Kirby Jackson

This started when you said it’s orton and it’s not close. I said it’s Tyrod and it’s not close. You bragged about Orton dragging the offense to 18th in points. Yet Tyrod had them 12th and 10th and it would have been higher if he played all 32 games. It’s okay to be wrong on here. We all are sometimes.

I am on the other side when it comes to Gaines. That Bills secondary was ELITE when they were all on the field this year. I’d like a better back-up than Wright but am more than willing to pay Gaines. If they can generate any sort of pass rush that secondary will look even better.

Again, they were top 10 DVOA in 2015 & 2016 and top 12 scoring in 2015 (with EJ scoring less than the other games) and top 10 in 2016 (with EJ playing 1 game with 1 offensive score). If that is what you are considering failure than I don’t know what to tell you. If you want to talk about this year’s struggles go for it. To complain about offenses that were successful just makes you a hater. That comes as no surprise to anyone here though. That’s become your MO.

Yeah, and it wasn’t like he ever stepped around a guy an made a play. He would tuck the ball when a guy got within 5 yards of him. Drew Bledsoe sucked! He is the only guy that I can think of that Bills fans overrate from the drought. We overrate Freddy some but it is understandable.

3, he lost twice to the Giants and once to the Eagles. He beat the Rams, Eagles, Panthers, Seahawks and Falcons.

Never doubled down at any point. I asked to see it and you showed it. They finished 1 TD & a 2 pt. conversion out of the top 10. That is with EJ leading them to 5 TDs in 2 games (below their average).

That’s all that I needed to see. No reason to have humility and grace when I am right 95% of the time. Also, we try to refrain from personal attacks around here.

Assuming my numbers are right after the first 8 games in a Bills uniform Bledsoe was: 18-22, completed 57.87% of his passes, threw for 191.28 yards per game, 39 TDs, 38 INTs and lost 13 fumbles. He was sacked about a zillion times too and made no plays with his feet to offset it. The guys was TERRIBLE.

I’ve said it before but Bledsoe is such a strange case. Bills fans HATE just about every Bills player since the super bowl years. We remember guys to be way worse than they were. For some reason people look back at Bledsoe and think that he was good. He was next level awful after the 1st 8 games. He may have been the worst QB after those 8 games. I think that they were. You came in and said “wrong” but you don’t actually know if it is wrong. They were 8 total points out of the top 10. Once we figure out the defensive and ST TDs we can determine which one of us is right.

So you said that my claim was wrong but in reality you don’t know. Basically you don’t know that the offense wasn’t top 10 in scoring? I’m pretty sure that they were and remember reading it. I will try to google it when I get out of this high level business meeting.

Really well said John!!

You can add Fournette to that list as well. He carried his team against Pittsburgh. Mark Ingram had another Pro Bowl season. The best RBs go early. They can change a team.

3-2 and Brady is 11-6 vs. Peyton. What was Elway vs. Kelly?

Roethelisberger is a HOF QB. Rivers may be as well. Peyton Manning absolutely is.

You only had to beat 1 or 2 good teams. Now you have to beat a bunch. I’m not changing it to a team comparison. We can’t compare stats because his are inflated for the era (and superior). We can’t factor in winning now either? There is nothing that he doesn’t have on the field.

I’m saying that it was easier to win if your team had 9 HOFers. Do you not agree with that? If you have a great team with 9 HOFers you should win. When there is parity a dynasty is much more difficult to achieve.

I thought about him as an option. Not as “the option” but he’s a young guy with talent. He’s be a much better investment than Peterman. He has upside.

...and if you asked Montana he would say Brady. No one would ever say that they are the best (except maybe LeBron).

Ha ha, you might want to update that meme. It’s a little dated.

Yes, it was easy to keep a dominant team together. You can’t do that anymore. Do you think that the NFL rules are moving towards more teams being able to win a championship or less? I can show you the evidence of balance now vs. then. It is infinitely harder to win in this era! It is mind-numbing that someone would think otherwise. Do you think that the Steelers would have been able to keep 9 HOFers in today’s NFL?!? Of course not!! Do you think you are more or less likely to win with 9 HOFers? I wouldn’t put him in the MJ category either but MJ is my favorite athlete ever. There is definitely some bias there. That’s the debate that they are talking about now though.

We can throw stats out (even though they will help his case) and he is still beyond anyone else. Look, I hate Tom Brady as much as anyone. I despise him. With that being said I’m not going to let my disdain cloud my judgement. He is the best ever. When he is done the gap will be even wider. He’s not chasing QBs anymore he’s chasing MJ and others considered the greatest athlete of all-time.

Thank you for your list. Winning in the FA era is more difficult though. You are constantly turning over your roster. That ‘49ers team was largely the same for a decade. They built a good team and kept them together. Brady doesn’t have that luxury. He has new guys coming in all of the time. Brady didn’t have Jerry Rice either. Elway might be the most physically gifted QB to ever play but he didn’t win a thing until he got a HOF RB. Brady’s RBs are James White, Rex Burkhead and Dion Lewis.

What is the number that we apply to “era inflation?” Brady has thrown for 5,000 more yards and 68 more TDs than Marino (and is still going). If you want to give him the stat king crown with inferior stats, go for it. I would argue that Brees is the stat king. You think that they won a lot because of cheating. I think that the cheating is BS but not why they won. You said that he isn’t the GOAT. You still have named the players that are better. If you do, we can stack their resumes side-by-side and debate it.

The reason that Brady is the GOAT is because he has what no one else does. There are a lot of guys that were great but put anyone’s resume next to Brady’s and it’s not the same. He has the stats and the wins. Okay, so we are not going to count the numbers because they are inflated by the era. We can throw them out and pretend that they don’t count but his numbers would hold up in any era. Marino is the stat king but Brady him Trumped. Montana was considered the great winner, Brady has him trumped. They played with under inflated footballs and spied on a Rams practice. If you think that’s why they’ve went to 8 Super Bowls and won god knows how many division titles, I don’t know what to tell you. I have said that it is impossible to argue otherwise and I am sticking with that. If you want to name the guys better we can debate. Right now, I’m hearing a lot of “he isn’t the best” but no one has tried to make a case that a particular player is better.

You are making my point for me. Elway won for 15 years. He won a lot less than Brady did. If you want stats, Brady has them all. If you want wins, he has that too. It’s really impossible to argue anyone else. I would be curious as to whom you would have ahead of him? We can put them side-by-side and even try to normalize it for the era. Brady winning in the FA era though will be difficult to match. Brady’s receivers in that game yesterday were 2 undrafted free agents. One of them was a lacrosse player in college (also Fitz went to Harvard and Jack Nicklaus is Nick O’Leary’s grandfather).