Generic_Bills_Fan

I wonder if things might’ve gone differently if Kincaid was healthy…the whole 12 personnel is a bit of a new wrinkle. this game legitimately scared me all week lol bill belichicks ex coaches always gave him a relative amount of trouble and they were never any good against anyone else. part of me feels bad for Daboll that would’ve been a huge win and their schedule gets softer in the second half. I don’t think things are looking good for him long term in ny as it stands. The Daniel jones contract has an out but it’s still a bit of a head scratcher

Giants defense was nearly flawless imo…they were able to disguise coverages long enough to get pass rushers home pretty much all night and their stunts were massively effective. I know it’s the ‘giants’ but that was probably the best opponent defensive performance we’ve seen all year couldn’t even help those OL out much…cook forgot how to pass block also

Didn’t he steal money from a police officers wife at a bar lol edit: yup people are mentioning that in here

Teams that are declared ‘bad’ are never allowed to improve week to week and never allowed any amount of credit lol that has had me miffed the last couple days. I keep reading ‘played down to their opponent’ but the giants defense was pretty close to flawless. Who even knew what those guys were capable of…they’re always on the field all game defending short fields because the Daniel jones led offense was absolutely atrocious Now people will say ‘oh the giants provided the blueprint and they’re not good so other teams will be able to replicate it’ which isn’t true either because disguising coverages like that without having any big blown coverages takes a tremendous amount of communication In this game compared to other bills games this year? I think that is entirely misleading as game plans vary week to week based on what the defense is doing. And how is ‘given the most amount of time’ calculated…tons of that time he bought himself in collapsing pockets. The whole second half the pressure was pretty much instant. not trying to argue for or against you saying josh had a bad game as there’s nuance involved and people can have their own personal opinions, but the oline objectively got steamrolled in this one

If Dorsey is bad Daboll is just as bad or worse lol pretty sure the rift between Daboll and McDermott started over Daboll not being able to run a successful running play in the first place. At the very least and the maximum good things you can say about Dorsey is at least we can run the football on a light box finally

Josh Allen ain’t leaving a team with his handpicked OC that has occasional offensive line issues but is a contender with one great wide receiver for a team with massive offensive line issues that is barely a contender even after he’s added to the team with 0 good wide receivers. It will not happen in a million years. Daboll will get fired by the giants and McDermott and Daboll will make up and become bffs LONG before josh willingly leaves buffalo for the giants There ain’t a lot of teams that don’t have the issues josh is experiencing now. Miami,philly,SF and maybe Detroit would be improvements but a few of those teams can’t support a big qb contract right now so they’d lose some pieces. Can’t even say kc anymore, I think josh and mahomes are finally on even playing field as far as supporting cast goes. That kc offensive line seems like it’s taken a step back and he’s got one reliable weapon also. Cincy has all the weapons but an even worse offensive line so things aren’t going very well over there either. defensive lines are just too good nowadays…offensive lines are getting more and more outmatched with each passing year to the point where it doesn’t even really matter who your skill position players are you’re not getting them the ball downfield lol

These people pingponging between ‘they’re gonna get josh killed’ and ‘josh Allen isn’t taking enough hits to make plays he should be sprinting headfirst into a pile of linebackers in random regular season games’ are pretty maddening 😂

I wouldn’t expect the refs to let teams get away with massive amounts of holding every week but you never know. I don’t think there’s a lot of reason to panic over this one. And even if they do, I don’t think dhop is a guy that’s gonna be able to beat it at this stage in his career just said this in another thread but the giants pulled off the kc playoff defensive strategy of play a lot of man and just hold everybody lol.

Not trying to say Dorsey is good by any means but it’s hard to evaluate a play caller when his offensive line is getting absolutely smoked. All the supposedly great OCs have looked like absolute poop in the games that happens to them too. Plays have broken down so fast the last two weeks that who even knows what the play design was…and josh is obviously going to look for diggs when sh*t goes sideways haha a good amount of these plays where he ends up going to diggs are backyard football type broken plays. when we have been steadier up front josh has spread the ball a lot the funny thing for me about Dorsey is any time he happens to dosomething right it feels like our players absolutely botch the execution 😂 Daboll/martindale def modeled their defense after those kc playoff defenses that frustrated him when he was with buffalo…line the DT up right over center and play man and hold like crazy on the back end. Refs allowed a lot of it both ways making that game a lot uglier than it needed to be (less flags though) can’t help but think we would’ve won pretty comfortably if they called holding a little tighter. You’re pretty much taking all the man beaters away when you play that way just gotta hope you get away with it…diggs is so good though that he can still get some separation so he was pretty much the only option

Yea that’s the play I was talking about…diggs got held which slowed him down a lot…didn’t look like an overthrow to me at all. Either way that was the right decision because diggs beat his man(men) anyway and nobody else did 😂

This is all overblown…josh got baited into a slant by a LB that dropped out late in the last game but I haven’t really noticed a lot of forcing the ball anywhere since week 1 where he was forcing it deep there was a play people are angry about where josh supposedly threw it to a double covered diggs but diggs had the double coverage beat for a td and the ball was exactly where it needed to be he just got held(no call of course). Davis was also open for a big gain on the first drive but he clearly got held(no call of course). Refs made this game look worse than it was by letting defenders absolutely manhandle passcatchers The holding was insane in this game lol had my conspiracy theory bells ringing that they were sick of blowout primetime games.. bills receivers were getting held all night. Hilariously ironic that the controversy of this game is one uncalled hold when there were dozens most of which were not in the bills favor

This is where I’m at lol I just don’t get it…if you’ve got diggs with an opportunity to catch the ball why would you pass it up to potentially target Davis or Knox….I think he’s gonna build a rapport with Kincaid too since he’s as sure handed as anybody plays have broken down nonstop the last two weeks I’d be lookin to diggs every time too. Can’t roll the dice on guys that can’t even catch wide open passes when you’ve got a limited number of chances to move the ball downfield the way the oline is playing I haven’t watched the video yet but I have seen people falsely criticizing multiple plays designed as a dumpoff to a rb with receivers in tight to block for them haha im gonna guess it’s that before watching

It just feels like the hindsight game to me personally but I respect the opinion for sure. Unless we could visit the alternate timeline where we punted there I guess we’ll truly never know 😂. the way I see it it was the odds of those two guys not connecting on a probably wide open pass and bass missing the fg vs running and punting and holding them but I can see people not interpreting it that way

I feel like you and I both know that is a massively exaggerated way to sum up how that play went wrong. I certainly respect the run and punt side of the argument but come on now lol it was a laughably wide open pitch and catch under 0 pressure. You could’ve called two random fans down there to play qb and TE and they probably complete that half the time 😂 a qb throwing lasers with instant pressure in his face all second half turning that wide open throw into a 50/50 ball was wildly unlikely but I def respect everyone’s right to criticize It’s just as likely elam gives up a big play and the giants end up punching it in on the run and punt situation to win the game and we’d all be sitting here criticizing that decision too.. they moved the ball down the sideline in chunks quite a few times

I do think the odds change a bit down the stretch where defenses start to get fatigued and they’re in four down territory…it’s not like they weren’t moving the ball all night. My thought is if elam wasn’t on the field we probably run once and punt but with a pretty moderate liability out there on defense they didn’t feel as comfy as they otherwise would have. There’s always a decent chance of a deep pi call these days completely neutralizing the field position advantage. your last sentence is what I really don’t understand but that could be a me thing I don’t think anyone is inherently wrong here lol the criticism side is factoring in the third and fourth down decisions as a lump single decision so why would the pro side not be allowed to factor in the odds of the Knox pass OR the fg succeeding. Those odds of winning the game were likely just as high or higher than the run on third down and punt. It wouldn’t have made sense to throw and then punt so the decision to kick the fg was more than likely made when that throw to Knox was called the alternative is to weigh the 3rd down play and 4th down play success rate separately…the criticism side doesn’t get to have it both ways imo. I explained my point way better here than my previous rambling nonsense post so hopefully nobody reads the old one 😂.

From talkin about this for awhile I think this is all a really interesting debate that can vary wildly based on how you assign probabilities to things. It’s true without a doubt that it would be questioned more if they lost. For me personally the coaches had a strong feeling that the throw to knox was a high percentage play based on what the giants defense had been doing to defend the run up to that point and it’s game over right there. it’s hard for me to personally say that part of it was a bad decision because it worked like an absolute charm…I think they hit that play probably 9 out of 10 times and much like they’re getting criticized now for it not working they’d look smart if it did. Can absolutely see the other side of it though As far as where the coaches were coming from I think they saw the odds of that play succeeding as much higher than a coin flip. Whether they should’ve or not is certainly up for debate lol

This is gonna be a big time agree to disagree I think 😂 obviously I’m not an nfl coach so you absolutely could be right but I’d imagine coaches plan for two play scenarios all the time…like a running play on third and medium because they have a passing play they like for fourth and short if they don’t pick it up. I think they absolutely crunch numbers on two play scenarios and likely had the thought that the fg is 50/50 when they called that play to Knox so factoring in the probability of both plays is exactly what they’re doing. If they didn’t have a passing play they liked on third down or didn’t like the odds of the fg they more than likely would’ve ran it and punted so the Knox catch probability is directly related to the fg probability. Again all speculation though because I am some dummy that watches the game from my couch lol I think they probably had a third and long passing play in mind before they even got the ball because that was the scenario they were most likely to end up in. I have trouble hating on the call because he was wide freakin open haha to each their own but when we’re evaluating the decision making of the coaches at the time I feel like I’d give a little bit more weight to the play design worked perfectly than the actual result. That’s certainly a personal taste thing though. If josh threw up a 50/50 ball to knox because nobody got any separation I’d be with the run and punt crew. I do get your point that they’re kind of separate events because you can technically punt after the throw to Knox but I think when the numbers get crunched they look several plays ahead. It was probably the odds of it being impossible to lose in regulation vs punting and playing defense when the Knox call was made and it’s personal taste whether that’s the right way to look at it. If the throw to Knox goes incomplete the giants have time and a timeout so the odds shift a good amount.

Giants got saquon back and their opponent lost their best player Daniel jones lol. In all seriousness though, Dexter Lawrence WRECKED the bills last night. Reminded me of all the times chris jones single handedly ruined us a few years ago. Pats just haven’t had that kind of impact player in the trenches this year Not as bad as the dolphins fans using the rings argument when they haven’t won one since the 70s

Offensive line problems, offensive line problems, and offensive line problems lol olines are just completely outmatched these days and the gap is getting bigger in favor of the defensive line. Even these ‘bad’ teams are loaded with disruptive players on the dline

The pi they actually called was way too ticky tacky to call a second in a row at the end of a game unless someone got straight up tackled with the ball in the air. I don’t have a problem with people complaining the second one was missed but the first one never should’ve been called imo…not the way that game was officiated. I was seeing a lot of grabbed jerseys

Tyrod is so much better than Daniel Jones for the giants current situation The whole thing is much ado about nothing. Jerseys were gettin grabbed all night (mostly by the giants). Two big uncalled holds killed bills drives

People aren’t really understanding the link between offense and defense it feels like…our defense can’t get anyone off the field which leads to worse field position, being behind on TOP, and the opposing defense stays fresher. the giants defense has been hung out to dry by their offense all year long so nobody really knows what they are capable of. They actually possessed the ball on offense decently for once which allowed that defense to fly all over the field for all four quarters. Usually they play well then gas out just before halftime because their offense has like 30 yards with 1 or 2 first downs lol then they put some long meaningless drive together in garbage time to even out the numbers a bit

Giants were holding all night on offense and defense…that seemed like their game plan as I’m sure Daboll watched the chiefs shut the bills down like that time after time when he was OC loL. its one of life’s greatest ironies that this much hoopla is being made about one missed hold late in the game. goal line/short yardage defense was outstanding. Second half josh was outstanding. Guys we haven’t had much faith in continue to play well on the defensive side.

Meh I wouldn’t say they got a gift…should’ve been pi late technically but the giants got away with a ton of holding all game long too. I was honestly surprised they called the first pi to close out the game based on what the giants were getting away with. davis got held on a probable td on the first drive…this pic everyone is using to illustrate we are apparently forcing the ball to diggs in double coverage diggs got held and that was a possible td also. Guys grab jerseys all night long it was kind of surprising to see it called late. Normally guys are only doing that late because they know they’ve been getting away with it. it’s tough to evaluate Dorsey… last year I think Josh’s elbow nuked the underneath passing game cuz his accuracy was shot and this year we’ve looked great when the offensive line holds up but those guys got absolutely steamrolled last night. Even these highly acclaimed play callers like Andy Reid and Ben Johnson’s offenses look pretty terrible when their offensive line is getting whooped. idk that the jags loss/almost giants loss are ‘all offense related’. It’s a little more nuanced than that. The defense couldn’t really get either teams offense off the field which really hurt field position and kept the opposing defenses fresh. The giants defense has been completely hung out to dry by their offense all season so we really don’t even know what those guys are capable of. Dexter Lawrence is a near Chris jones level beast. Look at their 40-0 loss to the cowboys, the cowboys had less offensive yards than we did last night if you can believe that lol

Diggs was actually the only one open on that play until getting held lol that’s exactly who the ball should’ve gone to and was probably a td…ball was put right where it needed to be. The ball is not at all getting forced to diggs…the giants baited him into some throws where linebackers dropped underneath and josh didn’t see them though