VW82

The turnovers haven't been great though he's had a few really unlucky ones. I'd argue his team isn't winning because their defense sucks and their head coach shouldn't be a head coach.

Odd post. Carr is 5th in yards, 4th in completion percentage, and 8th in YPA, Just going to throw this out there but it's possible Carr is just fine.

I'm amazed at how resilient some of you guys are in your faith that Allen will come through this ok. Like, even Mitch Trubisky wasn't this raw as a rookie. It's so scary. This article did a great job of highlighting a bunch of the issues I've seen over the first five weeks plus preseason. Again, so much of this has absolutely nothing to do with the supporting cast. If you're still claiming it does, you didn't read the article or watch the video evidence, or any of the games really.

If Allen doesn't show much improvement by year end here's how I'd handle it: 1. We have cap space and the roster is bereft of talent so clearly we should upgrade it regardless; 2. Acquire another QB (draft, sign, or trade) and make Allen fight for the job in training camp. I wouldn't be averse to picking a QB in the first round if the right guy was available. If Allen can't win a QB competition going into year two then he can sit and be our back up for a year assuming we can't trade him. I don't think you can just hand someone a job two years in a row if they're not earning that right to play. Obviously the hope is Josh improves by leaps and bounds this year and proves he's our franchise guy going into year two.

You're the only one talking about him not playing anymore (even if it's just to be facetious). Obviously he needs more time. The question I raised is does it make sense to commit a bunch of other resources next off season to build around Allen if he hasn't improved considerably from where he is today? I think that's a fair question. Many here seem to be taking the default position of "it's not his fault because he's a rookie and the Oline and WRs suck so we can't objectively rate his performance." That's crap. You have to take that into consideration but it's clear he'd be having the same problems with better teammates because of how tremendously raw he is. He's so raw it's fair to question whether he'll ever improve enough to be successful, and it's worth monitoring that improvement over the course of the year so we can make a more informed decision about him in the off season.

He's played 18 quarters plus preseason of NFL football. It isn't too early to make some observations about where he is in his development. I'm not suggesting he's a finished product or won't make it. But the early signs suggest he has a long ways to go, and according to Andy Benoit maybe the longest out of any QB in recent memory as far as football IQ. Again, I don't think we should just assume "better weapons" is the answer here. Let's see if he develops at all first before we hard commit to the Allen era. This isn't about the picks. If he's good it's worth it to overpay. I think virtually everyone who isn't a hard core Bills fan would agree that Allen is not on par with Darnold at this point. Not even close. That isn't to say that Allen might not one day surpass him. But in terms of where they are re NFL sophistication, Darnold and Baker are light years ahead. I haven't seen much of the AZ kid yet.

Agreed but we just spent a lot of draft capital to take Allen who right now doesn't look like an NFL QB. I think we need to figure that out because if he doesn't dramatically improve there's no amount of talent we can put around him that will allow this team to succeed in a way that makes sense long-term. The worst thing we can do is pretend like we have the QB position fixed, go out and spend our cap and draft picks to build around Allen only to realize after the fact that he can't play. Now we're back to where to were two years ago: capped out, without the right leadership, and needing to rebuild.

You guys keep coming back to the Oline and WRs. If we swapped Oline and WR groups with the Rams we'd still have trouble moving the ball right now. That's how raw Josh is. The focus needs to be on determining if Allen can develop in his pre and post snap reads and with his accuracy enough to be a winning QB. If not, then we should be thinking about finding a new QB to develop rather than ignoring the problem and looking for players who might cover up his debilitating weaknesses.

Look if Josh doesn't get much better and fast they have to. McD isn't going to just piss away the season on performances like GB and Tenn (which we almost lost because of Josh). Allen is so raw right now. There's a good argument to suggest he'd actually benefit from sitting for a few games, and watching a vet QB go through the process of preparing to play and debriefing afterward. He might appreciate the opportunity more next time around. Allen is still the future but you can't completely punt on the present in favour of one guy's future. It sends the wrong message to the team. He can play again when we're out of it.

Bills should start him as soon as he's up to speed. Not necessarily for an extended period, just for a game or two so Josh can watch another QB go through the process. Allen desperately needs to steepen the learning curve. He's just been atrocious out there, literally costing us games. If he's even half as mentally tough as every claims he is, he'll take the benching like a champ and come back a much better player in a few weeks with a little more perspective on what it takes to be successful at this level.

I think 80-90% of the protection issues and holding the ball too long is QB pre-snap stuff. It's not Daboll other than to whatever degree he isn't successfully developing Allen in that area. If you blind-folded Brady or Rivers or Rodgers or any of the great pocket passers until after the ball was snapped, and forced them to diagnose coverage based solely on who moved where they'd hold the ball too long and get sacked just as frequently. It's too much to ask of any QB to drop back and "find the open guy" every time without the benefit of some foresight. You need to be able to figure out what the defense is trying to do, and either know where you're going before the ball is snapped, or manipulate the defense into something favourable if that option isn't there. Allen has no chance without some level of sophistication at the line, and right now he's the least sophisticated QB in the NFL (and probably down the list compared to some of the current college guys as well). It's actually a testament to how naturally gifted he is that he's been able to have any success so far. Tl;dr I'm not sure how much a different game plan will really help outside of the first scripted drive, or before the other team adjusts.

This is such a frustrating line of thinking to me. Quick story from my youth: I went to university with this girl "Jenny" (her Canadian name) who was from rural China. We were in a bunch of classes together first year. She spoke English well enough to understand what was going on but still struggled badly. The rest of us were just so far ahead of her it wasn't fair. She legit flunked out and had to take a bunch of hundred level courses over again in the summer, and then again the next summer. The thing was Jenny was brilliant, way smarter and more naturally gifted than the rest of us, and ultimately medalled at congregation. But she was so close to flunking out and having to move back home. It really could have gone either way for her at various points that first year. To ignore circumstance and context, and pretend like they don't play a massive role in the success of people is just plain ignorant. Good is not always good enough without a little help. If Allen flames out it will be because of a variety of factors, and will depend at least partly on the circumstance he flamed out in.

Sorry forgot the link. It's up now. Yes Dilfer loves Allen. I think his perspective closely resembled that of the concerned father who was watching his son needlessly go through the same trials and tribulations that he had 20 some years earlier. He repeatedly said how his heart was breaking for the kid. I think he genuinely cares, and believes in him too. It's the timing and the situation, or as you said "the strategy." Culture over everything, right? The adversity aspect is interesting to me. In theory it makes a ton of sense. That said, if Josh is so much more mature because of the road he took to get to the NFL, why doesn't it show to people like Dilfer who claim he just isn't ready? There's a bit of a disconnect there.

Trent Dilfer went on Ryen Russillo's podcast this week, and had a bunch of interesting takes on how teams should develop rookie QBs vs. how it was done in years gone by. His main take away was that most of the time young QBs today are ready to start right out of the gate. He was previously very against that idea. Here's Dilfer on his own rookie year, and how that influences his thought process: "I was the worst player in all of football...and I just don't want to see that happen to other kids. Josh Alllen right now is the one that's ripping my heart out. Darnold should be playing. Rosen should be playing. Baker should be playing. I don't think Josh Allen should be playing. He comes up very similar background as me. Central Valley, California. Smaller school. I don't think he's ready for the bigness of the NFL, and he's not surrounded by enough good stuff - innovation, talent, whatever, the ten other things - that can make up for his lack of sophistication and experience." "Every year I will identify a kid that is like me, his background is like me, you can see the writing on the wall that the chances of ruining this kid (by playing him too early) are better than the chances of making him a superstar."

Good points about the Vikings D. I still think Allen made a ton of plays happen in that first half and as a result the rest of the offense looked fine. I disagree with you about Daboll, and I think McD does too. In his presser today, he's talking about "multiple hands in the cookies jar" wrt to the sacks and the pressures, and the need for Josh to do a better job with pre-snap stuff so he isn't constantly putting the offense in bad situations. He's talking about the need for Josh to stay healthy in order to improve, and how a bunch of the hits he's taking fall on his shoulders. I have to think these coaches understand the position they've put this kid in, and are doing everything they can to prepare him for the games. Josh just did a bad job of executing the game plan this week, and didn't know when to audible at the line when the defense was lined up in a way that might successfully counter the play call. I'm back to agreeing with your earlier suggestion of having Daboll miked up in Allen's helmet. That doesn't work on the road due to noise, but it might work this week at home. Maybe that can be a one week teaching aid to help him "see" the pre-snap reads he needs to make, so he has a better idea of where to go with the ball right away. I think Allen tanked the game in GB, and made everyone look worse than they were. Oline missed blocks because protections didn't get adjusted. Allen got sacked because he ran right into some of them. There were no dropped passes this game that I counted, just a bunch of wildly inaccurate throws. People question the lack of run game, but we were down and Packers were basically daring us to throw the ball. We couldn't, and that was the difference.

I'd be interested to hear McD's response to this. Hopefully someone has the guts to ask the question. Does he tell the truth and pin it on the QBs? Taylor and Peterman had some ugly days last year, same with Allen and Peterman this year. That's the biggest reason for this. I'd be curious to hear what he has to say about the defense though. I can't remember a D that was as boom or bust as it's been under McD.

Food for thought. We put up 28 points in one half against what many considered to be one the best defenses in the NFL last year. Perhaps our OL, WRs, and OC aren't really that terrible? Perhaps they're just regular bad or even OK, and the difference is last week Allen played very well for one half, and this week he was awful. I'm sure the there were others on the offense that had off days, but it feels like we're going out of our way to pin Allen's really bad day on everyone else.

You appear to have completely missed my point. The only clown-like thing going here on is your reading comprehension. I agree we beat Vikings in large part because of Allen (and because Vikings no showed). I straight up said that. But we also lost to Pack mostly because of Allen too. This isn't about the Oline, or WRs, or play calling to nearly the degree that you or most other posters on here are making it out to be. It's about Allen looking like white Cam Newton for a half one week, and then next week he's making Ryan Leaf look like a HOFer. McD is talking about multiple hands in the cookie jar wrt the sacks, and the need for better pre-snap reads to put our O in better positions in the first place during his presser today. Who do you think he's talking about there? I just don't get the need to praise Allen when he does well, but then blame everyone else when he's atrocious. Some of you guys sound like soccer moms.

Just so I understand you correctly, you're suggesting that because Peterman was terrible for one half (and was also terrible last year on a team that made the playoffs), that means that it's really everyone else's fault, and not Allen's? Here's a hot take for you. Last week Allen played well and we won by a lot. This week Allen played terribly and we lost by a lot. Perhaps the performance of our young QB is determining more of the outcome than you think.

Josh Allen is having a rough go of it out there and is making everyone around him look really bad in the process. I get everyone else on this board thinks it's the opposite, but I assure you our QB is the root of the problem right now. Let's hope he figures it out, and fast.

McD answering a question about Josh and what he needs to improve most: Q: "What are some of the areas where Josh can help himself get out of some bad situations or not allowing that to fester like he did last game?" A: "...I think that knowing where his answers are pre-snap it will be important for him moving forward as he continues to grow. (Then) you can take what the defense gives you and you can (still) move the chains, and I thought that was key yesterday. We didn't get that done." I've been harping on this all year and I'm glad McD is at least acknowledging this publicly. Allen has such a long ways to go in that department, and IMO it's BY FAR the biggest impediment to us being a good team right now. Josh just has no idea what's going on out there. We can harp all we want about play calling, but when your QB has such a low football IQ it handcuffs everyone involved.

Yes because people are all robots and are immune to the effects of non-stop adversity. Good point.

My theory on what happened yesterday is Josh is currently stuck in information overload. To me he looks like a feel player, and that's part of the reason he's so raw. For the first time in his career, coaches are asking him to do more than just go out and play with a basic game plan. Now he needs to pay attention to pre-snap alignments, check our protections, move guys around, diagnose rush while still going throw his progressions, find the hot route, keep track of his internal clock, etc., etc.,...and it's all just WAY TOO MUCH for him to process because he's never had to do this much before. Yesterday his brain broke on the field. I watched it happen. Twice in the 3rd and 4th quarters he ran away from non-existent pressure right into getting sacked. The first INT throw was another example. He's simultaneously missing unblocked rushers while also running away from phantom ones. To answer your question OP, I do think the coaching staff told him to be careful. I don't think that had any impact on what happened. Josh just isn't good at diagnosing or feeling pressure, and given his head is already spinning with everything else he isn't playing instinctively which is also exacerbating his accuracy issues. Last week he played with his gut and with confidence. He stayed out of his own head. It might be time to dial back the complexity of the game plan and the extent of his responsibilities. He's just not ready for this.

Josh is missing guys by 10-15 yards on some of these throws. How do you fight for those?

Did we have any dropped passes yesterday? I can't remember one.