I really don't think we were looking at him to fill the role on the Outside. Nor does it make sense that we'd have spent a 1st on someone to replace Taron Johnson who was playing well already and developing at Nickel, when we had a hole on the Boundary.

I was commenting on someone discussing how upset they were that the Chiefs got McDuffie and we got Elam and the picks turned out the way they did. Regardless of what either of you think regarding McDuffie v. Taron (even if McDuffie is better, Taron was better than 30/31 other Nickels this season) - Taron was already a very good Nickel when we were Drafting. And we needed to fill the hole on the Boundary replacing Levi Wallace. McDuffie wouldn't have been the pick even if he were on the board. His height and arm length always meant he'd be a Nickel. Opining over McDuffie v. Elam is like being upset over someone getting a really good Guard when we were in the market for a Tackle.

I mean, it sucks that the Chiefs got a good player. But McDuffie's size and arm length pretty much guaranteed he'd be a Nickel CB. He's a great one at that, but so is Taron Johnson (McDuffie is 1st Team AP, Taron is 2nd) and we already had him in house. We weren't in the market for a Nickel CB. We needed a Boundary CB.

Yeah, it was Mongo, Flair, Arn, and, who was that other guy? Oh.... yeah. Awkward. Needless to say - no one's going to be replaying anything of Mongo with the rest of the Horsemen on WWE TV programming or released on home video, through no fault of his own. Shame.

Thank you. I agree with the sentiment that we need to focus on getting Josh help. Finding young starters on Day 2 and inexpensive FA's on Defense instead of expensive FA's and 1st Round Picks. But people are going overboard with the hyperactive ignoring of the Defense entirely with their all WR mocks and trades that involve starting players who have no business starting, with no depth behind it. We can do both. Focus on Offense and also not put out the kind of Defense we had when we were playing KC, or worse.

I mean, I agree with the sentiment of having everyone on hand and them underperforming. But considering Floyd wasn't a hundred, Daquan wasn't having the same impact he was prior to the injury he had returned from, Phillips was lost for the year, and Von never came close to sniffing 100% all year - "fully healthy" isn't completely accurate.

Somebody tell San Fran that investing in Defensive players is a waste of time against KC.

I disagree with this. I believe when you have Josh Allen, you always have a chance. It took Peyton until 31 before he did it with the team that Drafted him. Josh Allen is 27 years old. It's not a matter of if we don't do it this year, it will never happen. And if we did this and it didn't happen this year, it'd be even harder then it needs to be to get back the following year. What does replacing Von next year either way have to do with the fact that you're giving away key assets to be able to do so? As it is, you've mentioned using that 2nd (our first pick in your scenario) to replace both our Starting WR hole from Diggs and our Starting Center hole from Morse. I see your point of view in a sense. And I agree that we need to worry less about other positions and worry more about the Offense. But you can do that without going completely overboard. Replacing starters with 2nd and 3rd Round picks instead of 1st's or big money FA's is focusing less at those places. Just having *A* X WR opposite Diggs with 1st Round talent would help him and be an upgrade over what we had when we lost to the Chiefs by 3. This is a good WR draft. I mean, you're operating as if us getting Josh a Brian Thomas Jr. or a Troy Franklin is akin to doing him dirty. The guy we get in Round 1 could be an Elite talent with Josh. Marvin Harrison Jr. could have a catastrophic injury right out of the gate. The best WR in the Draft last season was drafted in round 5. You just never know. Ultimately, this may be how you feel things should go. But Beane has said time and again that he will not put the team in a position where they aren't competitive every season. He's not going to go all in on one year and say to hell with next year. Also, as @GunnerBill has said, I don't think Arizona would even take the trade anyways.

It's not just depth and it's not just about this year. You'd have us unequivocally starting Von Miller at DE following how he looked last year, with our only insurance there being Shaq Lawson. Replacing Bernard with a reserve level MLB QB'ing the Defense, who hasn't played that role since 2022. And then next year when we'll need to find another starting WR to replace Stefon Diggs, a starting DE to replace Von Miller, a starting Center to replace Mitch Morse, and a starting Right Tackle to replace Spencer Brown - we'll have 1 pick in the first 3 Rounds, a 2nd being our highest. You've given away our 2nd this year, so any hope to find someone to develop into those roles would have to be found Round 3 and later, where it's much harder to hit. Not to mention needing a number of those picks to fill the many holes this year. There's good reason as to why this is HIGHLY unlikely to happen. Any hope for a move up for Marvin Harrison Jr. went out the window when we went on that 5 game winning streak.

And that's why you Draft one in Round 1. You pair him with Diggs, Shakir, and Kincaid. That's 4 solid to very solid weapons. Last year we only had 3 as Gabe was either a non-presence or injured for the majority of the year, so we're already upgraded there. And we'll add more there early on Day 3. Maybe even a FA late in the process that becomes available or overplayed their hand and has to settle for less, like we did with Floyd at DE (more on that later) You're cool with Groot, Von, Shaq, and Jonathan as our DE's? It's not just Epenesa we're losing, but Leonard Floyd too. I like Shaq, but I need a little more insurance than that in the event that Von doesn't bounce back - and I'm more optimistic about that than most are. And as for the OL - I'm not talking about just this year. It's next year when we'll need to find a new Center and a new RT (or pay for Brown). As well as probably Stefon Diggs and Von Miller. And you're giving away our 1st and 3rd that year. I'm all for adding pieces. Drafting 1 in the 1st and another later on. But this? This is the Sammy Watkins trade on crack. I love Harrison as a prospect. Looks like a sure thing. But Sammy was also considered the most sure thing at WR in a long time too. And what happened? Did we learn nothing? The guy we'll get at 28 or with a minor trade up could end up to be just as good as Harrison, possibly even better. And you don't have to give up this metric sh-t ton of picks and a guy like Bernard to do it. The difference between a prospect like Troy Franklin or a prospect like Marvin Harrison Jr. is not worth adding in 60, 2025's 1st, 2025's 3rd, Terrel Bernard, and Kaiir Elam to me. I get prioritizing weapons, but you can't deprioritize everything else that much.

So 2 1st's, a 2nd this year, a 3rd next year, Terrel Bernard, and Kaiir Elam for Marvin Harrison Jr? Yeah, no, I'm good. As much as I'd love to have him, we're 52m over the cap. We have to find a starting WR. We also have to find (as I said above) a starting DE, a starting DT (and 3 more for rotation), a starting Safety (possibly 2) - plus other depth for this year. Dodson played OLB this year. He can play MLB, but the drop off from what Bernard was giving us would be massive. And Bernard could develop into even better than he was this year. Next year, 3/5 of our starting OL are FA's. Diggs might be out the door following this season. This scenario would have us having to fill everything else this year with what little cap space we can come up with and no pick higher than Round 3. And then next year having only Rounds 2, 4, and onward - while downgrading MLB. Absolutely cannot afford this in any way, shape, or form.

This is a good point and further points to the ridiculousness of going WR in 2 or all 3 of the first picks - like many are doing here. My focus has been on securing a starting WR in Round 1 and addressing the starting and rotational holes we have elsewhere this season. But it goes deeper than just this year. As you pointed out, past this season - we only have Connor McGovern and O'Cyrus Torrence under contract. While i'd expect an extension for Dion Dawkins, we'll need a new Center and while Spencer Brown was better last season, I'm not sure I'm ready to sign him up for an extension immediately. And behind Dawkins and Brown, we just have Ryan Van Demark, Tommy Doyle (who was on IR all last season and will be a FA himself next year). So long story short, on top of starting holes at DE, DT (and all rotating DT's as Oliver is the only one under contract), S (possibly two if we also move on from Poyer) - we also need to think about the O-Line for this season and especially next. We cannot afford to double down on WR in the first two Rounds and probably not even in Round 3. If we go WR Round 1 as expected, Round 4 should be the earliest we think of a double dip. And there's photos of Josh and his dad decked out in Patriots jerseys at a Pats game. That all goes out the window when it becomes your job.

I suppose nothing is a 0% possibility in the NFL. But this is as close as it gets. Your main argument is they have money. And we don't. But it would cost us money to move on from Diggs and we'd have to replace him on top of it. And if money is no object for them, why not just go out and pay for Texas A&M hero Mike Evans, who wouldn't cost them any Draft compensation? You also completely ignore one of the biggest issues at play here - why would we help 1 of the 3 other teams in the AFC who made it to the Divisional Playoffs? Brandon Beane is someone who is careful and looks at all possibilities. And it's easily possible if he made that trade that he'd have to stand up at a Podium at the end of the year and explain why he handed the Texans a weapon that helped eliminate us from the Playoffs. If he paid money to give a competing team a player that booted us from the Playoffs - that's a fireable offense. Your argument that maybe they look at Nico Collins as someone they wouldn't want to pay is dubious at best. If you Draft a guy, who at 24 years old is #8 in the NFL in Yardage, no GM would evaluate that and say "not worth paying". You don't see Top 10 WR's at that age on the market, like ever. Teams don't do that. Especially when your young QB became a star using that player as his #1 option and they're growing together. At 24, he could still get even better than he was this year. No GM is going to make it harder on themselves to bring back an ascending 24 year old star to bring in a 31 year old star. This whole concept you're arguing is a myriad of malpractice by both Brandon Beane and Nick Caserio. And comparing trades in the NFL to trades in the NBA really doesn't help the validity of your arguments.

Amen. Beane isn't going to do a massive trade up. Though given both his past with moving up a few spots for the guy he wants, the amount of picks we have, and with missing out last season after a run of FOUR WR's going in a row - I almost expect him to move up 2-3 picks to make sure he gets the guy he loves. But with Diggs (who isn't going anywhere, no matter how hard some people confusingly want to try to move on from him right now), Shakir, and Kincaid in house already, the addition of a 1st Round Pick, the amount of holes we have to fill, and the depth at WR in this Draft - I also see Round 4 as the soonest we should double dip our toes back into the water at WR. Get your #2, future #1 WR in Round 1. Get young starters at DL and S in Rounds 2 and 3. Don't spend a Day 2 pick on a WR who won't be better than 5th in targets behind Diggs, Round 1, Shakir, and Kincaid this season. Especially when we need Starters at 3, possibly 4 spots on Defense. And like I said, given the depth of the class, a Round 4 WR could still turn out to be very good.

Honestly, outside of Christian McCaffrey and Saquon Barkley, I don't know if there's a RB I'd rather have right now. But even with them clearly being the best in the NFL, that's only when they're healthy. Plus they're 3 years older with much more wear and tear. So even they would give me some pause. Cook is 24 years old and entering just Year 3 with a pristine bill of health. He's shown a steady growth of development and could get even better. Those facts make him extremely valuable beyond just the stats. Kenneth Walker is pretty great. I'm a fan. But he didn't put up the numbers that Cook did last year. His Rookie year was underwhelming and facilitated Seattle to spend another 2nd Round Pick on Zach Charbonnet the following year. I don't know if I'd straight up trade Cook for him, but it's very, very close. Breece Hall, is close. But his having a torn ACL right out of the gate would have me passing. I think there's people on this board who fell head over heels in love with him Pre-Draft and still hold a torch. Truth is, as @HappyDays said, he's got straight line speed. Other than that, I'm not convinced he's as versatile or elusive as Cook is. I was a big fan of Kamara, but he'll be 29 this year and the past couple years have seen a fall off. Cook reminds me of prime Kamara and could become that next season. Kamara is on the downswing now. Def wouldn't take him over Cook. The rest of the list, no. Not even really a question to me with those guys. Bijan Robinson is an interesting case. I think he could potentially be better and the pedigree coming out of College would have said it was a no brainer. But idk if it was just a bad Rookie year, bad blocking, or what. But he was overall disappointing in Year 1. Jahmyr Gibbs on the other hand, was not. Surprisingly the best Rookie RB this season. But I have to see more before i'd say for sure i'd rather have him.

I think considering we generally keep 5 DT's and we currently have only 1 on the Roster, 1 DT is kind of light. At the very least, we'd take 2 DT's and 1 DE in your scenario - considering between Groot, Von, and Kingsley we only need 2 DE's versus 4 DT's. I also don't see us keeping all 10 picks either (we have 9 now, but we'll have 10 after the Edmunds compensatory). Beane will use picks to move up at least once or twice to secure the talent he covets at the positions we're in need.