CincyBillsFan

We all agree that the O line is no good and going for the jugular may not be the best move given how little time Allen has to pass. And from this is born the "Allen needs to check down more to wide open receivers" meme. So who should Allen check the throw down to? Who among our skill players has elite speed to outrun coverage & tacklers? Who among our skill players can make multiple guys miss the tackle? Who among our skill players can read defenses like a book and know where to settle down to be open? And who among our skill players is a brute that can regularly break tackles? There is a reason they brought Beasley back and tried to land McCaffrey. Don't you think it was funny that in the 2 playoff games Beas had 9 targets catching 5 for 68 yards and a TD? And it's not like he was on the field much in those two games. It's clear to me that if the skill player has any of the attributes I listed above Allen will get him the ball. Beasley's skill is quick burst of speed and reading the coverage.

I don't think we're that far apart here and I agree with your basic premise. My point was that if you are going to direct the majority of your FA money & draft capital to the defense then it can't go out and surrender back to back long TD drives to start the game off. Worse,when Buffalo's offense actually showed some life and made it a one score game the Bengals promptly drove the length of the field using up a lot of time and taking back a two score lead. So I agree that in today's NFL you have to outscore your opponent particularly in the playoffs. The game has been tweaked to favor the O in every possible way. Therefore football teams must prioritize their offensive units even at the expense of their defenses. IMO the Bills offensive success over the last few seasons, which can't be denied based on their rankings and individual game performances, has been achieved in spite of the organizations strategic approach. This success can be attributed largely to the Bills having an absolute freak at QB. But when you compare the Bills O line and play makers to other top offenses they are deficient with the exception of QB and one WR. That the Bills are inconsistent and have an offense that can disappear more then the other top O's in the NFL is a direct result of how the Bills have emphasized defense over offense in building this team.

My guess is that they factored in that Allen was 3rd in the voting this season so right there he should be a top 5 candidate. Then they considered Allen's elite skill set and that bumped him into the top 3. Then they look at the Bills and asked the question "where do they have to get better"? and the logical answer is on the O line and in the number of play makers. In other words Allen is going to get more help.

There was some of that but at one point they flashed a stat where the QB had only been hurried on 5 of 33 pass attempts. This pales in comparison to Allen who is routinely hurried on one third to one half of his drop backs. Imagine enduring that game after game after game over a 17 game season? Also because the O lines yesterday were so good what you often saw was ONE guy or a blitzer get in quick and force Mahomes or Hurts to move round. But across the line you saw guys holding their blocks enabling the QB's to move and reestablish themselves for the throw.

I live in Cincinnati and follow the Bengals almost as closely as the Bills and Burrow does have multiple games were he doesn't play his best. As for Mahomes and the Chiefs all you're seeing is the brilliant ability of Andy Reid to correct mistakes and adjust the Offense when there is a problem. Everything I've seen over the last few years reinforces the following opinions: * Allen is elite and every bit as good s Mahomes & Burrow or any other QB in the NFL. * The Bills have struggled for YEARS on the O line. By any objective measure Buffalo's O line is bad. Allen hides many of it's deficiencies. Such poor O line lay will lead to inconsistencies on offense and the occasional games in which Allen struggles. * Allen has been handicapped by an organization that is not offensively geared. Success in the current NFL is overwhelmingly characterized by offensive coaches and organizations. Watching KC rebuild its O line while paying big bucks to Mahomes is exactly the template the Bills should be copying. Notice I didn't even include skill players. Sure Allen doesn't enjoy the riches in play makers that Tua, Hurts or Burrow enjoy but if you put a great O line in front of Allen and put Andy Reid as his coach Bills fans would already be celebrating a Super Bowl win or two with a more to come. Do I think McD & Bean can get the Bills a Super Bowl victory? Yes I do. But it starts this off season with a 180 degree pivot in the Bills approach to the offensive side of the ball.

I don't know about Allen but I was jealous of BOTH teams O lines. That the Bills have not worked aggressively to shore up this unit is a miss of epic proportions. They have the key piece place - an elite, once in a generation talent at QB. At first continuously pouring money and draft picks into the defensive line while allowing the O line to languish was a RISK. Then it turned into a MISTAKE when it didn't work. If it continues it will be an example of FOOTBALL MALPRACTICE.

Fumbles are not the same as INT's unless they're LOST. Throwing that number out is misleading. Notice how some of these folks equate a fumble that was NOT lost to an INT? That's simply insane and shows how they bastardize stats to prove a point.

Some are homers but most are being objective and simply disagree with you. And it's your opinion that what we're saying is "unreasonable and clearly lacks objectivity". To me the idea that Allen & Mahomes should be compared as if they're on a level playing field is ludicrous on its face. And what have I said that you consider "BS"? BTW I find it really odd that you would have an issue with anyone on 2BD believing that Allen is every bit as good as Mahomes. Disagree, fine, but have an issue? Please. This is after all a Buffalo Bills message board.

Gee, imagine finding some Bills homers on a Bills message board? Wow what will they think of next? The real story here is why anyone would get upset about what Bills homers are saying at TWO BILLS DRIVE. And for the record coaching & the O line are huge factors in a teams and QB's success. Probably bigger then the talent of the skill players. And while there is a debate about how much better, if at all, the Chiefs RB's & WR's were compared to the Bills in 2022 there is no debate that over Allen's career he has had inferior RB & WR talent then Mahomes has had in his career. And that FACT directly impacts career playoff success. Let's stick with LOST fumbles please. Allen's TO 's are a direct result of his aggressive play behind a very bad O line and without the benefit of a reliable running game.

You conveniently ignore the very real differences in the offensive lines of the two teams. And O line plays a huge factor in a QB's success and a teams playoff success And again what I've seen more of are posters not trying to diminish Mahomes but rather trying to explain why Allen hasn't had the same playoff success. Statistically Allen is holing his own even with inferior offensive talent supporting him. And while the 2022 separation in WR talent between the Bills and Chiefs is probably closer then it's been in years there still was a KC advantage. Or did you miss the Bills having to call back Brown & Beasley? And even you can't dispute that over their careers, Mahomes has enjoyed a much superior WR group then Allen. Again the goal is not to diminish Mahomes. The goal is to present the facts that diminish the DIFFERENCE between the skill level of Mahome & Allen that you guys think is much greater then it is.

You have been misrepresenting the argument that most Bills fans have been making here. I think it's fair to say that a lot of Bills fans agree that Mahomes deserved the MVP THIS SEASON over Allen. At least that's my opinion. What annoys many of us is the assertion by you and others that Mahomes is a much better QB then Allen. This is an entirely different position then saying he deserved the 2022 MVP over Allen. When posters like you jump on here and accuse us of "homerism" because we may not believe Mahomes is better then Allen it rankles because the argument over who wins the 2022 MVP is not the same argument as to who is the better QB. And it's not "making excuses" to point out the very different circumstances Allen & Mahomes came into the league under and the continued disparity between the two in offensive coaching & surrounding talent. Those are easily observable FACTS that are hard to dispute. The reality is that Mahomes has benefited mightily by playing for a franchise that values offense over defense. In contrast Allen has had to rise above a Bills organization that favors defense over offense. From what my eyes tell me Allen is every bit as good a QB as Mahomes. The things you cite to declare Mahomes superior have more to do with the team element of football then differences in individual skills between these two. The FACT is that Mahomes plays on the superior team that has embraced the best way to win in the playoffs - focus on the offense without reservations.

Allen has proven he can "spread the ball around" to. Check out how many different receivers he completes passes to in games over the last few years. And when the Chiefs traded Hill (they tried to keep him by all accounts) they went out and got two solid WR's to at least soften the loss. BOTH WR's that the Chiefs brought in were better then Crowder, the Bills big of season WR addition going into 2022. And let's not even start about the O line, a unit the Chiefs put big money into to best protect their franchise QB. And all this happened after Mahomes rookie contract was up. There is no need to let Diggs go. In fact it would be a huge mistake to do so. What is needed is a pivot by the Bills to stacking the offense with as much talent as the CAP allows. This includes finding a true #2 WR to compliment Diggs.

This is the most disquieting reason I can think for his leaving. And the evidence supports that the Bills aren't all that interested in amusing WR talent. With the exception of Diggs this organization has been Dollar Store shopping for WR's since day one of the Allen era.

The Ravens game? In addition to it being a bad weather day on the 1st series a decent Allen pass bounces off the hands of Knox for an INT and in the 3rd series Motor loses a fumble. Starting with the late 2nd quarter TD drive Allen was masterful in that game leading the Bills back from a 20 - 3 deficit. Maybe what defenses figured out was that our O line couldn't pass protect. Maybe the loss of Crowder & Kummrow hurt those "short and intermediate" solutions. Maybe the very real limitations of Davis & McKenzie limited our short passing game. Maybe defensive let downs at critical points in a game forced Allen to try to hit the big rather then small play. And Allen was more then willing to "play small ball" when the opportunity's arose. Calling Allen out for not showing "humility" and "accountability" is flat out wrong. If anything I saw a guy who tried to hard to deliver the expectations of a Super Bowl contending team that in some critical areas didn't have Super Bowl quality talent.

It's the difference between a defensive minded head coach and an offensive minded head coach. I like McD and he deserves a lot of credit for lifting the Bills out of football hell and making them relevant again. But this off season is a big test for him. Either he pivots on a dime and works to strengthen the O or he doubles down on the D. If he doubles down and focuses on the D then at minimum the Bills better make it to the AFC championship game next season or McD should be fired. If McD focuses on the offense we have to recognize that it might take a couple of years to fix the problem. In this scenario McD would have those couple of years to get it done.

I don't agree. A better description of the Vikings game was that Allen made key mistakes at the end when the Bills could have won a game. But that game was lost because of the D. The fact is that Allen played very well in leading the Bills to a 27 - 10 lead late in the 3rd quarter. And in spite of playing at home where a top ranked D is supposed to thrive the D promptly let the Vikes back in the game allowing Cook to go 82 yards off tackle to cut the lead to 27 - 17.

What sting? That we passed on Mahomes and ended up with Allen? First off that was 6 years ago. Second, had we passed on Mahomes to draft Rosen or Darnold instead of Allen then I might agree that the sting is still there. But the very next year we drafted an elite QB who is a generational talent in his own right. At that point all that mattered was what did KC & Buffalo do to develop their guy and surround him with the best offensive talent and coaching possible. Looking at it from that perspective it's clear that the Chiefs have done a lot more for Mahomes then the Bills did for Allen.

You might remember that the weather that night was very bad and limited both offenses. In spite of that Allen threw for over 200 yards and a TD. Importantly Allen did not have a TO and clearly outplayed Lamar Jackson.

Invest in the offense and surround Allen with the best talent possible. And by "invest" I mean: * To the extent the CAP allows we favor the offense in who we sign as FA's * The bulk of our draft picks for the next two seasons go to the offense. * We change our defensive tactics to recognize that we're an offensive team. I would copy KC where their philosophy is more compatible with having a high energy O with a big play QB at the helm. This means the LAST thing we want to do is allow teams to nickle & dime us to death on D. Long, time consuming scoring drives are worse then giving up the occasional big play score. After a big play score our O is right back on the field.

Yea Mahomes sure looked good behind an offensive line that protected him. It's possible to believe two things here: 1) Mahomes is a great QB who is elite. Allen is also a great QB who is elite. 2) Mahomes has benefited and his play has been taken to the next level because he has been surrounded with much better offensive talent & coaching then Allen has since day 1. I believe that if Mahomes & Allen switched teams they would both continue to be elite in comparison to other NFL QB's. The difference would be that Allen would likely be playing in his 2nd or 3rd Super Bowl while Mahomes was leading the Bills to the playoffs every year but struggling to get them over the top.

#1 Allen hasn't missed a game in 4 straight seasons including in 8 straight playoff games. To list an injury as the #1 criticism of Allen is just plain wrong and incomprehensible to any thinking football fan. #2 Allen takes the check down completion when it's worth taking. This is a stat that those that want to trash Allen throw out there. #3 Allen's INT numbers are in line with other aggressive, elite QB's (see Mahomes & Burrow). His fumbles are a direct result of his having to run the ball more then most QB's. On top of that Allen works behind one of the worst O lines in football. The strip sack is always a risk with this line and Allen trying to make plays downfield.

Maybe Hall was constantly whining about the need for more talent at WR and McD & Bean got tired of it? As an aside, last year we got rid of the O line coach because the O line struggled but the Bills didn't add much in the way of talent to that unit and they regressed this year. Now we have a struggling WR group and that coach leaves. Yea there is cause for concern. I get that coaches don't count against the cap but the issues at O line & WR are not coaching problems but talent issues. Seems like there's a pattern here of not putting resources into the offense but rather change the coaching to try to improve. I guess from McD & Bean's perspective this opens up the chance for a 1st round CB and 2nd round DT to be taken in the next draft as their issues at WR will be solved by a new coach.

The Bills are a defensive minded organization that spends all their time worrying about who the 4th CB will be or how do we best protect a nickle DB on the practice squad. They don't really pay attention or value critical offensive groups like the O line or WR room. How else do you lose a Hogkins and not fully grasp how the loss of Beasley's production would hurt the O in the middle of the field. If you don't believe me look at how the Bills addressed the D versus O lines. After using TWO first round picks (Groot & Oliver) and TWO 2nd round picks (Epi & Boogy) on the D line the previous couple of years the Bills went out and made a huge FA signing with Miller and then added FOUR more FA D linemen to the team! Compare this to the TWO O linemen signed. This is what Cowherd is talking about when he goes on and on about the limitations of franchises with defensive minded head coaches.

Hurts plays behind the best offensive line in football and is surrounded by multiple elite game breaking play makers. If Allen threw for 120 yards in a playoff game, 40 of which came on an incomplete pass the refs missed, certain Bills fans would be screaming for his head.

I can't be the only one thinking that Beasley's new enthusiasm for playing with the Bills is a result of his coming back, looking around the WR room and saying "damn, the cupboard is bare around here". To me Beasley thinking he can still contribute at a high level in Buffalo is even more damning about our lack of WR talent then the late season signing of him and Brown.