mjt328

Here are a couple possible reasons: 1) More talented teams (like the Patriots) come into the game taking us lightly. We get up by a few points. By the time the 2nd-3rd quarter hit, they start taking us seriously and we just can't hang anymore. 2) Fitzpatrick is horribly inconsistent. He's good for a couple nice throws every week. He's also sure to throw quite a few bad ones. Games like yesterday, he jam-packed all his good-accurate throws into the first three drives. The rest of the game, he looked like crap. 3) Our coaches only have a few tricks up their sleeves. Other teams adjust to what we are doing, and we can't respond.

I don't think letting Donte Whitner go was a mistake. George Wilson was a better player and deserved to start. I don't think getting voted to the Pro Bowl changes that. But at the same time, I think it's interesting to see all these ex-Bills finding success elsewhere. Donte Whitner makes the Pro Bowl for San Francisco Aaron Maybin is racking up sacks for the Jets Marshawn Lynch has over 1,000 yards rushing and 12 touchdowns for Seattle Jason Peters is having an incredible year for Philadelphia Poz has continued to play well in Jacksonville A lot of people have said that coaching is a huge problem in Buffalo. Failing to maximize talent is a strong example of that.

In some ways, yes. In other ways, no. Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey have been a mixed bag. There are some things they have done right. There are a lot of mistakes they have made. The 2012 offseason will be key. Can they admit and correct their mistakes? Or will they make new ones? For example: >> Hiring George Edwards as defensive coordinator was a horrible mistake. Will he be fired, or will Nix/Gailey stick with him? If he is canned, who will be his replacement? >> Switching to the 3-4/Hybrid was stupid. The Bills best players (Kyle Williams, Marcell Dareus) are best suited for the 4-3. Player talent should dictate the system - not the other way around. Do the Bills maximize their defensive talent, or do they keep trying to play people out of position? >> The 2010 draft looks like it will be a complete bust. There is a chance that we don't get a single long-term starter from that group. The 2011 draft was much better. Dareus should be a great one. Williams and Sheppherd should be good starters. Hairston and Searcy could start and should be good depth. Which one will 2012 look like? >> This team has a tendancy to create holes instead of filling them. Will they re-sign Steve Johnson? Or will he be the latest veteran groomed and dumped by the Bills front office.

I sadly agree. I'm one that REALLY wanted us to draft a quarterback. But without Matt Barkley (and there is still a chance that Robert Griffin III and Landry Jones decide to stay in school), the quality of prospects goes down significantly. We will probably have a shot at Landry Jones. He has lots of physical talent, but will be a real project for someone. Very high bust potential.

Exactly. What I gather from the thread originator's (corey g) argument, he is worried that we will "ruin" a potential franchise quarterback by bringing him to a bad team. I don't buy this and never have. If a quarterback is good enough, he will raise the level of the players around him. Not the other way around. David Carr is the most common example that people bring up when they argue against throwing a quarterback into the fire immediately. They say that he got sacked so much that he became shell-shocked and never recovered. Personally, I just don't think that Carr was very good - and I think he was going to be a disappointment no matter what situation he was brought into. He's never been more than a decent NFL backup. All the "experts" that touted him as great are just looking for excuses to why they were wrong.

Our first priority should be quarterback. But if the top 3-4 (Luck, Barkley, Griffin, Jones) are gone, I have no problem with going for the top offensive tackle.

Here's more proof to my point. Let's take some of the top guys at each position. I've bolded the players with Super Bowl titles. Top Quarterbacks Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Philip Rivers, Eli Manning With exception of Rivers, every single one of these guys has won at least one Super Bowl. Most have their teams in the playoffs on an almost yearly basis. Top Running Backs Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, Ray Rice, Arian Foster, Maurice Jones-Drew, Darren McFadden, Jamaal Charles, Frank Gore, Steven Jackson, LeSean McCoy, Fred Jackson Even when I look at more than TEN!!!! of the top running backs, I can't find even one Super Bowl title. Most of the guys on this list have never even PLAYED in a playoff game, much less sniffed a championship. What exactly has having Peterson done for Minnesota? Top Wide Receivers Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Brandon Marshall, Hakeem Nicks, Wes Welker, Roddy White, Miles Austin, Greg Jennings, Vincent Jackson, Reggie Wayne I had to really stretch the list to find some guys with rings (Jennings, Wayne). Most of the top guys have never gotten close. The Texans are going to their first playoff game this year, and that was with Johnson sidelined most of the season. Calvin Johnson has never even been to the playoffs. Even the Patriots lost their only appearance since signing Welker. Top Offensive Linemen: Tackles: Jake Long, Joe Thomas, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Jordan Gross, Ryan Clady Guards/Centers: Logan Mankins, Nick Mangold, Jahri Evans, Carl Nicks, Ryan Kalil, Eric Wood, Kris Dielman, Chris Snee I'm as big a supporter of focusing on the line as anyone, but how many titles have Jake Long or Joe Thomas brought to Miami and Cleveland? How about playoff appearances? You can have a great blindside protector, but it means nothing if you don't have a good quarterback to protect. Even when you factor in the great lines of New England and New Orleans, this list is pretty bare of championships. Defensive Linemen Ends: Dwight Freeney, Julius Peppers, Jared Allen, Justin Tuck, Mario Williams, Trent Cole, John Abraham, Darnell Dockett, Osi Umenyura, Justin Smith Tackles: Jay Ratliff, Haloti Ngata, Casey Hampton, Vince Wilfork, Richard Seymour, Kevin Williams, Ndamukong Suh, Kyle Williams They say that it all comes down to the big guys up front. But I listed almost 20 of the games top defensive linemen, and only five have managed Super Bowl wins. Linebackers Patrick Willis, James Harrison, Brian Urlacher, Ray Lewis, Demarcus Ware, Clay Matthews, Brian Orakpo, Lamar Woodley, Jerod Mayo, Tamba Hali, Jon Beason, Terrell Suggs The best overall linebacker in football (Willis) will see his first playoff game this year. The best pass rusher (Ware) of the group has only been there a couple times. We've got a couple Steelers (Harrison, Woodley), Lewis and Matthews with titles, but that is it. Defensive Backs: Cornerbacks: Darrelle Revis, Nmandi Asomugha, Charles Woodson, Champ Bailey, Asante Samuel, Deangelo Hall Safeties: Troy Polamalu, Ed Reed, Adrian Wilson, Eric Berry Asomugha, considered by many to be the best shutdown corner in football, has never been to the playoffs.

No team is going to win the championship completely on the back of one player. There is no doubt about that. And there is no doubt in my mind that even if the Bills draft a future Hall of Fame quarterback, they still need massive upgrades all over the team to become a legitimate contender. But history has proven time and time again, that championship teams demand greatness at the quarterback position. What does it tell you when 3 out of every 4 Super Bowl winning quarterbacks is in the NFL Hall of Fame (or will be someday)? It tells me that when it comes to quarterback - good usually isn't good enough. At a position that demands GREATNESS...the Bills settle for mediocrity. We can keep building the team everywhere else - adding linemen and receivers and defensive backs and linebackers - which is great... But until we get a GREAT player under center, the odds of us ever building a championship team are very very slim. Anyone that says otherwise is paying attention to the very few exceptions (Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien) rather than the overwhleming majority of the time.

I don't think anyone believes that drafting a QB will immediately solve all of our problems. OF COURSE, there will have to be a very good team constructed around that person to become a legitimate playoff/Super Bowl contender. Even the best quarterbacks of all time needed help: Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Joe Montana, etc., etc. But here are the facts. YOU NEED A GOOD OR GREAT QUARTERBACK TO WIN CONSISTENTLY IN THE NFL. Take a look at the Super Bowl winning quarterbacks through history: Bart Starr (2), Joe Namath, Len Dawson, Johnny Unitas, Roger Staubach (2), Bob Griese (2), Terry Bradshaw (4), Ken Stabler, Jim Plunkett (2), Joe Montana (4), Joe Thiesmann, Jim McMahon, Phil Simms, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, Troy Aikman (3), Steve Young, Brett Favre, John Elway (2), Kurt Warner, Trent Dilfer, Tom Brady (3), Brad Johnson, Ben Roethlisberger (2), Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers Through 45 Super Bowls, a whopping 23 of them (51 percent) have been won by a current Hall of Fame quarterback. When you throw in future Hall of Famers like Favre, Warner, Brady and Manning, that number jumps to 29 (64 percent). And when you consider that Roethlisberger, Brees and Rodgers are definite possibilities, that number goes up to 33 (73 percent). So how about the other 12 Super Bowls that were not won by Hall of Famers? For starters, Plunkett is the ONLY guy on the list that won it more than once. And people have been arguing for years that Plunkett and Stabler both belong in the Hall of Fame. Even if they don't deserve that great honor, both were very good quarterbacks for their era. So were Thiesmann and Simms (both were two time Pro Bowlers during their careers). And Eli Manning is one of today's top quarterbacks. In my estimation, that only leaves SIX quarterbacks in 45 years that have won a Super Bowl without being one of the league's best passers. Three of them (McMahon, Dilfer and B.Johnson) did not just have GOOD defenses supporting them. They had arguably the BEST DEFENSES OF ALL TIME carrying them (1984 Bears, 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs). Doug Williams and Rypien both played for Joe Gibbs-led Redskins, which were stacked at every position - especially offensive line and defense. Hostetler (as we all painfully remember) was actually the backup quarterback to Simms - so the Giants technically didn't ride him through their whole Super Bowl season.

A lot depends on whether we lose out. We might not have to trade up. If we finish the season 5-11, I expect us to draft around #5-7. If we finish 6-10 or 7-9, we are probably looking at #15-20. After the Colts take Luck, we could have a legitimate shot at Matt Barkely, RGIII or even Landry Jones. The Vikings and Rams will draft before us, but will not be taking a quarterback. Neither will Philadelphia, Tampa Bay or Carolina. And I still have my doubts about Jacksonville going for a first round quarterback two years in a row. That means we are competing with Miami (4-9), Cleveland (4-9), Washington (4-9) and Kansas City (5-8) over the three remaining QBs.

This is what makes me mad when fans comment about Steve Johnson (or Lee Evans for that matter). What makes a receiver a #1 or a #2? Some receivers are fast. Some are big and tall. Some are good route runners. Some are small and shifty. Why do we try to determine a receiver's worth based on some arbitrary number that doesn't mean anything? Why can't we just recognize that a player has talent - and if we let that talent leave without replacing him with someone better - we are getting WORSE as a team. A lot of Bills fans determined that Lee Evans wasn't a #1 receiver, because he was one dimensional as a deep threat. Never mind that he was one of the best deep threats in the game. Evans was the same kind of receiver as someone like Mike Wallace, Desean Jackson or Greg Jennings. He wasn't the kind of guy that put up 1,000 yards and 10 touchdowns every season. But he still had value by stretching defenses and opening up passing lanes underneath. And... as it turns out, our offense has really missed having a deep threat on the field. Now, for Steve Johnson. We all know that he's not in the talent level of someone like Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald. But he is one of the best route runners in the game, and has been the only receiver in the NFL this year to get the best of Darrelle Revis (who we happen to play twice a year). Johnson is only in his second year as a starter and there is every reason to believe that he will get better (especially if the Bills can add a more accurate QB). If we let him go, that leaves us four options: 1) Replace him with someone currently on the roster like David Nelson or Naaman Roosevelt. This would make our offense significantly worse. 2) Replace him with a top free agent receiver like Dwayne Bowe, Vincent Jackson or Marques Colston. These guys will probably cost more than Johnson, so why not just keep Stevie? 3) Replace him with a lower free agent receiver like Robert Meachem or Pierre Garcon. This also would make our offense significantly worse. 4) Replace him with a draft pick. A rookie (even someone like Justin Blackmon) would probably take 2-3 years to develop, assuming he doesn't completely bust. That is just in time for them to hit free agency too and keep the endless cycle turning.

I don't see him as much of an upgrade. Our number one priority should be upgrading the quarterback position. That will make all the receivers better. Second, we need to re-sign Steve Johnson. Third, we should go after an elite option on the other side. Possibly someone like Dwayne Bowe in free agency (assuming KC lets him go).

I figured that Steve Johnson was gone after the Jets fiasco. After that game, Buffalo's front office guys had all their excuses lined up on why he wasn't worth a big contract. He drops passes. He doesn't have his head in the game. Etc, etc.... I'm fully expecting the Bills to publicly announce after the season that they "tried" to give Johnson a fair offer, then let him test free agency - where he will promptly sign with someone else. Smart fans will realize that we just let one of the league's top 15-20 receivers walk. There will also be morons who will support the Bills every move, saying idiotic crap like "he's not a #1 receiver" and "he doesn't have high character." Our starting receivers next year will then be David Nelson and Donald Jones.

Dareus is the only one who looks like he could be special. The rest of these guys look average/mediocre. Which unfortunately, does make it our best draft class in about 10 years.

Exactly. I've always been a big person on "SUPPORTING" the team no matter what. Lately, I've come to realize that I'm supporting nothing more than the name BUFFALO BILLS. > Am I supporting the ownership? They could care less about the fans and people of Buffalo. Their concern is the bottom line, not fielding a winner. Ralph Wilson has been laughing all the way to the bank for 50 years and we continue to show up a the stadium for his pathetic product. > Am I supporting the NFL? They don't care about the fans and hate that a team is still in Buffalo. Most of these billionaire owners would approve a move in 2 seconds flat if it meant adding more money to their pockets. > Am I supporting the players? Again, these players are all about the money too. They don't care about the Buffalo community. When free agency hits, most of these guys promise to be on the first bus out of town (unless of course we pay them a massive contract). Every year I buy NFL Sunday Ticket to watch the Bills games. I buy merchandise and occasionally fly to Buffalo to see a home game. So basically, all this SUPPORT is going to people that are taking advantage of me for my money.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I've finally come to that point. If we can't put together a front office committed to winning, I would rather the team just move and get it over with. I've been watching this team for over 30 years. I'm tired of holding out the slim hope that someday we win a Super Bowl, knowing in the back of my mind that it will never happen. I'm tired of watching other "small market" teams like the Pittsburgh Steelers dominate year in and year out, while our front office makes excuses for not aggressively assembling a winner. I'm tired of worrying whether the team will move, knowing that most of the NFL hates Buffalo (including Wilson), coaches don't want to come here, free agents don't want to sign here and our own players don't want to stay. I'm tired of the reaction I get every time someone finds out I'm a Bills fan (I've lived in Philadelphia and St. Louis most of my life). I'm tired of getting absolutely NO enjoyment out of my Sunday afternoon. Even early in the season, I couldn't completely enjoy it...because I knew the collapse was coming. I'm tired of the bad draft picks, the ridiculous ways this team finds to lose games, the terrible coaching decisions, etc.

What star wide receivers will be free agents?

It's hard to say, since we don't know which coaches will be fired when the season is over. Jeff Fisher is still on the unemployment line. He is a great defensive coach, but would probably be looking for a head coaching job first - and I would expect someone to give it to him. Jack Del Rio was recently fired by Jacksonville. He was a crappy head coach, but a lot of guys are better when they only have to focus on one side of the ball. He was pretty successful as a coordinator for the Panthers, and the Jags have always had a pretty good defense. Assuming Steve Spagnulo is fired as head coach of the St. Louis Rams (not a stretch), he could be the hottest name on the list of potential defensive coordinators. He spent several years as an assistant to Jim Johnson in Philadelphia, before taking over as the DC for the New York Giants. During those times, his teams had some of the NFL's strongest defenses.

I don't think people have unrealistic expectations. The problem is that after almost 2 years, they are seeing NO progress in the team. People keep saying things like "he's building the team the right way" by focusing on the draft and basically ignoring free agency. The "right way" is bringing in talent that can help us win. Who has Nix added to make us a better team? The best players on our team were already here when he arrived (Fitzpatrick, Fred Jackson, Steve Johnson, Wood, Levitre, Kyle Williams, George Wilson, Jairus Byrd). The players he drafted are making absolutely no impact. Most can't get on the field for an injury-prone team that finished 4-12 last year and is 5-7 this year.

Great question. I've often looked back over the last 15 years and thought the same thing. Donahoe was VERY AGRESSIVE. I think he made a lot of great decisions, but when his big moves didn't work out - it really set back the franchise. >> The Drew Bledsoe trade should have been a great move. TD cannot be blamed for it not working out. Unfortunately, when Bledsoe started to regress, it took down the whole team. It also gave our rivals in New England a jump on us in the division. >> The offensive line was a huge problem during his tenure here. Part of that was Bledsoe holding the ball. Another part was that TD picks like OT Mike Williams didn't work out. Again, how could he know that a 350 lb+ Top 5 lineman would bust? >> TD built a great defense through free agency (Spikes, Fletcher, Adams, Vincent, Milloy) and through the draft (Clements, Schobel, Crowell). For some reason though, this defense could NEVER get off the field on third down. >> He had two chances and never got it right on hiring the right head coach. Again, Greg Williams was one of the top prospects when TD nabbed him. He just didn't work out. Donahoe's decisions got worse the longer he was here too, which built up the ammunition to finally get rid of him. - Drafting Willis McGahee when there were bigger needs everywhere - Hiring a no-name like Mike Mularky - Letting Winfield and Pat Williams walk in free agency - Drafting JP Losman

I usually record the game, then re-watch it and pay special attention to the things I missed during live action (line play for one). With that said, I think Marcel Dareus has played fairly well throughout the season. Early in the season, when we had Kyle Williams playing next to him, there was a very strong push coming from up the middle and most of it was coming from Dareus. Since KW went out, Dareus is getting the majority of double teams and it's clear that he's overwhelmed. Not surprising for a rookie. The problem is, the rest of the Bills defense is too weak to take advantage of strong play by the tackles. There were many times that I saw Dareus blow his blocker into the backfield, only to watch the running back take an outside angle and find Shawn Merriman or Alex Carrington shoved too far inside to make a play. We need better linebackers.

To be honest, he really doesn't impress me either. I'm no NFL scout, but I like to think that I can spot talent when I see it. Last year, I really liked Dareus, Fairly and Von Miller, and thought all would be good picks for us. I don't think Upshaw looks to be in the same ballpark as any of those guys.

It could be close. The Colts have all but locked up the #1 pick. They are taking Andrew Luck or trading the pick to someone who will. That leaves Matt Barkley, Landry Jones and possibly Robert Griffin (although I've heard a lot of talk of him going back to school another year). Teams with worse/same records than us that won't be taking a quarterback: Minnesota, 2-10: Just drafted Christian Ponder in the first last year St. Louis, 2-10: Just drafted Sam Bradford two years ago Jacksonville, 3-8: Just drafted Blaine Gabbert last year. Carolina, 4-8: Cam Newton San Diego, 4-7: Philip Rivers Philadelphia, 4-8: Michael Vick Tampa Bay, 4-8: Josh Freeman Arizona, 5-7: Kevin Kolb Teams with worse/same records that could take a QB: Miami, 4-8 Cleveland, 4-8 Washington, 4-8 Kansas City, 5-7 Seattle, 5-7

Are you serious? Fitzpatrick played for two other teams (St. Louis and Cincinnati) and this is his third coach on the Buffalo Bills (Dick Jauron and Perry Fewell being the others), not to mention several offensive coordinators during those periods. This is Chandler's fourth NFL team. Jackson, Wood, Levitre, Bell and Johnson have all been Bills for their NFL careers. But like I said, that was under three different coaches and several coordinators. Fitzpatrick's best year: 2010 or 2011 Jackson: 2011 Johnson: 2010 Wood, Levitre and Bell: 2011 Chandler: 2011

Look at it this way. EVERY SINGLE offensive player on the Bills has played better and had more production in the last 2 years under Chan Gailey, than under any other offensive coordinator or head coach in their entire career. Ryan Fitzpatrick, Fred Jackson, Steve Johnson, Scott Chandler, Eric Wood, Andy Levitre, Demetrius Bell, etc.. Every single one. Also consider that most of the players on offense were either drafted in the 7th round or undrafted free agents. And at times this year, the offense has looked explosive and dominant. This tells me that Gailey is getting the ABSOLUTE MOST out of his players on offense. However... It is also painfully clear that Gailey knows NOTHING about the defensive side of the ball (other than how to attack it). The defense under Gailey/George Edwards has been one of the worst Buffalo has ever put on the football field. They can't rush the passer. They can't stop the run. They can't cover recivers. They let up tons of points and tons of yards. And that is despite getting the majority of help from the draft and free agency. Over the last 2 years, Kyle Williams has become a star, but he was already heading in that direction. Meanwhile, guys like Paul Posluszny, Jairus Byrd and Marcus Stroud have seen their production get worse. Promising rookies have failed to develop. It's becoming very clear that Gailey simply needs a TOP DEFENSIVE MIND to handle the other side of the ball. Plenty of successful teams are run that way. Mike McCarthy has Dom Capers. Sean Payton has Greg Williams. Jason Garrett has Rob Ryan. Gary Kubiak now has Wade Phillips (a move that has greatly improved the Texans by the way).