Kirby Jackson

I had Orton next on my list earlier. He wasn’t here long but I tried to look at just their time in a Bills uniform. He would be 3 if you went just drought era instead of post-Kelly.

Yep, that’s all people choose to remember. Those stats that I just posted INCLUDE that stretch (which was less than 17% of his starts). Earlier I posted just how dreadful he was in the other 40 starts. Bledsoe does not belong in the top 3 or in the conversation. I’m not sure that there is even a debate as to the top 3 (if you allow Flutie to be included in the drought era). It’s Flutie, Fitz and Tyrod in whichever order.

Best case: Sweep the division and finish 15-2 Worst case: Lose 2 divisional games and finish 11-6 (still win the division)

That is not the best QB play of the drought era. Why do so many people remember Bledsoe as “good?” 23-25 59.1% completion 214.3 total ypg (passing and rushing) 59 total TDs 58 turnovers 140 sacks Here is Tyrod for comparison (counting the game Rex lined him up a WR for the 1st play): 23-20 62.6% completion 238 total yards per game 65 total TDs 21 turnovers 124 sacks Someone please tell me what it is that Bledsoe did better? Please don’t say “eye test” either because I’ll challenge it with “memory test.” He won less, was less efficient, scored less, turned it over WAY more and put up less yards. He’s literally worse across the board. I used Taylor because they have roughly the same amount of starts.

Again, that factors in the whole year and he had elite receivers. The 2nd half of the year, he accounted for 9 TDs and 14 turnovers!! That’s TERRIBLE. Bledsoe is remembered so fondly (and wrongly) by Bills fans because of an 8 game stretch. When you remove those 8 games he was atrocious.

* the first 8 games of Bledsoe’s first season. After those 8 games he was 3-5, 9 total TDs, 14 turnovers and 24 sacks. He was not great his first year. He played a good 8 games.

I’ll take a crack at ranking them: Doug Flutie Tyrod Taylor Ryan Fitzpatrick Kyle Orton Rob Johnson Drew Bledsoe JP Losman Trent Edwards EJ Manuel Kelly Holcomb Thad Lewis Alex Van Pelt Matt Cassel Todd Collins Jeff Tuel Nathaniel Peterman

Flutie, Tyrod and Fitz in whatever order you want. There isn’t anyone else in the conversation (Orton is next). Please, please, please do not say Bledsoe. I posted his stats in that Tyrod thread. If you like 57% completion, more turnovers than TDs, 110 sacks in 40 games and a losing record, he’s your man. Don’t let the 8 game stretch fool you. If you do that, count that Trent Edwards 5 game stretch. Bledsoe was so bad but for some reason people remember it differently. No one has been given the benefit of the doubt more than him. He stinks.

I’m 100% with you here Scott. Bledsoe is THE most overrated player that the Bills have ever had. He wasn’t even okay. He played 8 good games and then was a nightmare. More turnovers than TDs, 110 sacks in 40 games, 57% completion and an 18-22 record with that talent. Just disgusting

If you don’t think that Tyrod was good, which clearly you don’t, there are things that you can point to. Pointing to a game where the defense gave up 300 yards on the ground and 6 rushing TDs ain’t it!! They ran on 24 consecutive plays!!!! That’s like blaming Josh for the KC loss. Totally misguided. It’s amazing how people remember Bledsoe’s Bills career. The guy played with a lot of talent around him. After those first 8 games Bledsoe’s record was 18-22. He completed 702-1,213 for a 57.9% completion percentage. He threw 39 TDs and 38 INTs. Bledsoe was sacked 110 times in 40 games!!! He also lost 19 fumbles in those same 40 games!! He had 4 rushing TDs in that window. So to recap he had 43 total TDs, 57 turnovers and was sacked 110 times!!!! He was so much worse than people seem to remember. He played 8 good games with a loaded roster. Bledsoe belongs in the group with EJ, Losman and Edwards.

Tyrod was way better than he got credit for around here. He was definitely better than Bledsoe. If you take out Bledsoe’s first 8 games in Buffalo he is no better than Losman, EJ, Edwards. He was AWFUL. Fitz had higher highs and lower lows. I think that Tyrod was more effective but less impactful. You could pick either of those 2. I think, even though it was a brief stay, Tyrod probably best compares to Orton. He gave his team a chance to win. He was a high end game manager. In terms of current QBs, Tyrod would be like 2022 Matt Ryan. He won’t elevate you or hurt you.

So you aren’t attracted to Boyst in a dress?

I think that you might find those 2 to be more reliable (maybe). In terms of “scary” though Allen is capable of doing things that neither of them are. They aren’t capable of doing anything that he isn’t. They just have less games like Atlanta or Jacksonville. Allen, when he’s clicking, is the scariest.

So, bye week and 2 games vs. the Jets?

Lol, that video is how I always felt his teammates viewed him. Now it’s like, “huh, maybe I was wrong about this dude?” First of all, women throw themselves at us too. Don’t you remember Houston?!?

I’m not being sarcastic (but am being a little funny). I don’t want my QB to be a nice, quiet, polite young man. I want a guy with an edge. Coming from BYU that isn’t something that you often see. I want guys to follow the QB. Judging by social media (not the best judge) he’s gained universal “respect” for this. This was absolutely “out of character” for how we viewed him. It takes an “edge” to do something like this. The jokes are hilarious. That’s just a part though. It takes a ton of confidence to persue your mom’s best friend. That guy CLEARLY believes that he’s that guy. This might convince others of that. This is just a small anecetodal story. There was a guy here (I barely knew him), roughly my age, that had a relationship with a smoking hot teacher when he was 18. Word spread like wildfire and everyone looked up to him. It came up at a lunch 2 weeks ago as someone was telling the story. It was almost 25 years ago.

I want one of those old sinks to pee in

I have a new level of respect for Zach Wilson. He does have a little dawg in him. I want my QB to be an alpha. Wilson is out here making alpha moves.

I equate it to when the Broncos hired Vic Fangio. There weren’t any Broncos fans that were like, “yes, we got Vic Fangio!!! Watch out world!!”

I think that’s fair. The flip side is that teams with stud QBs aren’t usually the ones replacing their HC. It’s a little “chicken and egg.” Maybe a situation like the Chargers, if they underachieve would be possible? The point remains though, if there are 6 or 7 jobs he’s probably only a realistic candidate for 1 or 2. Someone like Daboll would be considered in pretty much every situation.

I think that it’s tough to inspire a fan base with the hiring of a 63 year-old DC. I hate to say it like that because Frazier has earned the opportunity. Typically bad teams are looking for “who’s next.” They want the next McVay. They continue to hire, young, creative, offensive minds. The market is narrow for Leslie Frazier. He needs a situation like Jacksonville that was a total disaster and needs an adult in the room to stabilize. I suppose if the Browns blow up this year he might be an option? I guess that Lovie Smith was an exception to this but those situations are few and far between. I just don’t see, for example, the Jets turning that group over to LF if things don’t work out here. It will be “the next young offensive mind.”

Lol, my bad on the 2/3 🤦🏻‍♂️. In terms of the 1st point, Phillips they get credit for. They developed a 3rd rounder that was in demand and got a substantial 2nd deal. I’d even say the same with McCloud to a lesser degree. They had to make tough roster decisions because they have had a ton of talent for the last handful of years. However, they DID identify players that have outperformed their draft slots. They just can’t keep them all. I’m a little less forgiving on Teller. They didn’t see just how good he was. They thought of him as a decent option on the OL. He was a star. He isn’t now?

PFF has Johnson as the 4th best slot corner in the NFL. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-slot-cornerback-rankings-tiers-2022 There are 32 teams. That’s well beyond “decent.” The 4th best QB in the league is Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, Allen, Herbert or Burrow depending on who you ask. No one is describing them as “decent.” Siran Neal played 153 defensive snaps (14.2%) and 287 ST snaps (66.1%). That amounts to 26 snaps a game, not 2 or 3. That’s solid for a 5th round pick that just got a second contract. Allen is obviously Allen. McCloud is still kicking around which is good for a 6th. 73% of 6th rounders don’t make it to year 6. He just signed a 2 year deal that will take him through year 6. Obviously, that’s success. Teller is an all-pro but I’m okay with them not getting credit there. That line had holes and the identified other guys to try to plug them. Phillips signed a nice FA deal and would be considered very good value for where he was selected. Edmunds is a quality LB but probably no better than an average mid 1st selection. No need to use hyperbole (like Neal at 2 to 3 snaps a game) to downplay the success of the draft. Obviously Allen is the reason that it is considered great. The Bills players have almost all exceeded to success rate of those picked in similar positions. Part of it was a function of opportunity but more of it was a function of ability.

I love the topic!! There are a zillion options. Stevie Johnson Josh Allen Megan Fox