SoTier

Watson looked good but he played in exactly 7 games. The number of QBs who have looked great for fewer than 10 games as first time starters and then tanked are legion. Most recently and spectacularly are Brock Osweiler and Colin Kaepernick, which why it takes at least two and sometimes three years to decide if a QB is truly a keeper.

Russell Wilson proved that you don't even have to be 6'0 to play in the NFL.

I think this is a good assessment. I don't think Whaley was an independent GM who called all the personnel shots himself, so he couldn't build a team with his own vision. No Bills GM has been independent since Donahoe was fired in 2005. Whaley definitely didn't pick his own HCs, and he was definitely subservient to both Ryan and McDermott when it came to the draft. My feeling is that the decisions on which players were to be kept or allowed to walk in FA were done by higher ups in the Bills organization based only on monetary considerations. I think that Beane is pretty much in the same situation as Whaley was ... the figurehead GM at the beck and call of the HC for the draft and of the FO higher ups for player retention ... or in the case of the Bills, player non-retention.

I will add that the Chargers have staked their current claim to being a "hot team" on beating the Bills with Peterman and beating the Cowpies without Elliott and without their LT Smith. This week they get to play the winless Browns.

Where did I predict anybody's doom? With several gushing posters declaring McDermott a hero and savior based on the "feel good" article that was posted, Shaw66 pointed out that McDermott is still going to be judged by how well his team does on the field. I supported him by noting that even NFL icons can get tossed in the trash if their recent records aren't good enough, and that observation has nothing to do with "logic" but with fact. What is illogical is declaring McDermott a great coach and leader based on a "feel good" article. Secondly, don't think that accusing me of being a troll is going to silence me when it comes to criticizing moves the Bills have made or make that I think are bad, stupid, wrong-headed, short-sighted or a combination of any or all of those. I've been a fan of the Bills longer than many of the posters on this MB have been alive. I've been a season ticket holder, too, so I've earned the right to express my opinion on the team, past and present. If my opinion is mostly negative, well, the Bills haven't made the playoffs for 17 years and appear to have done all they could possibly do to insure that they miss for the 18th straight year in 2017. They had exactly 2 -- count 'em, 2! -- winning seasons in those 17 years. This season they strung together 3 of the worst losses ever experienced by this francise in its mostly losing history. What the hell is there to be positive about? That Jauronball 2.0 might be slightly less mind-numbingly boring than Jauronball 1.0?

The claim has been that Woods and Goodwin were allowed to walk because they didn't "fit the skill set" that the Bills needed. Who would have decided the "skill sets" players needed in March? McDermott and Dennison. Get a clue. Every team needs at least one speedy WR to stretch the field. Benjamin and Matthews are not going to catch passes 30 yards downfield, juke the DB, and sprint to the EZ. They aren't fast enough, and that's why they're not equivalent. They are not going to force defenses to play well off the LOS simply because the DBs are concerned about keeping them from catching long passes and scoring. By not having at least one WR like Watkins, Woods, or Goodwin, the Bills automatically limit their ability to make chunk plays, and that would be true no matter who their QB was, including Rodgers, Brady, Brees, etc.

Totally agree. I said something similar in another thread the other day. Who cares if Tyrod Taylor isn't "the future"? He's who the Bills have now, and while he's not a top shelf franchise QB, the Bills could do a whole lot worse than him. If creating a game plan structured to his talents -- and the talents of the OLers and RBs -- can get the Bills more wins, maybe even make the playoffs as a WC, how is that a bad thing? All this whining about how "we'd be one and done" is nonsense, too. Any team can win in the WC round ... especially this year. More importantly, winning and making the playoffs in 2017 certainly doesn't preclude a team from improving in 2018 and aiming higher, including drafting a "QB for the future".

NFL = NOT FOR LONG. Coaches and players are only as good as their recent records. So Eli Manning, the iconic face of the NY Giants for the last 13 years who bleeds Giant blue, gets dumped for Geno Smith.

Really? They let both Woods and Goodwin walk in FA and then they traded Watkins. Benjamin and Matthews are NOT the equivalent of any two of the three receivers the Bills got rid of simply because they cannot stretch the field. Zay Jones isn't a deep threat, either, and it's only been recently that he's been able to catch the ball. The Bills have absolutely no deep threat ... for a QB who has demonstrated that he can and will throw long in the past. Benjamin, Matthews, and Jones are nothing special, and together, they're a joke as an NFL caliber WR corps -- and Benjamin has barely played. Oh, and stuff the excuses for the Bills FO and the " so-and-so probably wasn't coming back next year ... ". We've heard this bull manure every single time the Bills get rid of a good player in order to replace him with a cheaper, less talented player. The Bills FO has spent the last 17 years religiously shedding good players rather than pay them and paying certain very average players for reasons known only to the suits at OBD, and what they did under the supposed "new regime" is exactly the same kind of thing they did regularly under the "old regimes".

Hey, don't whine to me that the brilliant Bills chose to let their Pro Bowl DB Gilmore walk in FA and had to draft a DB in order to fill the hole left by that move. That's been a pattern that the Bills have followed since the salary cap was instituted: they either let the good/great DBs, WRs, RBs that they've developed walk in FA or trade them for not all that much and then use the draft to fill the holes created by the departure of said DBs, WRs & RBS. Every time I've pointed out that the Bills did that exact same thing in 2017 despite having a "new" regime, including GM and scouts, I've been attacked by certain true believers who claim everything is all fixed now. Well, it ain't. The new regime is doing the same that the old regimes have done. So, be happy spinning fantasies about the yet unnamed QB the Bills will draft in 2018, maybe even with that first rounder from the Chiefs -- and don't cry in your beer that the Bills could have had Patrick Mahomes or DeShaun Watson instead of Nathan Peterman or that fantastic unnamed QB to be named later.

Not only can you read Mara and McAdoo's minds, you can foretell the future, too! Can you share the winning LOTTO numbers please?

That's because teams don't go out and dump their first round QBs before the end of their initial contracts unless they are horrendous and obvious busts (ala Ja'Marcus Russell). They give them four years to prove themselves. It's why Bortles is Jax's QB despite his poor play. Moreover, if you draft another QB while you're trying to figure out if your earlier pick is worth keeping, that new kid is wasted sitting on the bench and playing for the scout team for at least a year.

Since the Giants have been doing an excellent job of losing games with Eli as their QB, why chance wrecking a good thing by inserting a QB who might get lucky and win an extra game or two?

As a successful QB? Maybe not, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. My point is that all these folks expecting the Bills to hit the NFL lottery by just because they draft a QB in the first round are more likely to be disappointed than not. Maybe the Bills would do better, if there's no suitable QB available in the first round, to consider looking for a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round who has a real excuse for not being a first rounder (like being short like Russell Wilson or being relegated to mostly backup duty because of athletic department politics like Tom Brady).

They drafted them because they (the Bills) WERE idiots. As I said, it seems like they drafted both just to please the fans, and each choice was egregious in it's own way. Losman cost them their 2005 first round pick (plus a 2004 2nd and 5th) which they could have used on Aaron Rodgers, who was available at #18. Manuel was the best QB in probably the worst QB class in a couple of decades. That was blatantly just drafting a QB in the first round -- any QB -- just to say they did. If they gotten their heads out of their butts a year earlier, they could have had Russell Wilson or Kirk Cousins but Buddy Nix didn't like QBs who weren't in the preferred physical mold.

Oh, I don't doubt that they will. I just hope it's not for the wrong reason (to please the fans) or worse, trade up to draft a QB for the wrong reason.

He apparently played poorly enough that the Giants owner ok'd him being benched for a career backup QB, which is worse IMO. At least Peterman was "unknown". Geno is all too well "known".

There was a discussion about this a while back, and numerous posters made persuasive arguments that over his entire career, Eli has been a very average QB. He's had seasons and parts of seasons in which he's been marvelously great but other seasons and parts of seasons when he's stunk up the stadium. He's just not a superior QB who might have a bad game or 2 in a season the way his brother was or the way QBs like Rodgers, Brady, Brees, and Rivers are. He has bad games in bunches.

This is what makes me angriest about the Bills this year. It's like they (the FO and at least some of the coaching staff like Dennison) decided that since the players Bills had didn't fit their pre-conceived ideas of what they wanted, they basically gave up on the season despite the fact that the Bills played pretty well the first half of the season. That's an insult to the players and to the fans.

What if there's no QB worth drafting left by the time the Bills pick in the first round? To say, "they better draft a QB in the first round" without even knowing which QBs will actually be availabe for the draft seems foolhardy to me and smacks of just drafting a QB to please the fans. The Bills, of course, will probably do it ... they seem to have drafted Losman and Manuel for just that reason. FYI: between 2000 and 2015, there have been as many as 4 QBs go in the first round but only in 2004 did as many as 3 of the first rounders become top QBs. 2005 (Smith, Rodgers), 2008 (Ryan, Flacco), and 2012 (Luck, Tannehill) had 2 first rounders who were keepers. You might include 2015 (Winston, Mariota) as well but neither one has made enough progress to say they "top QBs" right now. 2002, 2006, 2007, 2010, and 2013 didn't produce any franchise QBs from any round, and 2014 looks to be another dud unless Teddy Bridgewater not only comes back from a devastating injury but also plays significantly better than he did early in his career.

This is something that too many Bills fans just cannot get their brains around. They believe that the Bills are going to somehow manage to draft the next Aaron Rodgers just because they draft a QB in the first round. Where they'll be drafting, they'll be lucky to get somebody as good as an Andy Dalton or Ryan Tannehill or Jay Cutler. More than likely, if they draft a first round QB in 2018 just to put butts in the seats, which is what they did in 2004 and 2013, they'll get the same result they got then: a JP Losman or an EJ Manuel. None of the veteran QBs likely to be available as FAs next season -- Bradford, Brees, Cousins, Keenum, Manning are probably the best of the lot -- will be willing to come to the Bills with their crappy OL and WR corps. Maybe they could trade for Alex Smith -- give KC back their first rounder which would be a Billsy thing to do -- and maintain their sterling reputation for being the NFL's easiest team to dupe.

In the WC game? Unlikely, and even more so this year when the only two truly dominant teams in the AFC are NE and Pitt who won't be playing in the WC game. Besides, if Tim Tebow can lead the 8-8 Denver Broncos to a playoff win over the Pittsburgh Steelers, ANY team that makes the playoffs has a chance to win a WC game. What the hell do you think Peterman playing 2 or 3 games at the end of the season is going to tell you about him? Do you know how many really crappy QBs have looked really good for a few games and then bombed out when asked to start long term? I think Brock Osweiller is the most spectacular recent one but the Bills once thought Trent Edwards was their savior because he looked good as a rookie. It usually takes a couple of years or more as a starter to be sure a QB is a real deal. BTW, Peterman didn't play particularly well at Pitt. He only came to the notice of most pro scouts at the Senior Bowl practices.

Or maybe the thing that separates Belichick from the rest of the NFL coaches is that he actually believes what he says and prepares accordingly? I disagree. Parcells was a pretty good coach, but he was dependent on Belichick for much of his reputation. He never won a playoff game without Belichick as his DC.

It makes me both angry and sad that Simpson was the best Bills player ever ... and that memories of him are forever tarnished by his actions after he retired from the game.

So, that's an excuse to dismantle the offense? The QB's not good enough so we'll get rid of all his WRs, screw up the OL by forcing a new blocking scheme on them that simply doesn't fit the personel, and hurt the running game by replacing a decent second RB with a crappy one, and that will surely give us the opportunity to do what, exactly? Prove that Taylor isn't "good enough"? Lose as many games as possible? Demonstrate once again that the Bills remain committed to avoiding the playoffs at all costs?