ngbills

Come on now. Your trying way too hard to twist by statement into an attack on Allen. I did not say he isnt a very good QB in my statements. Again, I just said the stats do not paint the entire picture. No different than those who say him throwing for 300 yards does not matter. It is all relative.

I am not talking at all about his recent play or overall play. My only point was that the game winning drive and comeback win stats get used very liberally and if you actually look at those games they do not meet the argument of what people are generally saying.

I will play.... 3 of the 4 this year were vs CIN, NYJ and MIA. Those were games we had no business needing the late game heroics. JA had played poorly in these games requiring some bad teams to give away games. MIA counts as a comeback but reality is we scored to start the 4th quarter, so technically yes, but not really what I call a comeback win. Last year he gets credit for: TEN - We ran the ball basically the entire drive with McCoy and Ivory and kicked a FG to win. JAC - Tie game and we scored to start the 4th qtr and we scored on 1st play of the 4th qtr from JAC 14. So technically yes, but not really what is a GWD. DET - Scored with about 10 min left in 4th. Yes gets credit for comeback and GWD but... I only debate this because I think people use these 7 GWD stats too loosely. Like it shows how he can play when he needs to so nothing else matters. Just not true. I want him to play well and not need to fight for easy wins - win like we did vs DAL and DEN. Lets see the heroics vs NE or BAL this week.

Why is it bitching? It is undeniable Allen had some games in which he played poorly. The offense was struggling. Hence it is ok to discuss. As I said, some prefer to look at that and say what do you expect, he has no WR or whatever to dismiss the poor play. Obviously McD/Daboll or whoever realized it as well because there have been big changes in playcalling, game management, player useage, etc. So in reality those with concerns were legit or else there would have been no changes needed.

This is a good point. I do still think there is something to passing ability vs. scheme. Both Allen and Jackson at this point are more scheme attacks as you say with both the passing and running abilities. Neither in my mind is that pure passer - Brees, Rodgers, etc. Until you are outschemed I think you can win the Jackson/Allen way. Concern is will the league catch up to you? Both these guys do have arms and can improve their passing abilities and negate that concern over time.

Haha at all those people that once thought the world was flat. What idiots. Cant believe that. Where are they all hiding now. Wish they would come post on here trying talk that nonsense again.

The point is you have to be able to pass when you need to. If you a have a good defense then you can control the game and not worry about passing yards, etc. But if you fall behind then you better be able to throw the ball. If Allen had even 1-2 300yd passing games this would be less of a discussion point. He and the Bills of recent years have not shown they can go out there and throw the ball around the field if needed. Doesnt mean you suck. Just that you need to win by controlling the game not in a shootout.

I look at as discussion. If someone is not playing well why not have a conversation about it? Some dont want to hear anything negative. Reality is Oliver was not playing great and was losing snaps. Maybe that was the wake up call he needed to motivate himself. I would say the Allen debates are slightly different, but still why are other QB's doing xyz and Allen is not. Worth a discussion though some will again say your a hater etc. My point of view is always if you dont like what your reading and dont want to actually discuss it then go to another thread. There are plenty out there. If I come across a discussion about baking cookies I am going to move on to the next one, not get all fired up and attack people for talking about cookies.

No. Giving up only 3 is dominating. Scoring 20 is not. Especially with the play of the defense. The Bills had plenty of opportunity to put up 40+ when your D plays like that.

Disagree. Our Defense is dependable and can keep us in any game. The O is still leaving us vulnerable. Look at the Bronco game. The O did look good yet was only up 6-0. It took a huge interception by the D or this game could have went differently. The Broncos take a 7-6 lead there and who knows how the momentum goes.

Maybe Allen needs win against him

Very fearful today

Why would anyone want the Pats to win?

For Bills own self interest would be good if true. NFL suspend him for a few games as well. Steelers losses to CIN, CLE or AZ would be huge.

Haha. That is what I was going to say. The legend of Da'Rick Rogers lives.

We win these 3 and we are 10-6. Still can miss out if Ind beats HOU and all else falls according to current win %. Per ESPN OAK in at 11-5 IND in at 11-5 HOU in at 10-6

Agreed. Hopefully Bills are not part of the shocking outcomes. Losing a week 17 game to a 3-12 Jets team to miss the playoffs. Very likely scenario they are in a win and your in game to close the season.

Well the title does include the word "now". That would make most people think after this game. Just saying... So much of this improve talk is subjective. He has a bad game and its but he looked better in pocket. He has a good game and its but he missed this pass. I will keep saying this. He is still having a ton of ups and towns. Some weeks the trend line looks up. Some weeks it looks down. The good news in my mind is he has not proven himself to be awful. The bad news is he has not proven himself to be destined to greatness. He could be a middle of the road guy. We are going to wait and see. The disappointment for many is that he was a top 10 pick and we are seeing a lot of other guys play great. Just got to wait this one out a bit.

Funny you start by saying "Cleveland is not going to make the playoffs...Miami is not an easy win...and Cincinnati will probably beat them once...they have to win a game somewhere." Then go on to be critical of others saying "I mean people already are figuring out who is going to win and lose before the games are even played....doesnt work like that." That is the point of this all. Playing with who wins that game or this game and how it impacts who gets in the playoffs. That is why ESPN has the playoff machine in the first place. Obviously no one knows what will happen.

Interestingly - If you pick the better D to win each game the rest of the season by ESPN default option. Guess who makes it? Chargers...finishing 9-7 with wins over KC, JAC, MIN, OAK and KC again. Loss is to DEN. Dont see that happening but interesting nonetheless.

Browns are lowest on the list of concerns. PIT and OAK are right there though with easy schedules. Bottom line - Bills win games they should vs DEN and NYJ. Then take 2 of 4 vs PIT, BAL, NE, DAL.

CLE plays CIN x2, MIA, AZ. Those are 4 easy wins. The PIT game will be big. Then they play BAL late. They are between 10-6 and 8-8 pretty easily. PIT plays CIN, NYJ, AZ. Those should be 3 easy ones. They play BAL week 17 so BAL could have nothing to play for. Key games will be CLE and Bills games. They are between 11-5 and 9-7 quite easily. OAK plays NYJ, DEN and that gets them 8 very easily. They win 3 of these to get to 11 - JAC, TEN, LAC, KC.

Nothing changed after this Sunday. Key games are still DAL, BAL, PIT. We lose two of those and we are potentially in trouble. Raiders are likely 11-5 or 10-6. PIT could wind up 11-5 or 10-6. CLE could be 10-6 and own win over Bills. IND could wind up 11-5 or 10-6.

Here is my question: He plays a few bad games and the thought is that he is young, needs more time, was known to be a project. He plays one good game and it is how can you say he is not clearly getting better. It can be both. He can have a bad game and still have the potential to be a good QB. He can have a good game and still be an awful QB. Point is that until he plays consistently at a certain level there are going to be questions. Until he starts consistently makes good decisions, has proper footwork, shows improved accuracy. One good game against an awful team does not prove either way nor does bad game against a good team.

Having good players never hurts. Add M Thomas, Hopkins, J Jones, etc to this team and they are clearly better. Do you have to have one to win? No. But you could say the same for any position. It is a team sport. You need some form of balance and/or really good players that enable you to win.