from_dunkirk

Sorry if this has already been posted (this thread is way too long already), but: 1. Has there been another retirement of a player in his prime as significant as this? Perhaps Barry Sanders? Or Michael Jordan in the NBA? 2. Does this make Houston the favorite in the AFC South?

I did not know that! Thank you. I was too young back then. I will go ahead and edit my original post.

Haha! Thanks! In my research, I did find a number of preseason games that had been cancelled due to things like field conditions or a lockout. My only hope is the Bills game vs. Minnesota is cancelled so they don't get slaughtered with Tyree Jackson playing all or most of the game.

I have done further research: 1. Since 1976, Super Bowl winners have been 160-70-1 in the preseason. This averages to a winning percentage of 0.596. (Remember, this includes two seasons--1976 and 1977--when teams played 6 preseason games. This also includes the 1985 Giants who played 5 preseason games due to the HOF Game). 2. The average preseason win loss total for these 43 Super Bowl winners is 2.47 - 1.63 - 0.02. 3. The mode record for preseason wins for Super Bowl winners 3-1, with 15 seasons. A close second is 2-2, with 13 seasons. Only 6 SB winners had preseasons of 1-3. 4 were 4-0. 1 was 0-4. The 4 others were 5-1, 3-3, 4-1, and 1-2-1. Bottom line: it pays to have at least a 2-2 preseason record or better. 35 of the past 43 SB winners were 0.500 or better in the preseason. Also, New England was 2-2 in the preseason in 2007, the year they went 16-0 but lost to the Giants in the SB.

Doing more research, I see that four teams since 1976 have gone undefeated in the preseason at 4-0 and also won the Super Bowl that season: 1990 - NY Giants 2000 - Baltimore 2003 - New England 2013 - Seattle The Giants almost did it in 1985 too when they won the SB, going 4-1 in the preseason (losing the HOF Game, and then winning the next four). And Oakland was 5-1 in 1976 when they played 6 preseason games. Agreed. It used to be more exciting though when they had a round of cuts after each preseason game in the 80's and 90's perhaps. Yep, that is really bad. I'm too lazy to do the research, but I have to imagine that is the worse or one of the worse percentages for preseason in the NFL.

In 1982, Washington went 0-4 in the preseason, but won the Super Bowl in a strike-shortened season in which their regular season record was 8-1: https://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/washington-redskins/results/1982 Lucky you! I was in Buffalo (Dunkirk actually) at the time and it was blacked out for all of Western New York...I think. Or maybe it was that I had to go to bed since it was late and I cheated by turning the radio in bed on at the end of the game??? Hmmm...I can't remember now.

Oh duh! I meant Gregg Williams! We used to have a Mike Williams on our roster, two actually. ? And for some reason I also got "the Dougs" (Whaley and Marrone) confused with a hypothetical "the Mikes" when I was thinking of "Mike Williams"and "Mike Mularkey". I will go back and edit. Thanks for catching that.

Haha, good post! The regular season results you posted were a mixed bag, but one thing I would like to point out is during the 1982 season, the Bills actually started 2-0 before the strike, with a stunning come-from-behind win against Minnesota in game 2. I was in 6th grade and listened to the game on the radio in bed, since it was blacked out, as usual, lol. The Bills went 10-6 the year before. SI (was it Paul Zimmerman??) even predicted Buffalo would win the SB that year after they lost a close one to the AFC Champion Cincinnati Bengals in the 1981 playoffs. Then the strike came and ruined their momentum. The Bills went 2-5 and things snowballed from there. And Chuck Knox left for Seattle in 1983 since Ralph Wilson wouldn't pay him when his contract was up. Joe Cribbs and Jim Kelly left for the USFL.

Thanks! I agree...or maybe Barkley can build up a big enough of a lead in the first half, though I would hate to put him at risk.

No, I agree. Maybe if we could get a PS exemption, like for Wade, lol.

I had totally forgotten that! Ugh.

Thanks! Yeah, Ringo coached the Bills briefly in part of 1976 and 1977. I learned he was also a Hall of Fame player, but not for Buffalo.

Yes, I know, the NFL preseason means nothing and has little or no relation to the regular season. That being said, here is some fascinating trivia to satisfy you during this final week of the preseason. I have painstakingly spent half of a day compiling this data from various online sources. A. Buffalo can set a team record this Thursday. If the Bills win the final preseason game vs. Minnesota, they will be 4-0 and go undefeated for the first time in 44 seasons of Bills preseason history for which we have online data.* B. The best Buffalo has done so far in the preseason is 3-1, on five separate times in 1982, 1994, 1999, 2000, and 2003. In each of these five preseasons of 3-1, the Bills won the first preseason game, only to lose the second game, going 1-1. C. Overall, the Bills have gone 66-115-1 in the preseason beginning in 1976, the first year which we have online records, with a winning percentage of 0.363. In 6 of those preseasons, the Bills have had winning records. In 24 of those preseasons, the Bills have had losing records. In 14 of those preseasons, the Bills have had 0.500 records. This equates to a 0.295 percentage of seasons with winning records, assuming a 0.500 preseason counts as a half-winning season and half-losing season. In a perfectly random world, the average would be 0.500, assuming each of the following five theoretically-possible records occurs equally in a 4-game preseason: 4-0, 3-1, 2-2, 1-3, 0-4. D. From 2004-2018, the Bills had losing or 0.500 records in 14 of the 15 preseasons. From 1976-1998, the Bills had losing or 0.500 records in 21 of the 23 preseasons. From 1983-1990, Buffalo suffered 8 consecutive losing preseasons. From 1976-1990, Buffalo had losing preseason records in 13 of 15 seasons. E. Here are the overall preseason records and preseason winning percentages for all Buffalo Bills coaches for which records exist: 1. Wade Phillips - 8-4 - 0.667 2. Sean McDermott - 6-5 - 0.545 3. Rex Ryan - 4-4 - 0.500 4. Gregg Williams - 5-7 - 0.417 5. Mike Mularkey - 3-5 - 0.375 6. Dick Jauron - 6-11 - 0.353 7. (tie) Marv Levy - 15-30 - 0.333 7. (tie) Doug Marrone - 3-6 - 0.333 7. (tie) Jim Ringo - 2-4 - 0.333 10. Chuck Knox - 6-14 - 0.300 11. (tie) Chan Gailey - 3-9 - 0.250 11. (tie) Hank Bullough - 1-3 - 0.250 13. Kay Stephenson - 2-9-1 - 0.208 F. The only coach with career winning preseason and regular season records in Bills history is Wade Phillips (preseason 8-4 and regular season 29-19). Sean McDermott can join him with a regular season this year of 9-6-1 or better; and a tie, win, or cancellation of this Thursday's final preseason game vs. Minnesota.. G. Two of the three all-time regular season winningest coaches in Bills history for which we have preseason records have overall losing records in the preseason: Marv Levy and Chuck Knox. (As stated above, Wade Phillips has both preseason and regular season career winning records.) (Few preseason records exist for Lou Saban, who is the third winningest coach in Bills history.) H. Buffalo is 0-4 in Hall of Fame Games, losing in 2014, 2009, 1989, and 1974. I. The only AFL team to have ever defeated legendary NFL coach Vince Lombardi was Buffalo in the 1969 preseason on August 8, in which the Bills defeated Washington 21-17.** J. In researching the preseason records of Buffalo, I also found out the last three non-interim coaches for the Bills have nearly identical regular season records: a. Sean McDermott - 15-17 b. Rex Ryan - 15-16 c. Doug Marrone - 15-17 ------------ NOTES: *Most records for NFL preseason games do not exist before 1976 online, at least in resources I knew about and checked. Likewise, it seems that no AFL preseason records exist online, so this post only concerns the Bills from 1976 onward. From 1970-1977, NFL teams played 6-7 preseason games and 14 regular season games. From 1960-1969, AFL teams played up to 6 preseason games. Most of the preseason records for the Bills came from this site: https://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/buffalo-bills/results/ supplemented by this site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_Game since the first site did not include Hall of Fame Games. and this site: https://www.nfl.com/standings (preseason records from 2006 onward). There may have been a few seasons from 1978-2005 in which the Bills played five preseason games in a year in which they did not participate in the Hall of Fame game. The first website above did not include these possible games, nor did any other site which I checked. **http://www.remembertheafl.com/AFLNFLexhibitions.htm

Does anyone know if Derek had not retired, would we have kept 3 QB's on the roster this year?

Ok, I do have some alumni .edu emails I can use. I will try that. Thank you.

Thanks for the info. Wish I were a student!

I looked it up, and regular price is only $79 a month or $296 paid at once. https://nflst.directv.com/packages Is that $85 the total amount??

The Bills have traditionally played the starting QB into the third quarter of pre-season game 3. But the tendency now in the NFL is to protect your starters from injury. At the same time, Josh is young and still needs to sync with his offense, especially since the OL and some receivers are new. Therefore, I predict he will play the entire first half tonight only.

Here is the embedded video too:

Agreed. He is actnsyco in the video. BTW, "ex-fiancée".

Agreed. Antonio Brown comes to mind. Glad he nixed that trade.

Thanks for listing all 31 other teams. I would not have known them otherwise. ?

In 1984 the entire San Francisco 49'ers secondary made the Pro Bowl: Ronnie Lot Eric Wright Carlton Williamson Dwight Hicks https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/1984_roster.htm

Oliver is a rookie and needs the reps to get up to NFL speed.

Agreed. OJ has the highest YPC average of any RB ever. And he broke 2,000 yards in just 14 games on a bad team.