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I mean its not really a slight Reid-McVay are untouchable top 2 after that: Kevin O'Connell-Kyle Shanahan-Matt Lafluer-John Harbuagh-Jim Harbaugh all have had tremendous success and are credited for their coaching being a difference maker in big games. No way I put McD above any of them. So now your talking Dan Campbell, Sean Payton, Nick Siriani, Mike Tomlin, Dan Quinn all as guys to fill out the last three spots. McD would rank someone in that group. So yeah fringe top 10 feels about right depending on how you respect coaching what each guy does.

At this point I have just accepted that McD will be the coach for better or worse. He it probably a fringe top 10 guy in the league which means he is better than a lot but when he has to go against a Reid or coach of that caliber we are immediately at a disadvantage. To me in general the coach gm org itself is fringe top 10 but Allen raises the boats, Pegula knows if he touches it he risks losing the winning even though you can see a change could help. IF they actually ever break through its going to be because Josh was perfect and/or the defense finally makes some plays with competent enough coaching. But I am now pessimistic of even that happening anymore. You made the point with Levy getting out coached. I watched a thing on one of the two SBs vs Dallas and Johnson literally trained his players fumble protection and for defense proper technique to create fumbles. He excelled at even small things like that. Come SB sure enough it pays off for Dallas. Levy & McD are great leaders of men and macro mgmt type coaches, but the finer points slip when the details matter. Honestly Joe Brady regardless of the AFC title game showed more to me in terms of detail in his season and half then anything McD has done.

I absolutely loathe the Hasek comparison. With respect to Josh, Hasek is virtually the best hockey goalie of all time and only maybe Roy challenges him when you break out the advanced stats on how much Hasek did. By comparison Josh is going to be one of the top 3 for his era which is superb, but he is not going to be in the Mahomes Brady Montana Manning group unless he adds a ton of hardware quickly and some rings. They are not remotely comparable as players at this time despite my love for 17 and everything he has done. Josh had a good game not great and it isn't unfair to say he should've been a bit better, but that also factors in the entire team (minus Cook & Mack) and coaches should have been better. Somehow it is being lost that saying "I wish Josh did a little more" means throwing out that he still was let down by his defense and coaches. No one ever has pointed a finger at him for 21' because he was perfect in 13 seconds, he takes a little blame for this year and last year because he was a grade of B-B+ in both games and had errors not just limited to the last drive. This isn't year 2 or 3 anymore either, the hour glass is starting to lose sand and everyone is starting to feel like if not now then when.

lmao thought the same and had a lottttt of questions on his football credentials

I am sorry but it does not go back to 13 seconds and to me that game has forever been overblown. 13 seconds is a symptom just like the loss Sunday of the teams inability to breakthrough whether due to coaching, failed execution, ref calls, bad luck, or 17 himself not being at his best. I understand why people harp on 13 seconds but it fails to acknowledge: 1. The game did not get them to the SB 2. They had to win two more games to actually win the SB. 3. CIN was an absolute nightmare in 21 and 22 as shown by our loss. Just because the AFC title game was at home was no lock by any means that they would win and the Rams themselves were a more then formidable foe in that SB. 13 seconds is romanticized as the one because the offense was at its peak at the right time and it was year 3 of the rebuild so it still felt fresh and new. It fails to ignore reality that they did not win the SB that day and much work was needed to do that. Where I am in agreement with 13 seconds is that is when Camelot fell in terms of no criticism of coach/gm and the Bills finally missed their first chance at a good look at the SB. Up until this game everything had felt like progress and building, 13 seconds was the first fall nothing more. If the Bills keep spinning their tires and don't breakthrough long term 24' will look like a far larger miss than 13 seconds. Fits their narrative. It has been my biggest complaint with fans about 13 seconds is that somehow they not only beat KC but somehow won 2 other games and the SB in the divisional round. Major miss? Absolutely. Worse than this last Sunday? No way.

I have really wondered if the Bengals trade down and add more picks. I think Higgins walks but they need an infusion of talent on defense badly and it feels like they try to solve more problems rather then just taking a WR even if Higgins goes. The issue for CIN was not offense and Burrow can raise the floor for younger or lesser FA WR, like BUF this last year they really need to restock the defense if their goal is to get back with BAL.

If I were to rank them adjusting for era as the game was different literally for each QB comparatively I would go as followed: 1. Bradshaw 2. Kelly 3. Allen 4. Big Ben The game is in a whole different world now compared to the 1970s. In the 1970s the top 3 QBs were Staubach, Bradshaw, & Tarkenton. Bradshaw has the hardware, was a top 3 guy, has an MVP, was all decade, 2 SB MVPs etc.. he carries the weight across the board both talent for the time and accomplishments. I understand todays generation does not understand how drastically the game has changed, but era wise Bradshaw was a GOAT the way Josh is with Lamar & Mahomes except Bradshaw has all the hardware too. After that Kelly doesn't have a ring but he has everything else and for his time was again with in that Top 3 group. Additionally at retirement only Fran Tarkenton, Dan Fouts, and Johnny Unitas among Hall of Fame quarterbacks had passed for more yardage, and only Tarkenton, and Fouts had completed more passes. His impact on the game with the K Gun was revolutionary for its time. And to Kellys defense he led the team down for GW FG in SB25, he did his part even if he had a good not great game. Allen is clearly top 3 in the league and him & Lamar flip flop daily it feels for being #2 after Mahomes. Things get tricky because he has no hardware and no SB appearances at this point. But Big Ben for as good as he was never got an All Pro (either 1st or 2nd), no SB MVP although he was good in their 2nd SB win, and during his time of play he was never in Brady or Peytons class. There was a legitimate argument that he was the worst of the big 3 in the draft of 2004 and got drafted to the best situation compared to Rivers or Eli which only helped inflate his accomplishments. Big Ben is going to the HOF in a few years, but to me he is in the really really good crop of players not era defining. Allen is going to finish era defining regardless of hardware which is why I can get him to 3. If Allen wants to crack the top 2 he needs some hardware though at this point.

This is a fair point and I would add this offseason really is big in terms of the next 3-4 years as they have a youthful core that needs a bit more to push it over the edge. My counter point though is the Ravens were better this year than last regardless of record yet flamed out a game earlier. Yes more talent and resources can be added so the team has a larger margin of error and weapons to work with, but opportunity cost is real. Odds are they are not making the AFC title game the next 3 years straight and Josh has played half his prime. You had a truly golden chance to punch that ticket and missed. It is just as hard if not harder to get back to where they were on Sunday. I am not willing to write off this season as pure positive because the expectation was reload/reset when the big dance was right there. My confidence is admittedly shaken in the team and 17 so I won't comment further, but logically your more on point as is Joe than many of us want to hear right now.

I let myself rage for the first bit after to get it out of my system. Now I’ll just move on to not focusing on football and eventually get back into it come august. Wont lie though the scars of this loss and failure to break thru have me giving up my seasons and in general pulling back. I’ll watch and go to a game or two but overall it’s not that serious and worth investing the way I have. I found accepting that has made it easier to move on and let it go.

Truth hurts doesn’t it. 17 ain’t got the goods and showed it again last night. Done ignoring reality, until he breaks through which he keeps failing at he is a choker and can’t do it.

3:32 and 3 timeouts can’t get it done. Last year fails when it matters vs KC. HOU in 2019. I’m over protecting or excusing Josh he owns the failure to. It isn’t gonna happen with him would rather regress then pretend it’s ever a reality at this point.

I’m out of juice with this team. Honestly the drought was easier because you were done by week 14 so whatever. Instead for years now teased of the big one with no result. Whether coaching or 17 they can’t do it and I’m over it at this point. Not renewing seasons and in general just stepping back as it feels like such a disappointing waste of time that won’t ever give a payoff.

Could care less. Trade him and get what you can, who cares at this point.

Yes he isn’t immune. He had the opportunity every QB asks for, but unlike Mahomes Brady Manning he failed. He’s had his chances to prove himself and hasn’t, he’s a choker until otherwise and they aren’t going anywhere with him.

Yep 100%!l agree. 17 is a choker and it isn’t changing. I use to defend him but at this point he’s had too many cracks without breaking through when he’s had the ball. Would rather trade him outright and be done.

Nothing changes. Rinse repeat good seasons only for coaching or 17 to fail us come post season. At this point blow it all up and reset from scratch as their not gonna get over the hump and zero reason to continue as constructed.

Agreed. Their offense is as diverse as Buffalo's and even if Hollywood has not played much and Hopkins is older (so is Cooper/Hollins) they are incredibly effective weapons.

Bills 27 Chiefs 21 Stress throughout, years coming off lives but the SB awaits

I think if they need to get into a game that becomes an aerial battle they will. The offense is finally so diversified it can do what is needed based on the opponent. I had not been able to say that with Josh until this year.

Buffalo's gameplan was logical and their best avenue to win. On a night with cold snowy conditions it favors running the ball as putting the ball in the air means potential for mistakes in that weather. The Bills basically said will take the clock and chances that you will make mistakes and that is what happened while playing super safe themselves. The fact the Ravens didn't do more of that explains why they fell.

I emphasize in the frustration of having such a great QB and not being able to breakthrough. That frustration and know you have a certain timeframe to get rings with them hangs until it happens or it doesnt and every miss adds to the frustration. I do not emphasize with this being the end of the world and their cursed or other crap I have seen. I have seen the Ravens win 2 SB titles in my life. Lamar right now is playing to win a title and etch his name as an all time great. Josh & this group are playing not only for that but to finally end 60+ years of pain and heartbreak which hangs over the franchise and city/area in general to finally win it all. The circumstances are vastly different and outside of Viking fans no other fanbase knows the feeling of being this close so many times and being 0-4 and the weight that sits there because of it. CLE/DET fans have had their misery but truthfully losing in the big game the way BUF/MIN has and knowing you were so close mixed with the other misses is another level of pain. Realistically odds are Lamar will break through one of these times and get his shot. At least while Raven fans wait they can count the rings and watch the highlight film in frustration instead of sitting here hoping for one in my lifetime.

Bills 32 Ravens 24 Enough has been said but in the end Allen wins the game, Lamar is great, and analysis after is overblown and stupid on both sides.

not gonna hold my breath haha

lol i know my bad Earl the Pearl!

Was waiting to see how I felt until end of week and with the All Pro snub which probably means no MVP Denver is toast. Not going into my long prediction because Buffalo now will be coming out like the gates of hell opening and Denver will never be truly close. 21-10 at half as Buffalo runs out quick with points, 35-17 finale and Josh is going to put up 4 TDs Bills 35 Orange Horsey People 17 Allen 24-30 350 yds 3 TDs 9 yds rush 1 TD