TPS

They need a couple more playmakers in general

Saving him for the playoffs I'm sure...

I was thinking the same. Bills are changing the national narrative and are a popular TV draw now. We’ll see in a few more hours...

Currently, he and Phillips have 52% of defensive snaps. Jerry is tops at 68% and Trent follows with 64%. Kyle had 68 and 64 % under McD, so if they did this with Ed, then you raise a good point wrt to a significant investment in Phillips? If Ed gets over 60% of the Snaps next year, I could see him posting double digit sacks. A similar issue with Ngakoue, he is not a LDE, so he’d share time with Hughes. I don’t see this happening, but that’s why I’ve said the DL will be the most interesting decisions for Beane. If they think Johnson is ready to take a bigger role, then they could go with him and Trent at LDE next year and let Shaq walk. Man, I’m talking myself out of my original position...anything is possible, and I’m glad we have Beane and McD making the decisions!

I don't think that was a punt, it was on this FG attempt...

I agree with you, definitely build incentives in. However, what is undeniable is his production compared to Murphy's, and many other 2020 FA DEs that have been talked about. Even his 2018 production is also a little better than Murphy's. Btw, I'm pretty sure his first NFL sack was Brady, so I hope he continues that...

I'm not sure how one cheats on a punt? We're coming, you better block us....

Brown is done in 2021, Morse in 22. Josh and Tremaine are good through 2022 with their 5th year options. The point is, Beane has them set up so that they can make some significant signings now AND retain their own moving forward.

If someone punches like TJ did last week, then they better punch back!

Having Singletary for the rematch is big. Another important cog who didn't play in week 4 is Taron Johnson. Man, this is going to be like Ali-Frazier!

I think this will be the key for a Bills win. Allen will get 1-3 chances and he must finally take advantage.

The fact that Oliver is a rookie makes it possible to sign Phillips. Give him a 4-year deal that sets up to release him in the 4th year when Oliver will either be given his 5th year option or extended. As for Shaq, there is no comparison between his production vs Murphy, but you are right to question that it's a contract year, and it will be interesting to see what Beane does. As for future signings, especially when it comes to Josh and Edmunds, the current big contracts will ( most likely) all be gone--Star, Hughes, Morse, Brown, et al. In general, I think the Bills need about 2 more drafts to get to the point where they are drafting replacements, and grooming them 1-2 years for starting roles. For now, they will have to rely on FAs to fill some key roles until they get there.

Amen. Nice thought @dollars 2 donuts

He's a lot like Star in that respect, they get paid too much money to be "role players." As I've said, it will be interesting to see what Beane/McD think and decide....

You typically have edge rushers like Hughes and Yannick at RDE which is the weak side (no TE) and typically the QB's blindside. The LDE's tend be bigger and better run defenders because that's the side the TE is usually on. Shaq is built like an LDE, but can play both sides. The definitely need to invest in someone who can replace Hughes, whether that's from the draft or FA. Personally, my choice would be to sign Shaq and let Murphy go, with Shaq the starting LDE. He also gives you the ability to back up Hughes. This is probably the most difficult off-season decision for them and will be interesting to see what they do. You're probably right about it being Hughes last year. It will be interesting to see what they decide here....

While he definitely will be available, he's not a strong-side LDE at 6'2" and 246--he plays Jerry's position. I doubt very much they'd commit $$s to a guy who would be splitting time with Hughes.

Wow, comparing Murphy and Shaq, the decision is a no-brainer. Trent: 574 snaps, 3 sacks, 6 QB hits, 7 TFLs, 28 TT Shaq: 435 snaps, 6.5 sacks, 17 QB hits, 12 TFLs, 30 TT It will be interesting to see how this plays out next year. Time to focus on beating the Pats...

If you think his sack numbers are inflated, then focus on QB hits. You'd be hard-pressed to find another FA DE with his level of production. He also has the flexibility to play both end positions, and has. If you pay big money for a FA edge rusher, that person will split time with Hughes, who will be here another 2 years. I can't see them doing this..? Their most likely options: 1. Let Shaq walk: DEs are Murphy, Johnson, Hughes, Love, Draft an edge. Low cost, most likely lower production. 2. Same as #1, but sign an edge. High cost for someone splitting time with Hughes. Production impact? 3. Sign Shaq and draft an edge. High cost, position flexibility, Production the same 4. Sign Shaq, release Murphy, and draft an edge. Medium cost (save about $7 mil releasing Murphy) higher production (Shaq is starting LDE), more position flexibility. Personally, I think #4 is the best option, but I doubt they release Murphy.

His numbers this year show that he's as good if not better than most of the UFA options for 2020, which is what I'm arguing. It remains to be seen if McD thinks he's a fit. While Beane and McD talk about signing your own, Shaq was not their selection, so I think it comes down to their belief on whether or not he truly fits their process? Either way, he'll get a pretty good payday.

With $90 million in cap space next year, they can afford anyone now. I think Phillips is a no-brainer. Shaq is the more controversial one, but I think his numbers stack up well against almost anyone else you could sign as an FA replacement next year, which was my main point. As to future needs, the cap space next year sets them up well. Sign Shaq and Phillips, and a WR, then fill a few gaps with middle range signings and the draft. My guess is that Beane would like to have significant rollover $$ the next several years so he can use it to give large guaranteed sums to the premium contract needs. If they commit say $50 million to signings next year, that would give them $40 million to rollover into 2021, when they have Tre, Milano, Dawkins, and Poyer coming up. Josh and Tremaine come up in 2022, but they also have 5th year options. Hyde, Harry, and Taron J are notable names for 2022, but Hughes, and most likely Starr, will be gone by then, so I really don't think it will be a question of affordability with making the decision on Phillips and Shaq.

Happy Holidays to you too.

Sorry. Mods, please move to an existing thread.

Both of these guys have bought into the process and should be re-signed. Statistically, I think they are the best options as well. jordan Phillips is straightforward: 9.5 sacks on 460 defensive snaps. Compare that to A. DONALD who has 11 sacks on 823 defensive snaps. Hopefully, he'll be willing to take a home town discount. At any rate, signing him keeps their DT rotation in place and continuity is valuable. Shaq is the more interesting case. Many people want the Bills to go after yannick Ngakoue of the Jags. Compare their stats. Ngakoue has 8 sacks, 13 TFLs, and 13 QB hits on 680 defensive snaps; Shaq has 6.5 sacks, 12 TFLs, and 17 QB hits on 435 defensive snaps. There really is no comparison, Shaq is the better player based on production per snap. And, Again, continuity is valuable. The Bills should then draft an edge rusher in one of the first two rounds to groom behind Hughes. It would probably take $16-20 million/ year, but it would lock them in for their next 4-year super bowl run. If D. Johnson continues to develop, then they could also move on from Murphy which saves them $7 mil. Shaq has been more productive anyway, and should be the starting LDE. At any rate, I think this may be the best route for the Bills, and it keeps the D nearly intact.

Yeah, I was thinking about that after posting...then again, that's what "they" told McD....

I think they could weather the loss of Frazier more than Daboll. Would like to see LF get another shot. A long shot, but Maybe the Browns will want someone associated with a culture change?