CincyBillsFan

You can quibble all you want over a half second. But you need good players to execute the "structured" offense you crave. Outside of Diggs and the possible exception of Knox the Bills skill players are below average. And their O line is a mess. One of the reasons it takes Allen longer to get a pass off is he is flushed out of the pocket a lot more then other QB's. It doesn't take many times where Allen is running for his life for 7 to 8 seconds behind the line of scrimmage to bias release time stats when the differences are in the half second range.

Then we'll see if they can pass the test like KC did. I suspect they will. Still I would rather have the Bengal's "problem" then the Bills who in desperation had to bring two WR's that were out of football for our playoff push. The more I think about that the madder it makes me.

Not today. And the Bengals worked hard in the off season to improve their O line. Two major signings and a 1st round pick for the LT. And this is after loading up on explosive play makers.

Did Allen have a hand in today's loss? Sure it wasn't Allen's best game but I thought he played very well. In fact I saw a number of great passes and a couple of good runs. I also saw Allen running for his life on half his drop backs. And I saw a perfectly thrown 50 yard pass go right through the hands of Davis - again. Allen is already considered the most physically gifted QB in the NFL. And an increasing number of analysts are noticing the Bills poor O line play and lack of any play makers beyond Diggs. And the whispers are turning into shouts about how teams that have defensive minded coaches aren't doing to well in the current NFL.

False. The Bengals gave Burrow all the time in the world to push his receivers down field then AND ONLY THEN check down to a guy who ran 10 yards for a first down. Allen was harassed on half the pass attempts he made. And for the record Burrow was not getting the ball out all that quickly once he realized that he had all day to throw.

I keep going back to that 1st and goal at the 8 at the start of the 3rd quarter. We run and lose 3yards. Second and goal from the 11 is a lot tougher then had we gained 3 yards with a 2nd and goal from the 5. Part of the reason we go pass happy is that all to often when we do run the ball we gut stuffed for no gain or lose yardage.

That's easier said then done when your defense allows a team to go up and down the field and gets out to 14 - 0 lead. Also I'm not convinced that the Bills O line and RB's could execute a sustained running game.

Even in the most outlandish "what if" scenario I would not give up Allen & Diggs for Shanahan. I think that Bean & McD can fix this if they recognize the problem and realign the organization to meet it head on. Bean & McD did turn the Bills franchise around and that's worth something. So as long as they do what's necessary, focus on the offense and adopt a new defensive philosophy minus Frazier, they can have us right back in the thick of things next season.

One play doesn't prove a point. It was a great run by Motor on a poorly blocked play. On our 2nd series today we ran the ball twice in a row and guess what? We had a 3rd & 7 which we didn't convert. Then on the first drive of the 3rd quarter we have a first & goal at the 8 and we run the ball and lose 3 yards. So then it was 2nd & goal from the 11. That is the reality of our running game more often then not. If it doesn't end now we are looking at a rapid fall off in the Bills fortunes starting next year. You have identified the problem with this organization and I have to hope that McD and Bean are aware of it. If they aren't and continue to load up the D at the expense of the O then our window is past.

I was a charter member of the rah rah crowd and you and the rest of the pessimists were right. I refused to see that the only thing winning us games was Allen & Diggs play. I will no longer be deluded when rooting for this team. It was like a curtain was lifted from over my eyes today.

Another issue is dropped passes and receivers that all to often are not making tough contested catches. That 50 yard pass to Davis should have been caught. It went right threw his hands.

What is this based on? The offense was pretty effective at times during that winning streak at the end of the season because Allen is nothing like Tyrod. He was making big time throws and the Bills were scoring a lot of points by fits and starts. It wasn't pretty but it was effective until we ran up against a team in the playoffs that had a lot more weapons then we had and a QB that was as elite as our QB and a defense that actually was coached to compliment their offense.

I disagree. I've seen nothing from our O line and RB's that makes me confident we could run the ball effectively in the absence of Allen's lethal passing and running ability. When we've run the ball well it's been because teams are selling out to stop Allen & Diggs. And I agree with you that we need more balance. But we don't have the offensive talent to achieve that balance. So we get pass happy and rely on our elite QB and WR to make plays. And for the most part they do and we win 14 games and a playoff game. But in the end what we're doing on offense is not sustainable against elite teams because outside of Allen & Diggs we have average to below average talent on the offense.

This is not true. The Bills don't run screens because their talent can't execute them. Almost EVERY screen I've seen this year ends with Allen grounding the ball at the feet of a RB surrounded by defenders. As for all the so called "easier shorter throws" Allen isn't taking I call BS. Allen made a number of short throws today and how many times, on a slippery field, did our WR's/RB's make the defender miss? I counted once by McKenzie. The Bills don't have the O line or RB talent to "commit to the grind". Allen doesn't hold on to the ball to long. He is running for his life on half his pass attempts. And it's those big time throws that help us win most of the games we're in. With the talent we have on offense if Allen played the way you want we would not have had a winning record let along claimed a division title and made it to the divisional payoffs.

He has NO choice but to do "crazy things". It's the only chance our offense has. And agonizingly a lot of the crazy stuff he does works. Sure it's chaotic but it's the reason the Bills won 14 games. But in the end the lack of complimentary talent on the offense dooms the Bills against the best teams. And every team that played well this weekend didn't have a defense that let up two long TD drives ion their opponents first two drives of the game.

At that point the game was over. Our only hope was to hit passes like that. In fact this is how Allen drove us to 14 wins this season. He hit on a much higher percentage of those kind of plays then would be expected.

We did bring Beasley & Brown back. And today Beasley might have been our 2nd best WR out there. And that is a huge problem that Bean must see - right?

Maybe it has. But that pass was on target and went right through the hands of Gabe Davis. And that was on a snow covered field that seemed to be keeping our pass rush away from Burrow.

Allen didn't regress. The only reason we won 13games and advanced beyond the first playoff game was because of Allen with an assist from Diggs. What you call regression is the expected outcome of an organization that has failed to surround Allen with even competent talent. You look at other teams with elite QB's and they've moved heaven & earth to surround their generational signal callers with the best O-lines and skill players available. I am more convinced then ever that if you gave Allen the weapons and coaching that Mahomes & Burrow have he would be a perennial SB QB. And that isn't taking anything away from Mahomes & Burro who are both elite QB's. But IMO neither Mahomes or Burrow could do as well with Buffalo's offensive talent & coaching as Allen has.

I like the way KC plays defense. Sure they get beat on big plays and at times teams go up and down the field on them but their theory seems to be that we're going to play aggressive and take chances which will create a TO and a couple of 3 and outs that our offense will feast on. And if we do get into a shoot out we have the best shoot out offense in the NFL.

Bingo. The Bengals went out and signed one big time defender the last 2 years while they threw all sorts of money and draft capital at offensive linemen and skill players. As fans we are deluding ourselves if we think anything less then a 180 degree turn around won't stem the decline that will see us barely win half our games next season. The answer is simple: fire Frazier and replace him with a DC that understands that defense is 2nd to the offense and throw all available money and draft capital at the offense.

I don't disagree but IMO the biggest issue with the defense is the coaching and scheme while the biggest issue with the offense are the lack of above average players complementing Diggs & Allen.

I saw our O line beaten off the ball on almost half of Allen's drop backs. Remember the big Bengal DT that had a free rush right up the gut? The O line also had two holding calls on it. And I didn't think we ran the ball well today. My guess is that during the season our big runs were due more to teams focusing on Allen & Diggs then our innate ability to run the ball.

I was blinded by the brilliance of Allen & Diggs. They are the two best payers on this team. Going forward we must surround them with the best possible complementary talent.

I disagree. Our RB's are to small. Our O line has only one above average player. The rest are below average. For crying out loud on a snow covered field the Bengal managed to get hurries on Allen on almost half his drop backs! And our offensive skill players? We have one great WR the rest are below average. Over the course of this season I had blinders on because we were winning. I didn't want to recognize the fundamental issues that my eyes were seeing. We won 13 games primarily because of the elite play of our QB and WR#1. I comforted myself in our defensive rankings. We couldn't be bad because we were a top 5 unit by almost every measure. Yet in to many games the D seemed to melt away at critical moments giving up game changing plays and drives. Think about today. After coming out flat and letting the Bengal's jump out to a 14 - 0 lead we cut their lead to 14 - 7 and how does the D respond? They allow an 8 minute drive that only ends in a FG and not a TD because of a great play by Millano on the ball. Then after we use up half the 3rd quarter to again cut the Cincy lead to one score our D gives up a long TD drive that uses up most of the rest of the 3rd quarter to go up 24 - 10.