Buftex

I guess we have all noticed the loft vs zip thing...but did anyone else notice (IIRC) the first drive or two of the second half against the Bucs? He came out, it seemed, consciously "zipping" the ball, and completed some nice passes in the middle of the field in tight coverage...but then he tried to "zip" one in the center of the field, and the receiver (can't remember who it was now) was just a little ahead of the pass, and it got picked off. It seemed obvious to me, somebody was in his ear about making more decisive throws. I know, everyone is down on this kid right now, and who knows, maybe you are all right..but by my count, EJ has now played approx 38.5 qrtrs of NFL football...he has been very, very good in about 6 of them, decent in about 18 of them, and not so hot in about 14 of them. It seems like people are drawing lines in the sand about him pretty quick. If we were being honest with ourselves, I think most of us knew it was going to be an up and down year for him...but now, even when he plays pretty well, it isn't good enough for some...let him grow...

If you look at the league objectively, teams, both the "good" and "bad" teams have erratic performances all year. How many times do we see an "elite" team like, say, the Broncos or Saints, win a huge, prime-time "gut check" game and everybody declares them the best team in their conference...then, quietly, they struggle, sometimes even lose, guietly, to an inferior opponant the next week? Maybe I am kidding myself, but as disappointing as this season may have turned out the way we wanted (I was not one of those thinking this would be a playoff team..they will finish in the 5-6 win total, which is about what I expected), but I am still fairly encouraged by the play of our young guys. Whether EJ Manuel turns out to be the fracnchise QB the Bills were expecting, or not (I am not giving up on him yet...only 9.5 games under his belt, some bad play and some good play), I still think this will go down as one of the better rookie classes in Bills modern history....certainly in this century. There is still a newness to things, and I am hopeful that Whaley is going to be a great GM...it remains to be seen, but I like what I have seen so far.

I hate to say it, but sports talk radio normally breaks down when they start taking callers. Most just repeat the same thing that somebody else just said, it is just too repetitive...so yeah, I agree, post game is pretty much a waste of time. Like Schoop & Bulldog or not, I think it is pretty much the same everywhere...those drunk a-holes you just sat next to at the game, are now calling to espouse their silliness on the radio...I like John Murphys show on GR, and normally listen to it archived on BuffaloBills.com. Where I live, smack dab in the middle of Texas, I have my choice of listening to Texans or Cowboys post-game shows, should I want. They are both every bit as bad as the Bills post-game. When I listen, I just skip the caller segments altogether. I will listen to the post-game show for about 20 minutes, just to gauge the temperature of Bils fans..I am rarely surprised, or frankly, interested in any of the points they are making. I am not a Schoop & Bullldog hater, I think they are okay, at times...but I do agree, I am not overly impressed, all the way around, with GR's Bills coverage. It is not so much that there isn't enough of it (there is plenty), just nobody that works at the station, except for perhaps, Joe B and Sal really bring anything to the table. I just think they are all kind of dull. The games on the radio are just lacking something...I don't hate any of them, I think Murphy is okay, but not particularly exciting to listen to as a play by play guy. Luckily, for me, I rarely have to rely on radio broadcasts for my coverage.

Very true. I know people pipe-dream about a "downtown stadium" for the Bills, and it makes me wonder if they realize how much that would change the game-day experience of going to a Bills game for everyone. Not saying it would be bad, just very different. I have been to a handful of games at Reliant Stadium, for instance, in Houston. It is a beautiful stadium, great place to watch the game, but there is really no "game-day" vibe outside the stadium. Defintely more family friendly, but a much more placid experience. I wouldn't give up my game-day memories at Rich Stadium for anything... but looking back, I also realize, me, my brother, and friends, were probably lucky that more things didn't go wrong along the way...

In the end, that is what got TD fired...it wasn't for the product on the field.

I think Rico and I have been banging that drum for a while too. That said, while it is early, I like Whaley. I think, possibly, because of his age, he is the first GM we have had since TD that kind of understands how the current league works. Marv, god-love him was not a real GM, nor was Brandon...and Buddy was more a scout than an administrator. I just don't know that any of these guys were really "connected". Donohoe, as was stated early, was pretty highly regarded around the league when he came to Buffalo... while not every move was genious (hiring Gregg Williams was not a good one- I happen to think Mularkey was alright), he is hardly the first NFL GM who was unable to land a "franchise QB". What I liked about TD, for the most part, he was willing to cut his losses, he made a lot of moves, but wasn't afraid to pull the plug on something that wasn't working.

Jeez...its' not even the "off-season" yet....

TD had his flaws, but complacency wasn't one of them...I think the Bills playoff drought would have ended years ago, had he been kept on. Hindsight is always 20/20... a lot of teams passed on Aaron Rodgers.

That is almost another issue..the Bills have been victims (yeah, I will use that dirty word) of numerous very questionable calls at key times in at least 2 or 3 games..huge calls...not saying they weren't necessarily legit calls, but things that could have easily gone uncalled, and have been, prior... don't want to use that as an excuse, but how do you tell DBs (especially) who have made great plays to "stop" because they "might" misconstrue your efforts as illegal play.

Sometimes you annoy me...but sometimes you make me laugh my ass off!

I have a hunch there will be some changes on the coaching staff, along with the starting players. Unless these guys (Whaley, Marrone) are completely full of ****, they have promised the "status quo" is not going to be tolerated. If coaches are in over their heads, they have to be let go too.

Gung...I agree, the defense has major issues...but they really have been the reason, for all their warts, that the Bills were fairly competitive for most games this season. I would say special teams are the worst unit...outside of Carpenter, they have been awful all season, except "pre". The offense has been unable to make plays, more often than not, when they needed them most. Like I said, the defense has some major problems (still), but they have been the brightest spot of this season for me...which, I suppose isn't saying a whole lot. If nothing else, they have made (most) games, at least, entertaining.

Cute blonde chick, here in Austin, daughter of a prominent CA politician, working at the Texas Stare Capital ran over a woman taking her trash to the curb in the wee hours...she was loaded, coming home from a club. The woman's body was found in the neighbors bushes. Hit and run... a witness, and a busted part of the car at the scene, were traced pretty quickly. The girl got 6 months in jail, six months probation and a $10,000 fine. Oh yeah, and her daddy has a long history of dui's as well...watching her sob when she was "harshly sentenced" was revolting...

Anyone remember Todd Collins?

Leelee Phoenix, like many others here, will only be happy to see these guys fail at this point.

Happy Birthday DC Tom... don't let all the "intelligent and erudite" stuff go to your head...they don't mean it!

While I agree with OP's sentiment, he should be reminded that E.J. Manuel did not "miss the entire pre-season". The way I look at it, let the kid play these last three weeks. He had a rough day on Sunday, as did the entire team. Don't forget, he played a great game against a good Jets defense, and made positive plays that helped to beat quality opponents in Baltimore and Carolina. He was in the midst of a good game against Cleavland before missing 4 games..he has had series of stops and starts. I agree, he has some improvement to make, but I also don't think he is as hopelessly horrible as this board, in general, wants to paint him. Most of us knew what we were in for this season with a first round QB pick...we were excited for it...bring it on we said....so here it is, let it happen, see where it goes.

Not saying this will happen, but just suppose that Manuel plays three strong games the rest of the way..say, something comperable to what he did against the Jets a few weeks ago...this conversation will have never happened. The damn Buffalo Bills have turned us into a bi-polar "Bills-nation"

I have no argument with anything you are saying, but this part kind of got my attention...there was this assumption early in the season, that the Bills had an "easy" schedule the second half of the season...people here (not necessarily you) were counting games like Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, Jags as "easy W's"...when you are a 3-6 team, coming off a 6-10 season, no game is an easy win. I am in the minority (this week it appears) in being slightly optimistic, still, about the Bills near future...I don't think the Bills are as bad as they showed yesterday... teams like the Bucs and Jags that got off to miserable starts have had more than half a season to wallow in their failed season...they are starting to play better as the season wares on...it is an excuse, and not necessarily a good one, but the Bills, I believe, were truly shaken up by that loss last week...I think them getting waxed, no matter who they were playing, was fairly predictable...they are a young (and I do believe improving incrementally) team that has no track record of how to handle success, only failure...they could sense that they are close to turning that corner, but it isn't quite there yet...so there was a big let-down after that soul crushing defeat last week in Toronto. Good teams like Denver and New Enland can handle a heartbreaking loss, because they have won so much, it is their natural tendancy..they have been in more big games than anyone else, they can pull themselves off the mat quicker than a team like Buffalo or Cleveland. It sucks, but I truly believe that is the way it is...beating a good team like KC or Cincinnati would have really meant a lot I think..to be in those games, competing, was important. Beating Baltimore, Carolina was great...Miami isn't as bad as we wish they were...and our maligned QB can take some solace that he played a key part in all three of the teams wins this year...he played, by far, his most complete game against a pretty decent defense in the Jets...these are small steps, they have to build on them. I fully expect a better effort next week, and, a very inspired effort against Miami...but I just don't know if they are up to the task of beating New England on the road, no matter how insignificant the game may be to the Pats. I fully expect the franchise to make changes in the offseason, to correct things that are not working...Hackett may go, Stevie, who knows...disappointing season to be sure, but there are some things to feel good about. Even if you think Manuel is a bust, they still had a pretty nice draft...they made some pretty shrewd FA moves...I just don't think they will be complacent. So, I am still quietly optimistic that as bad as things still look at times, there are some foundational changes going on that will be good for the franchise in the not so far off future. Forgive my ignorance...who is "Boner"? Boner Marrone?

He may be an upgrade, however slight...but did you see Schaub play in 2013? Two thousand and thirteen? Bringing Matt Schab in to start over Manuel, in 2014 would only insure that Manuel doesn't make any progress, and may give a us a QB who we can waste more time on, thinking he is going to put up the numbers he did 2 years ago on a team with far more depth and talent... perhaps you are right, nobody thinks Manuel can beat them...but he has three wins over decent defenses this year, and played a key role in all of those wins. He didn't play in 4 games, so not every loss is on him. I will be the first to agree, Manuels' accuracy has to improve. I keep seeing people hear saying that his accuracy "won't" or "can't" improve, as if they know that to be fact. Other QB's have become more accurate with time.

Was at that game too...greatest Bills season ever, for me!

"Milk & Honey", and if I recall, quite a bit of "Double Fantasy" were recorded with Cheap Trick. They actually did some more rocking versions of some of the songs from those albums that were never officially released...

The results may suck, as usual, but I can honestly say, all in all, I have enjoyed this season more than any season in maybe the last 10 years. It is easy, and understandable, to get disgusted (I was disgusted with yesterdays game as much as anyone) but I still feel like, if nothing else, we are heading into a new era of Bills football, and I am willing to give new regime a little more time...that is all we have at this point. I have seen indications that the new regime is not necessarily one to stand pat and hope everything gets better, as we have seen in the past. I may be completely misguided in my optimism (I have not been accused of being a polly-ana Bills fan in about 10 years or so...Dick Jauron killed that for me), but I stil feel, despite the miderable loss yesterday, this team is starting to get some things right. We have seen them play well, and even beat, a few decent teams this year...is that a better indicator of where they are, or is losing to a lowly team like the Bucs more accurate?

I happend to feel pretty certain the Bills were going to lose, and lose badly, before yesterdays game. All the signs were there...the Bills have done this on and off, for years...play noblely, stub their toes late in the season, and start to get trashed by other teams once the reality of the season kicks in..and then finish up a little stronger, just enough to make us think they might finally be turing it around. I am not really sure it has everything to do with coaching. We have seen "good teams" with "good coaches" suffer from these kind of losses before too...the hangover loss. The Bills are an improving team, with a long, long way to go still. For about 9 of the 13 games this season, each game could have gone their way with a break or two along the way...they beat some decent teams this year...they were "game" more weeks than not...but last week, they had a tough loss, and the realization that they, again, are not making the playoffs (most fans knew this weeks ago, but players have a different perspective) is bound to have a ripple effect. Here is where the "culture of losing" seeps in. I am ready to give up on some of the players, perhaps, because some have been through this before, many times, and the result is the same. Lets' see how Marrone reacts before saying this is "piss poor coaching"...I think there are a handful of the "franchise players" that will not be wearing Bills uniforms next year. Not necessarily that they are bad players, but all they know is losing...so that is what they do. I guranatee you, they will put up a great effort, maybe even win, the Dolphins game in Buffalo.

He might be (what did you see this year that leads you to believe that, just curious), but keep in mind, if he came to Buffalo, he would be dealing with a much different (less talented?) team than the one he tanked with this year in Houston. I think most teams, especially ones that find themselves with needing to draft a QB in the first round, have a lot of other issues as well...they likely have the realistic expectations (the team, not the fans) that he isn't going to play as well as an experienced bet, right out of the chute. I agree with you on one thing, if the Bills trade/sign Schaub, and he is the starter for "two or three years", than Manuel will not be playing, and not getting any better.