Kirby Jackson

Hermosa Beach is the party tonight. Every place is full of Bills fans. We will be represented but not like Nashville or some other games.

Does anyone have an extra tailgate ticket? It’s sold out and I forgot to text my buddy to get one. Now our whole group has them except me. If anyone has an extra please PM me. I’d appreciate it.

Nice topic Joe!!! - Allen’s 37 passing TDs - Allen’s 284 YPG (similar to your passing yards stat) - Bass longest FG in franchise history (don’t know the number but it is in jeopardy) - Bass 141 points in a season - MAYBE Bill Brooks 11 TD receptions is in jeopardy

That’s why I think he will play out the year with a contender instead of sitting out the year as some have suggested. He needs to prove that he’s healthy if he wants someone to cut the big check next year. It’ll be interesting. He was going to be the Super Bowl MVP. Don’t read into that fake nonsense. NO TEAM is in position to turn their noses to OBJ. The defending Super Bowl Champs have left his locker open in an attempt to recruit him back. Don’t overthink it. It isn’t complicated. The only people buying into that media-generated narrative are simpletons. The Bills will add him in 1 second if he is healthy and the price is right. That holds true for every contender in the league. KC is a (dangerous) sleeper IMO if he’s ready to go.

There are some interesting thoughts in this thread (both that I agree and disagree with). OBJ can still dominate. He was going to be the Super Bowl MVP and remind everyone of how good he can be. Does he take a short-term deal with a contender (ie Bills or Rams) to try to compete for a Super Bowl? Is that too risky? That’s an interesting thought. My guess is that he does sign with one of those teams (or Tampa or Baltimore, etc). Next offseason he will try to get one last contract. He absolutely not a bottom of the depth chart guy. He can still dominate. OBJ is a guy that will be getting 8-10 targets a game. Cleveland was a disaster. He was back to being good when he got to the Rams. He caught 25 balls in 3.5 playoff games. OBJ is a winner. He will be an important piece of whichever team he goes to this year. It’ll be interesting to see, if he signs a decent deal this off-season, with a bad team. Will he be motivated to play for the Pats/Jets/Lions/Falcons/etc?

I think that someone quantified it well earlier. They used the “5 tool” example for a baseball player. RAS is a big part of it. It’s the ability to do things that others cannot physically do. It does not mean that you do it regularly. For example, Josh Allen, can do certain things that very few QBs ever could do. He is not one of the best QBs ever (at least at this point). The Thurman example is a good one. There aren’t many things that he did that most other NFL backs can’t do. He did them more consistently. That’s why he’s in the HOF. OJ, Allen, Bruce and a few others COULD make certain plays that very few other NFL players are capable of making.

Thurman is one of my favorite Bills ever; he was great. I’m shocked to see so many people listing him among “the most talented players in franchise history.” He was a 2nd round pick for a reason. He wasn’t fast. He wasn’t big. He was really smart and versatile. He would be on the short list of people that “did more with less” than anyone else. I don’t know how accurate this is but he was a “meh” athlete. His 40 time is faster than I would have thought but he didn’t play at that speed. https://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=26190

Even if OJ had TERRIBLE production, he would still be a viable answer to the question. The question isn’t about resumè it is about talent. I half-jokingly put a picture of Reggie Bush up there earlier. I have more rushing yards in a Bills uniform than Reggie Bush. He is one of the most physically gifted players to ever play for this, or any, franchise. He never lived up to his ceiling but the talent was always there.

That’s totally fair. Appreciate the thoughtful response!!

I played golf with Butch Byrd in the Bills alumni golf tournament in July (humble brag). He’s a SUPER nice guy. His perspective on certain people was interesting (but not surprising). He left us with his number to connect before the game in LA this week. He will be out there with family.

Kelly was incredibly tough. Is he tougher than Allen? Kelly had a big arm. Allen might have the biggest arm ever. There is literally nothing that Kelly could do that Allen can’t. There are lots of things that Allen can do that Kelly couldn’t. Talent-wise it isn’t a conversation. I wouldn’t have Kelly in the top 10 most talented Bills ever. He might not be in the top 20. Again, talent and accomplishment aren’t interchangeable.

Ben Volin LOVES to troll Pats fans. He’s pretty honest. He hypes the Bills, a lot, to get under their skin. His intent was to get a bunch of Massholes to tell him to “eff off.” He got his wish…

Are you answering most impactful or most talented? If it’s most “talented,” what, PHYSICALLY, does Kelly do better than Allen? If the answer is, nothing (which it might be) this isn’t much of a debate. Kelly’s talent isn’t in the same stratosphere as Allen’s.

Lol, he’s the garbage can emoji. He’s 1-5 vs. OSU. He will be 1-6 after the game this year. They’re better. They just aren’t winning on the road in Columbus. That’s the next toughest game for the Buckeyes. At Penn State is usually tough but they look like 🗑. OSU, Alabama and UGA have playoff spots pretty much locked up barring a disaster. There is 1 spot left 😂😂, maybe that goes to Clemson. I suppose Alabama OR UGA could drop a conference game and miss the playoffs. I don’t see it.

I’m not at all. They were without their best player. They were without another freak on the outside. They played poorly. ND played the absolute BEST game they could have played. OSU won by double digits. At the end of the year, they’ll hold a win against a top 10 team that’ll be something like 10-2. That was, arguably, the hardest game on the schedule. TTUN looked decent but they aren’t winning in the Shoe after winning last year. In the past, the Bucks have lost the games against good opponents when they played poorly (like Oregon last year). The defense is WAY ahead of where they’ve been. The offense will be spectacular. It started clicking late and they’ll get healthier. Couldn’t be less concerned…

Going to his left too…

He gave his team a chance to win. ND had a great gameplan. They were simply outgunned. Obviously that Buckeye offense isn’t as scary without JSN & JF. Still Freeman had his team ready to compete.

18:1 👀

There are lots of college QBs that could have accomplished what he did. LOTS and if you take all of the years of LOTS of guys you may reach 1,000. Nothing he showed, said capable backup. He wasn’t. They WANTED him to be that. They were wrong. He was a waste of a pick. He was a waste of resources. He’s a nice guy. All of that is true. I believe that. I believe every QB in the USFL, XFL, CFL, etc… could have done what he’s done. He’s the worst ever. How many guys that didn’t get a chance could have been that bad? He didn’t “earn” the right. He was “given” the opportunity. Don’t confuse those 2. Is it crazy to think that Joe Licata from UB could have done what Nate did? That’s the kind of guy that I’m talking about. Just throw a dart at a random college QB in the last decade and they could have been better. That doesn’t mean that they would have ever been good. It doesn’t mean that they all deserved NFL spots. It just means that they could have been better than Nate. That’s the point. He got the opportunity. They didn’t.

He shouldn’t have been drafted. He WASN’T good enough for that but he was drafted. If you went back and redrafted that year there’s NO chance that we would be selected. That’s what we call a mistake. He’s not the 1st or last guy in that scenario. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of guys that could have accomplished more than him if given the opportunity instead. He’s made $4.8M and they haven’t. That doesn’t mean that he was EVER better. It means people THOUGHT that he was so they gave him an opportunity to prove it. He failed, epically. There is nothing but regret from everyone that gave him that opportunity. Don’t get that confused. He is good enough to coach. That’s what he is now. He’s a de facto “assistant QB coach.” If Fields ever goes down the Bears will bring in someone else to backup Siemian. Nate will continue to help everyone grasp the offense. The plan isn’t to “play in an emergency.” He will never play again (in a meaningful game).

I couldn’t agree more. At their best they are decent game managers imo. Their ceiling is what we had with Tyrod. They can NEVER overtake the Bills in the division with that “upside.” Miami has a bunch of talent. Maybe Tua can get them to the playoffs but they’ll never be a title threat. They’re like those Dalton-led Bengals teams. The Pats are a disaster. They have no talent around a game manager. They spent all of that money and were wrong.

He wouldn’t be on my short list but have a shot at the “most talented 53.” He was an elite deep threat with great hands. Moulds and TO were more physically imposing.