HomeskillitMoorman

Just trying to understand the first part…do you think it’s not a failure if the Bills don’t come away with a SB in Josh’s career? Or were you talking about just this season?

A lot of guys on D looked washed on Sunday night. A scary amount.

Yeah ultimately if he caused confusion by not calling timeout, I do think Josh would've taken the reigns and got them up there to spike it. If I were Harbaugh I probably wouldn't have called timeout and if the Bills figured out what they were going to do, I would've called it around 15 seconds, you know at that point they're going to kick it and you'd get the ball back with maybe 10 seconds for a chance at a miracle play.

They would have just kicked it if it was 3rd down and 15 seconds when he called the timeout. I do wonder though if we would've caught on fast enough if he just didn't call timeout at all or if it would've been really rushed. But that is true...they would've either possibly had us rush it or would've had a few seconds to possibly get into position for a Hail Mary if they had called it later.

Nah, that's part of the game. Why do fans see it as it not being OK for players to taunt the fans when the fans do it to them all the time? You can yell and taunt all you want from either side...but you can't initiate contact like that from either side either. The Bills fan in this case was totally in the wrong. As others have said, if Lamar had punched him in the face, he would've IMO been well within reason.

I think he was almost stunned that he went completely unblocked and unaccounted for. Haha I saw it last night too but didn't want to harp on a negative when it was such an amazing win. But yikes how brutal would it have been to lose on a block where he was allowed to rush in totally free?

Short yardage was brutal. Whether we tried to run, QB "sneaks" or whatever some of those were, and the 2pt calls. Lot of work to be done there. There is definitely a lack of creativity on these plays. These are plays that should be fun for an OC, especially 2nd and short when we're at midfield or something, the whole playbook is open.

Doesn’t look like anything’s changed on D

Not being sure about Hurts at this point is kind of strange

But why do you see it as a waste if we don't win it all in future seasons with a new coach but don't see it that way with what's been happening already? By that definition hasn't McDermott wasted almost all of Josh's 20's over the last 7 years? The same question could be asked of you for wanting to stick with him...how many years of Josh's career are you willing to risk wasting?

I don't think we've been that close at all to getting to the SB for the last 5 seasons. 2021 and 2023 we got blown out, 2024 would have been pretty tough to pull off with that D. 3 of those years were 3 Divisional losses in a row. Last year we were close to getting there, maybe the 13 seconds game year with how dialed in the offense was? But even then McD's defense was a total sieve, we likely would have had to score 30+ in every game the rest of the way to win it all. It could have been done but the obstacle McD and his incompetency on his side of the ball presents here is and obviously has been really tough to overcome in January. I don't agree that we've been on the verge of winning it nearly every season...most of the seasons we haven't. Most of us believe Allen is right up there with Mahomes and any other QB...but he's been to 5 SB's and our guy has been to none despite overall playing lights out in the playoffs and really only having 1 clunker, the Cincy game. Mahomes has had multiple clunkers and still has gotten to 5 SB's and won 3. He has had contributions from his defense and coaching, something we have not for a long time now. It's just not as simple as saying "well this is better than the drought years" because we do have a generational QB. The expectations and standards change. We've been underperforming in the postseason with what we have now. I think the example people talked about here was a really good one about MJ and losing to the Pistons and how they overcame it when they hired a new coach that helped get them over that hump. MJ even really liked Doug Collins, the guy he couldn't win it all with, and he was a good coach...but he struggled with taking that team to the next level. Is it possible to win it all in spite of having a coach that struggles with that? Sure. But why keep that obstacle in place? Like another poster mentioned, as an example what if we have another lights out offensive season with Brady and the D lets us down again for the 7th straight postseason and we lose and teams are calling about Brady...does it make sense at that point to keep McD when we could promote Brady and keep the offense and hire a new D coordinator that can maybe just make the unit somewhat close to mediocre in the playoffs? I think that's a good question for people who do really like McD.

Dak actually made some big time throws in the 2nd half and Ceedee dropped them all

Let's say for a second we all came to an agreement on this issue where you're at...does that change that McD's defenses have been a weakness and let us down in just about every postseason? What if as a defensive coach his defenses just keep costing us huge even more in January? Do we just stay status quo because they hit on the QB even if McD is not the right guy to get us over the hump?

I have a feeling you're not the only one with that feeling

Me too, 100%. It's not some kind of personal vendetta. I would love to end up being wrong about him, there would be no better outcome.

I don't know what the big gamble would be though. Most decent HC's could take this team to the playoffs. I'd be willing to take that risk of flopping, whatever that would look like, in hopes of a guy getting us over the hump than just stick with a guy that can't do it that has his side of the ball fail us every single postseason.

How could I possibly guarantee that with anyone I would name? Just like you can't guarantee that McD will win a SB here. And I wouldn't ask that because it's silly. And I didn't say a defensive coach can't win it, I said McD is a defensive coach whose defense has let us down for 6 straight years in the postseason. His side of the ball has been our big weakness and liability in the most important games every year. That didn't happen with Belichick's defenses on the Giants or Patriots. I'm starting to think you don't even read what people are writing here.

The whole "people would still complain if we won the SB" thing is so lazy and disingenuous. You're acting as if people who criticize McD have nothing rational to stand behind. He's a defensive coach whose defense has let us down in 6 straight postseasons. He has a QB that overall has been lights out in the playoffs and he's only a little better than .500 in those games and 0-4 vs the Chiefs, all 4 in which his D has gotten completely smoked by them even in seasons where they are not doing that to the rest of the league. He mismanaged one of those in which he was given a lead with 13 seconds left. It's fine if you happen to like the guy or if you want to try to defend any of those things. I don't care if people disagree with me about football and am happy to debate. But what you are saying is the equivalent to me just saying that you're a McD Stan who loves him more than the team and that you'll be on your knees for him no matter what he does...instead of actually debating it in football terms. You're trying to turn it into this being some psychological exercise of anyone who doesn't like McD is some kind of intentionally fatalistic depressed cynic that wants the Bills to lose so they can keep complaining about him...when really it's the opposite...they're venting because they WANT the Bills to win it all and some thing being rid of him would be the best path to that. I disagree with people who want to keep McD but I give them enough credit as Bills fans to believe they really think keeping him is the best path forward to winning it all. We just happen to disagree on that. If we lose again this year and McD's defense and/or game management is a big reason again and we fired him and won the SB next year with a different coach, I'm not going to try go find all the people who defended him and tell them to go "p**s up a rope". That's just such a childish way to look at this.

I mean you'd hope McD would start evolving after 6 straight postseasons of him and his side of the ball letting us down in the biggest games Yup, and I'd still be over the moon about winning a SB but obviously it's very tough to win a SB in spite of your HC...I think we'd probably only luck into that once if at all. It would be one of those things if McD is still in for the long haul that if we did win 1 that'll probably be it and we'll be really happy about that...but at the same time it'll be very similar to how Colts fans feel about the Peyton era, that it should have been more with a good coach and that it's hard to believe they only got 1. But at this point I'd still take 1.

That hypocrisy you mentioned definitely exists, I wouldn't even deny that. I think all or mostly all people want to in some ways be the gatekeepers on what's OK to follow and what isn't based on what we think is legitimate. There is a danger, as which happened with Luigi and sympathy for him that followed...where people get to this point if they keep getting pushed around. Again as I mentioned to someone else, watching NFL games is obviously a luxury and not a necessity like healthcare so it's way different, but people are going to try to find ways around the system when it feels like it's futile to fight back the "right way". Also not to derail this but I helped someone I knew that was older set up a lawsuit in Florida (I assume it's probably like this in most states) against a health insurance company to fight back the "right way" and they make it really difficult to do it. They have the State on their side in making it difficult. You have to file a dispute with the State, you have to get a certificate from a doctor among other things and this person would not have been able to do all that themselves and couldn't afford an attorney until one finally took the case a little later on. But it's all by design, they want you to give up and just accept it. That's a long-winded way to say I think it's a two-way street. Maybe it's not the best way to say it...but they're kind of asking for it.

Because that last part does change things. I understand what you're saying but I do think there's a level of egregiousness happening here that is sending more people in this direction...but I also get that at least a chunk of people would be doing it anyway. Someone just made a post in this thread mentioning Luigi...some of that is that it's pretty tough to fight back. It's not the same obviously because this is a luxury and healthcare isn't...but in the context of this, you're depriving yourself of something you enjoy if you just abstain from it. So people see finding illegal streams to watch for free as the mode to fight back.

I don't understand how you only see that one way. I do pay for Sunday Ticket, but I don't get all the gazillion apps to be able to catch all the Bills games, I do go to these sites. Getting all the different apps isn't worth it to me for what they offer, so I take the route to watch them for free on these sites. I don't think they're the victims for that when they're going out of their way to make this more complex than it needs to be.

I mean the NFL knew that when they sold to them. It's insane how much they don't want to do right by their own fans.

Because they're so egregiously taking advantage of us. If they wanted to both make money and do right by the fans, they would consolidate this whole thing into just Sunday Ticket. This mess they've created of how to actually watch all the games you want to is in your face proof of how much they want to gouge us. That core belief is bred from their actions and intentions.

Right, and I could have more sympathy if they weren't so outwardly gouging us. Like if you just bought Sunday Ticket and got all the games instead of having to have like 8 different apps to actually be able to watch all your teams games or even just the ones you want, I could probably get there. But what they're doing, charging the amounts they are and on top of it making it this complicated, I fully support the piracy sites.