Rochesterfan

Totally irrelevant as he started going to the ground on his own and therefore to complete the catch he needed to possess the ball through the ground. Now if it had been ruled a catch and a fumble by Tolbert - then the breaking of the plane by the ball would have mattered, but since it was ruled incomplete - I do not think they overturn that.

I agree for the most part - I think they need to review in either case. The issue is if they rule a TD just to allow the review - it is hard to overturn - so you are benefiting one outcome over another. I think the ruling on the field stands and a challenge there becomes a wasted timeout - which impacts our scoring drive before the half and therefore this small decision has major impact later in the game. Another good decision by McD - I believe.

I agree - they also wanted a back-up that could come out of the back field and make caches - something else JW had not done much of. I think JW was the better RB, but Tolbert is a more complete player and fits things they want out of the backup. Since JW struggled in pass protection and pass catching and could not play special teams - he did not have a designated role. Banyard and TJ both have special teams ability that they wanted for a 3rd string RB. I believe that have a pretty good idea of what they wanted out of the roster at each position for both starters , back-ups, and 3rd stringers in relation to roles they needed those guys to perform.

I don't disagree, but if things like Cogs grabbing the Bronco's player leg and lifting it to get him to the ground have no impact - why did Cogs feel the need to do it. It was a bush league move by Cogs and I think it should of been called - there was no reason to do it, but he purposely reach out and grabbed his lower leg as he tried to pursue McCoy. I think there were some suspect calls, but many were borderline and the Refs make a call based upon where they were standing at the time. OL get a lot of benefit of the doubt to the inside where Kyle and usually Dareus make noise, but guys get called when the tackles move outside and leave the guards visible to the Refs. If our OTs were better and our QB stayed more in the pocket - many of the calls go away, but the tackles have to get so deep and TT moves and those expose the guards to the holding calls.

Good Luck - I hope you see how sad the board is to see you go

Go and read from the official stats net passing yards - it was 193 - that was the only reason I asked because I figured he would be close and have sacks. The NFL does not include scrambles in net passing yards - sorry. Yeah I am watching a lot of games - your point being that we should not want a guy with more consistency. Yes there is a lot of bad QBing around the league including in Buffalo - teams should always be looking to get better. This is what makes TT so difficult- if he was consistent like this week - more people would trust him and if he was consistent like last week - we could easily move on, but he is inconsistent and shows one week he understands what they are looking for and one week he doesn't.

Damn I called it right - squeaked over 200 yards passing and under 200 net passing - pretty much exactly what I expected. TT made some nice plays - still late on throws, but he made plays. Many of the plays he made this week - were available last week - today he made the throws and last week he didn't. The perfect example was the TD to Clay late across the middle to the wide open guys and last week he had that throw to O'Leary and tried to fit it in to a tightly covered FB.

That is exactly what Baltimore did last year stop Shady and force TT to beat them. There will be games that a team puts 8-9 guys in the box and Shady will break 1-2 long runs because of a crease. I think the key is the horizontal zones in the passing game - getting guys that are covered 1:1 and hitting them in stride as they move through a zone. That spreads the defense out opening up lanes to pass and run. What I find scary about this is the outside zone rushing attack is designed to attack DEs and OLBs and that is supposed to open up the middle part of the field - which we exploited in game 1. Carolina used Kechely as a Spy many times - just watching TT and moving where gaps in the DLine would open up and that left him in the short middle of the field much of the game - so the openings needed to be deeper middle and quick slants. As I have said in other threads - I think this offense plays into the strengths of the WRs and TEs and FBs we have and should work for Shady as a running back, but it does not play into the strengths of TT. I think they want to see what these guys can do and then look this off season for the QB that fits what they want - be that a more experienced Peterman, a rookie, or a veteran from another team. I also think that the right side of the OLine needs improvement before we are ready to go.

I understand everyone's concern, but I think we all remember last year by how the whole season played out - not a couple of games. The NYJ game this year was better than the first 2 games last year combined by nearly 50 yards and Ithink they could of run for more in that game - they opened holes all over. The Carolina game which looked terrible was still better than Baltimore last year and almost as good as the rushing attack versus the Jets in Game 2 last year. Yes we see some of the same issues cropping up, but teams that have strong fast LBs and a good DL are going to give most teams trouble in the running game. The running game works in his offense in conjunction with the passing game. If a team can stop one or the other for long stretchs it is going to look bad. They need to get a least one aspect working to take pressure off from the other and open it up. They had the exact same issue in Baltimore last year where neither could get going until Baltimore backed off late in the game.

I am not in because I say both positive and negative things as I see fit and I will not limit that for a useless bet, but I think we need to clear up one thing are we talking net or gross passing yards? I unfortunately do not see the Bills winning, but I think it could come down to a last minute play again. My concern is the argument about passing yards as I could see TT squeaking over 200 yards, but taking 5 sacks for -30 yards and having to listen to both side argue about whether he hit 200 yards especially if some how they make the play at the end for a win. My gut right now is saying the lose and under 200 crowd is going to be doing a lot of talking just because of how active the front 7 is and how tight the back end plays for Denver. I do not think this bodes well, but Seattle was a shock so it could happen again.

I have posted this several times - I do not expect them to try and fit the offense to TT at all. He is a bridge to the next guy. They are building their offense for the coming years and TT is not a part of that plan. They were looking to bring in WCO slot WRs that can run a bunch of routes from all over the field. They are looking for RBs, FBs, and TEs that can run a and catch so they can utilize the entire width of the field. It is a very horizontal concept with multiple levels where you need your QB to read one guy and decide between 2 routes. This is not a fit for TT, but hopefully tells you what they are looking for in their next QB. If they wanted to build for TT - the offense and the players need to be very different. Rex and Roman (& Lynn) were using TT as the QB of the future so they designed an offense to fit him. I believe Dennison could build plays that better fit TT, but that destroys what they want. McD has repeatedly said they are building a team. They have a offense they want and are going to run it to try and determine who fits and who doesn't as they move forward. I think about 1/2 way through the season they will change QBs and we will see what looks like a totally different offense with a more rhythm passer. I think they are trying to win with TT - a safe QB- but they do not want to build around him so they are trying to fit him into the concept they want run.

Need a little of both - along with not the best route. The throw was a bit to far inside, Zay cut the route a bit to far toward the sidelines. Zay got both hands on the ball, but awkward - that is maybe a 50/50 catch - so a bit of a drop. all around a play that is just not good enough by either player.

Not only is it unrealistic, but it requires very different players for a TT designed offense versus a WCO. If the team is looking long term (and I think they are) then you bring in WCO style WRs - guys like Zay and Jordan and you utilize RBs and FBs and TEs that can run patterns to the flat and the seam. If you think TT is your QB - you want taller, faster WRs so you can throw the go routes and deep routes. The Bills allowed the taller, faster receivers to leave and brought in specific WCO WRs - I think they are looking long term and are asking TT to do his best in what is not an ideal system.

I think some of this is right - Dennison is in this for the long haul not just what can we do this year. If they felt TT was the long term answer - then you design an offense around him. If the plan is to build an offense and you plan on drafting a QB - then you design the offense and see what TT can do in it.

I think TT is and can be an NFL QB, but the offense has to be designed 100% around him. You need to have a team committed to him and build that team to run specific patterns. The issue is this is not the offense for him and as this coaching staff is looking long term - not immediate results - they are installing an offense for the future and TT is not part of that future. If he worked out - great, but it is not. It sucks for TT and the fans, but the point is that this team is building for the long term and are not going to design plays that just fit what TT does and mess with the development of the rest of the team for the future. We will see more of the overall offense with Peterman, but he needs some time.

I am stopping after your first sentence. TS and TT are 2 very different QBs. TS is willing to throw the ball on time and therefore the offense works. We saw in preseason game 3 after TT went out how the design of the offense is supposed to work here with Peterman running it. The offense works if your QB throws on time - if not we get games like Carolina. I agree with something Sal said yesterday - TT has always been the best athlete and at some point probably in HS and college- he was taught if he was the least bit unsure of the throw - tuck and run because of your legs and speed. That is how he has played and it is very hard to learn to trust receivers and throw on time. I would of liked McCoy here, but I do not think his offense would look like it does with TT running it. You flip the coordinators and we have this same discussion about by McCoy is struggling. This is the same concepts Roman was trying to build in year 2 and it cost him his job because Taylor is not a rhythm passer.

We have seen that through 2 games - I think Dennison has schemed people open all over the place. Even guys that are covered break open for short bursts, but the ball must come out on time. This is why I said I do not think TT is a good fit for the offense. The preseason showed us the problems, but people thought they were going to unleash TT with roll outs and sprints. The unleashing of TT was combo routes and throwing to guys on time and through 2 games he has not been good at it. Even in game 1 versus the Jets - he made plays, but they were on late reads and late throws - not the timing that we need to maintain success.

This is another timing route and he has 2 guys breaking in both that were open and the ball comes out on time it is not a huge gain, but similar to what we got with 5 or 6 seconds less of clock time used. It is designed to be a quick read combo on the 2 person pattern to the left side. The read should of been in under a second and the ball out to Tolbert before 1.5 and the pressure. Yes average QBs make this read all of the time. Heck Josh McCown a terrible QB made this read 4-5 times last game against the Bills alone. Getting the ball out in under 2 seconds is a staple of the WCO if you have a QB. The issue is the play is there as designed, but TT is late and then looks to escape. It must be blocked better, but the QB needs to do his part on that play and he does not - he holds the ball and gets hit because of it.

Watching it multiple times and listening to ex-players like Donald Jones - I do not think this is on either TT or Zay. Donald Jones put it best I thought - the pass should be a bit more to the outside - placement was not perfect, but when the safety is so far to the middle - Zay should of stayed further inside because it is easier to adjust to a throw toward the sidelines than toward the middle. The pass and read was fine - the route was fine - both could of been better, but the combination of where the throw was and the way Zay ran the route made the catch very difficult. Both players need to learn from this. I will give TT a lot of credit for that throw because for everyone calling for Peterman - I do not think Peterman makes that throw. I think Peterman reads the D and hits Shady at the first down sticks and life continues. That was a throw for the win by TT and I applaud that effort. Wish he would do that more.

From this view it looks like it is on the line, but his previous tweet shows the design of the play is to the RB - Tolbert I believe. They run a pick to the outside and Tolbert is ready for a short gain with the LB 7 yards behind him. I do not know what the coaches are teaching for a read there, but the design says the RB should of been the read and his eyes go that way, but TT hesitates, brings the ball down and tries to get away. The line needs to do better to pick up the stunt and the QB needs to do more to help them with a quick delivery. This is the essence of the WCO - quick reads and hitting the correct guy on time. There is plenty of blame to go around on this play, but I think a QB that has been in this system makes a play there every time. What is important is does TT make that play going forward - based on history - No, but hopefully he can learn. I honestly think based on preseason play - Peterman makes that read and the ball is out toward Tolbert on time and he does not get hit. Also based on preseason based on what we saw the pass from Peterman could of been batted down as the LB was watching and had some space - it may or may not have worked.

I think there is a mistake - started at 21 got the 12 yards to the 33 if I remember correctly.

I will disagree fully with this - he could of set his feet to make that throw. Across the league this play gets made by many QBs that can roll out. It was simple - your full back is covered and you 2 guys coming - the play is set up to have 3 levels. The full back short, O'Leary slightly deeper and I believe it was Clay slightly deeper. It puts pressure on the defense on multiple levels and the D broke down and you have a guy wide open and TT never pulls off Dimarco. The issue is these throws are not always picked up by TT and this is a key play in this offense - you see these route combos throughout the game. He needs to make a read and come off the primary and pick up the secondary receivers. I believe that cause the Int in week 1 - he took to long to move to the Clay waiting for Zay to open up.

Useless to vote, but I would have no issue trying Peterman. If they choose to stay with TT - that is fine to, but then they need to adjust the offense. They seem to be installing a system and it does not fit TT strengths. If the system is what you want - then try Peterman and move on. If you want to try and win now - play TT and adjust the offense. I just hate watching TT look lost waiting for receivers to get open in this offense as it is built.

That was the play that even on the broadcast you could see Clay was open and TT never left his first read until it is to late. There were others like this with McCoy slipping out into the middle of the field.

Truth!